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With only 115k miles on it, if it were me, I would run a compression test and if the numbers were good, I would just do the Timing Chain. Clean out the oil pan like you have already done, replace the Oil Pump and see what my results were. I have rebuilt motors and bought motors. I prefer to just buy a motor because of the time and machine work needed to get a block ready is about the same price within a few dollars of each other.
To rebuild a motor, I allow about a month. Seems long but buying parts, machine work, assemble and disassemble, it all adds up when you are doing it after work and other life issues.
I rebuilt mine half in a living room, half in a gravel driveway. It took 2 months figuring out what parts to order, cleaning everything, machine shop drama and the demands of life.
I sorta wish I could do another right now with way more free time, closer to the machine shop and everything still fresh in my mind.
Ok so I definitely dislodged some crud that blocked a oil passage. Where does the oil go from the crank case? When I pulled the pan, it was suprisingly clean (other than chain guides and a small spring. Is there a diagram of the oil passages in the crank case? I'm thinking that it goes back to the pan from there. Wherever the blockage is it causes the oil light to come on. Sooo the crud would go where from the crank case?
Ok so I definitely dislodged some crud that blocked a oil passage. Where does the oil go from the crank case? When I pulled the pan, it was suprisingly clean (other than chain guides and a small spring. Is there a diagram of the oil passages in the crank case? I'm thinking that it goes back to the pan from there. Wherever the blockage is it causes the oil light to come on. Sooo the crud would go where from the crank case?
Are you asking about the general flow of oil starting at the pickup tube? The screen should protect most junk from going into the oil pump but stuff happens. It wouldn't take many little pebbles getting sucked in there to potentially cause a problem. The oil pickup tube connects to the bottom of the block on the driver's side, where a short internal passage brings it to the oil pump. After the pump, it makes a bend around the front passenger side of the block behind the engine mount. There's 2 threaded external holes plugging that passage, the first is just an oil plug, the second is for the oil pressure sensor that's turned on your dash light. The fact that it's on probably means either the pump failed or there's a blockage in that passage.
The oil starvation from either of those scenarios would cause the main and rod bearings to turn dry and you'd spin a bearing pretty quick, leading to the knocking sound you heard. That's my internet guess anyway.
I completely forgot to mention. After I bolted everything back up (valve cover). Initially before I noticed anything was wrong, it sounded like it was surging like the choke was on. Would oil starvation cause that?
I completely forgot to mention. After I bolted everything back up (valve cover). Initially before I noticed anything was wrong, it sounded like it was surging like the choke was on. Would oil starvation cause that?
Can't say for sure, but I doubt it. Your engine speed is controlled largely by the throttle plate and to a lesser degree the TPS and ECU. Neither of those care about oil pressure.
I still say try to hold off on speculation as much as possible till you get the pan off and manually check for play at the rotating assembly and rods. Then pull the caps and look at the bearings. Remember to pay close attention to direction of the caps and where they came from, they need to go in exactly the way they came out.
Everything else is just a guessing game till you're in there.
Can't say for sure, but I doubt it. Your engine speed is controlled largely by the throttle plate and to a lesser degree the TPS and ECU. Neither of those care about oil pressure.
I still say try to hold off on speculation as much as possible till you get the pan off and manually check for play at the rotating assembly and rods. Then pull the caps and look at the bearings. Remember to pay close attention to direction of the caps and where they came from, they need to go in exactly the way they came out.
Everything else is just a guessing game till you're in there.
Should they have any play at all? Or be solid in place?
Should they have any play at all? Or be solid in place?
I just checked the oil clearance specs and normal is 0.025-0.055m. Max clearance is 0.1mm so that's the most it should wiggle. Can't really plastigauge a worn bearing correctly, so just have to sort of guess, but yes a really small amount of play is OK, but if it feels quite loose you've got an issue, especially if one feels looser than the rest.
A tiny amount is normal, I think around 0.010". You shouldnt really be able to hear or see it move when you move the connecting rod, up down left and right. Basicly if you can tell it's moving it's way to much play, if you think it might have moved after trying it a dozen times it's probably tight enough.
So whats the word on that spring, was it off the rockers, the tensioner, the oil pump by pass, or do you just have not so funny friends?
So whats the word on that spring, was it off the rockers, the tensioner, the oil pump by pass, or do you just have not so funny friends?
I forgot about that, yeah let's see a picture of this spring!
I found a garden hose o-ring down in my oil pan, along with the mangled chain tensioner spring (I'm guessing the chain grabbed it), chain tensioner arm, broken guides and a bunch of broken aluminum fragments. Here's a link so you'll know if it was from the tensioner:
I forgot about that, yeah let's see a picture of this spring!
I found a garden hose o-ring down in my oil pan, along with the mangled chain tensioner spring (I'm guessing the chain grabbed it), chain tensioner arm, broken guides and a bunch of broken aluminum fragments. Here's a link so you'll know if it was from the tensioner:
Jeeeeeeeez! I have a ever so slight movement on all of them. They all seem the same. That's all I've been able to do today.(raining)
I forgot about that, yeah let's see a picture of this spring!
...
oh wow. That chain groove in the round bit of housing is where the crank was throwing the chain if I am reading the image right. Epic, you better have a build thread I need to read.
OK so if you have some debris resembling that carnage above, say inch wide and 1 / 16 the. That'll be the tensioner. You still verify there is no slack in the passenger side of the timing chain, and visually confirm there is a tensioner. Should be do able from the bottom or top, in case you don't want to lay in a rain puddle.
So yeah...all I have is plastic chain guides and a small spring in the oil pan. Also I opened the valve cover back up to find that the sludge that was there now gone. What in the world? When I opened it the first time did it all break loose? Now I'm wondering if I did indeed clog some drain holes back to the pan, how would that starve the engine at the sensor?
So yeah...all I have is plastic chain guides and a small spring in the oil pan. Also I opened the valve cover back up to find that the sludge that was there now gone. What in the world? When I opened it the first time did it all break loose? Now I'm wondering if I did indeed clog some drain holes back to the pan, how would that starve the engine at the sensor?
sorry wil post pic of spring tonight. (Work is crazy) I run a fitness center and New Years is always nuts.
So yeah...all I have is plastic chain guides and a small spring in the oil pan. Also I opened the valve cover back up to find that the sludge that was there now gone. What in the world? When I opened it the first time did it all break loose? Now I'm wondering if I did indeed clog some drain holes back to the pan, how would that starve the engine at the sensor?
The return flow to the oil pickup isn't clogged, the front side returns via the timing cover the rear side drains back thru a large whole on the passengers side that is about an inch and a half wide. For these to have starved the pump is very unlikely because the head could not hold the full gallon. You'd of noticed it dump when you pulled the VC.
You really need to post photos so we know what's going on. You say it was full of sludge, do you mean the oil wells on top of the head under the cam shaft lobes, but now it's dry. Sludge really isn't mobile so to speak since it is quite thick and sticky. If the wells were full of sludge the cam lobes would have scrapped it out and threw it against the valve cover and it would still be there. My assumption is you looked at the resivores and expected those puddles to be draining back into the oil pan which they do not do. With the pump not providing oil pressure you likey aren't getting flow this high, if your are getting flow at all, so the resivores have ran dry from attempted startups.
you have already cleaned the oil pump pickup tube, so you can't flow test it to verify it was or was not plugged.
Really the odds are that your oil pump is damaged. The other stuff we keep asking you to check is to determine what else is damaged from the oil pump failing
The return flow to the oil pickup isn't clogged, the front side returns via the timing cover the rear side drains back thru a large whole on the passengers side that is about an inch and a half wide.
You really need to post photos so we know what's going on. You say it was full of sludge, do you mean the oil wells on top of the heaf
Will post some pics tonight. I started all of this just to change the valve cover gasket. Opened it up and seen hard cakey deposits with a small chunk that was loose. I grabbed it and tossed it out. The bulk of the deposits were under the rocker arms. I was tempted to try to get them out but didn't want to run it to a mess. These chunks were about the size of a .50 piece. Fast forward after all the problems dropped the oil pan and opened the valve cover back up and the chunks were gone from under the rockers. If these chunks made it back to the oil pan there is no way they made it through the pump screen. However if the rockers broke them up I suppose they may have gotten through? Very strange under the valve cover looks pretty clean now. No deposits.
01-01-2017, 10:19 PM
