Intermittent No Start Problem
05-25-2017, 04:55 PM
#1
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Intermittent No Start Problem
On a prior post I admitted I’m not fond of chasing down electrical gremlins. “Hi I’m L5wolvesf and I’ am electrically challenged” And intermittent ones drive me batty. But in this case I ain’t it driving at all.
Vehicle: 1984 Pickup 22R 169k, battery is older but has been very reliable.
Problem: Turn the key and I get lights (charge, seat belt, e brake, oil light), buzzer etc. – but no starter turning, or engaging and no audible electrical click sounds. It’s Simon & Garfunkle’s Sounds of Silence.
History: It has done this 2 times before this. After shut off for a brief-ish while; 1st time (2013) stop at the Post Office (5 - 10 minutes), 2nd time – 2016 don’t really recall the circumstances now. This time got home from a job, 3 hours later no start.
When it happened the first time I tried a couple things; checked for a connection being loose and did the tap on the starter with a hammer thing – no dice. Since I didn’t have much history on the truck I just did the starter (Post Office parking lot) – still no dice. It did bump start and ran fine. But, when I got home – no start. A year later I decided to try it again – nothing. I checked connections again and found the ground cable from the battery to the body was frayed and fixed that. It fired up – yay! 2nd time in 2016 I don’t really recall much since it happened one day and was fine the next AM and I hadn’t touched it. Been driving it ever since, but I park on a slope when I can.
Other: It seems to happen in hot months; 1st time August 2013 (very hot day 100+ – long walk home), 2nd time summer 2016, today late May (about 90 degrees). Don’t know if this really means anything.
After the first 2 times it ran just fine as if nothing had happened. It isn’t running hot or doing anything unusual. So my question is . . . WTF?
Thoughts, experiences, or a free beer. I’ll accept any of those but prefer the first 2 right now.
Thank you
Vehicle: 1984 Pickup 22R 169k, battery is older but has been very reliable.
Problem: Turn the key and I get lights (charge, seat belt, e brake, oil light), buzzer etc. – but no starter turning, or engaging and no audible electrical click sounds. It’s Simon & Garfunkle’s Sounds of Silence.
History: It has done this 2 times before this. After shut off for a brief-ish while; 1st time (2013) stop at the Post Office (5 - 10 minutes), 2nd time – 2016 don’t really recall the circumstances now. This time got home from a job, 3 hours later no start.
When it happened the first time I tried a couple things; checked for a connection being loose and did the tap on the starter with a hammer thing – no dice. Since I didn’t have much history on the truck I just did the starter (Post Office parking lot) – still no dice. It did bump start and ran fine. But, when I got home – no start. A year later I decided to try it again – nothing. I checked connections again and found the ground cable from the battery to the body was frayed and fixed that. It fired up – yay! 2nd time in 2016 I don’t really recall much since it happened one day and was fine the next AM and I hadn’t touched it. Been driving it ever since, but I park on a slope when I can.
Other: It seems to happen in hot months; 1st time August 2013 (very hot day 100+ – long walk home), 2nd time summer 2016, today late May (about 90 degrees). Don’t know if this really means anything.
After the first 2 times it ran just fine as if nothing had happened. It isn’t running hot or doing anything unusual. So my question is . . . WTF?
Thoughts, experiences, or a free beer. I’ll accept any of those but prefer the first 2 right now.
Thank you
05-25-2017, 06:15 PM
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Im in the same circle as you. I cant read a wiring diagram to save my life but can decifer architect drawings, been able to engineer popular boats from scratch and play a mean tune with spoons. Sorry i cant help but you have my support.
P.S. maybe get a camelback with some cold brews in it in case there is another episode.
P.S. maybe get a camelback with some cold brews in it in case there is another episode.
05-26-2017, 03:19 AM
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After 18 years of occasional intermittent start I recently added a wire from the start switch in the steering column then spliced it in at the start wire near the starter, the small wire. Works perfect 100%. Since neutral switch is bypassed it starts in any gear(auto trans) but that's a small price to pay.
05-26-2017, 06:58 AM
#4
Ray did a very clear write up for this, it should not be very hard to find. If I remember correctly, it has good pictures and will include "how to use a multimeter".
I did a less spectacular one on cleaning old switch contacts.
In short, in most cases, the current used to energize the starter solenoid flows through about 12-16 feet of not very heavy gauge wire and several switches. Your fault problem is there somewhere. The simple fix is to add a new relay.
I did a less spectacular one on cleaning old switch contacts.
In short, in most cases, the current used to energize the starter solenoid flows through about 12-16 feet of not very heavy gauge wire and several switches. Your fault problem is there somewhere. The simple fix is to add a new relay.
05-26-2017, 08:05 AM
#5
Ray did a very clear write up for this...
In short, in most cases, the current used to energize the starter solenoid flows through about 12-16 feet of not very heavy gauge wire and several switches. Your fault problem is there somewhere. The simple fix is to add a new relay.
In short, in most cases, the current used to energize the starter solenoid flows through about 12-16 feet of not very heavy gauge wire and several switches. Your fault problem is there somewhere. The simple fix is to add a new relay.
The fix that covers ALL from 1984 to 1988 with 22R or 22R-E is here. For those without the starter relay, I think a simple 30-amp Bosch-style automotive relay would work. I plan to run one (although my wiring is already fixed) to test it.
Greetings from the foot of Mount Rainier... Climbing 27th to 29th
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 05-26-2017 at 08:06 AM.
05-26-2017, 11:35 AM
#6
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Im in the same circle as you. I cant read a wiring diagram to save my life but can decifer architect drawings, been able to engineer popular boats from scratch and play a mean tune with spoons. Sorry i cant help but you have my support.
P.S. maybe get a camelback with some cold brews in it in case there is another episode.
P.S. maybe get a camelback with some cold brews in it in case there is another episode.
and can drink beer at the same time. As the boys from Bartles & James used to say "Thank you for your support".
BTW, have you figured out my screen name yet?
05-26-2017, 11:38 AM
#7
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After 18 years of occasional intermittent start I recently added a wire from the start switch in the steering column then spliced it in at the start wire near the starter, the small wire. Works perfect 100%. Since neutral switch is bypassed it starts in any gear(auto trans) but that's a small price to pay.
Ray did a very clear write up for this, it should not be very hard to find. If I remember correctly, it has good pictures and will include "how to use a multimeter".
I did a less spectacular one on cleaning old switch contacts.
In short, in most cases, the current used to energize the starter solenoid flows through about 12-16 feet of not very heavy gauge wire and several switches. Your fault problem is there somewhere. The simple fix is to add a new relay.
I did a less spectacular one on cleaning old switch contacts.
In short, in most cases, the current used to energize the starter solenoid flows through about 12-16 feet of not very heavy gauge wire and several switches. Your fault problem is there somewhere. The simple fix is to add a new relay.
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05-26-2017, 11:44 AM
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ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE OF EXCESSIVE POWER LOSS IN THE WIRING, AND THE IGNITION SWITCH CONTACTS THAT WERE BEAT-UP BY HIGH CURRENT NEEDED TO ENERGIZE THE START SOLENOID.
The fix that covers ALL from 1984 to 1988 with 22R or 22R-E is here. For those without the starter relay, I think a simple 30-amp Bosch-style automotive relay would work. I plan to run one (although my wiring is already fixed) to test it.
Greetings from the foot of Mount Rainier... Climbing 27th to 29th
The fix that covers ALL from 1984 to 1988 with 22R or 22R-E is here. For those without the starter relay, I think a simple 30-amp Bosch-style automotive relay would work. I plan to run one (although my wiring is already fixed) to test it.
Greetings from the foot of Mount Rainier... Climbing 27th to 29th
The only question I have is, your write up says "you only hear the COR click". With my situation I hear nothing (zip, zilch, nada).
Is it likely to be the same issue. I mean the wiring is only 30 years old.
Have fun getting high . . . er.
05-26-2017, 05:36 PM
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If a wiring diagram isn't too spaghetti like I can handle that. But all the sensors and other compu electro kills me. I play the . . . radio and can drink beer at the same time.
As the boys from Bartles & James used to say "Thank you for your support".
BTW, have you figured out my screen name yet?
and can drink beer at the same time.As the boys from Bartles & James used to say "Thank you for your support".
BTW, have you figured out my screen name yet?
05-27-2017, 04:17 PM
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05-27-2017, 11:12 PM
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I have never had a COR to fail, rock solid component in experience. I have cleaned the contacts in the Starter Relay and replaced the contacts in the Starter and that does help. Go with RADs fix and no further problems with the No Start Problem.
The other area to look at is if the Clutch Switch located on the fire wall is failing.
The other area to look at is if the Clutch Switch located on the fire wall is failing.
05-28-2017, 07:10 AM
#15
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I have never had a COR to fail, rock solid component in experience. I have cleaned the contacts in the Starter Relay and replaced the contacts in the Starter and that does help. Go with RADs fix and no further problems with the No Start Problem.
The other area to look at is if the Clutch Switch located on the fire wall is failing.
The other area to look at is if the Clutch Switch located on the fire wall is failing.
05-28-2017, 07:22 AM
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So I've started in on doing the starter relay upgrade and have come across what may be another issue. My Fusible Link wire.
On the right side of the pic it looks somewhat corroded. It is blue-ish colored just where the insulation is missing, next to the remnant of a blue insulator, on the right side of the pic – it’s hard to see in the pic. It also looks like it may have been replaced a couple times given the number of insulator remains colors - blue and yellow (on the left).
I don't know for sure if this is THE cause of the starting problem but it doesn't look right so I want to make it right.
Also, how far back from the break (on the right) should I go? There is some brown looking “stuff” there that I don’t recognize as insulation or something else.
I have checked the continuity of the wire down to the starter and it reads out at 0.00 - so that is good.
So, I checked with the local O'Reilly and found there are different sizes of Fusible Link Wire.
My question is - what size/gauge is it supposed to be on an '84 base model pickup R22?
They have 14, 16 and 18 ga
On the right side of the pic it looks somewhat corroded. It is blue-ish colored just where the insulation is missing, next to the remnant of a blue insulator, on the right side of the pic – it’s hard to see in the pic. It also looks like it may have been replaced a couple times given the number of insulator remains colors - blue and yellow (on the left).
I don't know for sure if this is THE cause of the starting problem but it doesn't look right so I want to make it right.
Also, how far back from the break (on the right) should I go? There is some brown looking “stuff” there that I don’t recognize as insulation or something else.
I have checked the continuity of the wire down to the starter and it reads out at 0.00 - so that is good.
So, I checked with the local O'Reilly and found there are different sizes of Fusible Link Wire.
My question is - what size/gauge is it supposed to be on an '84 base model pickup R22?
They have 14, 16 and 18 ga
Last edited by L5wolvesf; 05-28-2017 at 07:24 AM.
05-29-2017, 06:34 PM
#17
Sorry not sure about wire gage. Fusible Link stuff confuses me as well. How about measuring the diameter of the wire? OR call Summit Racing. People there should know better. Or Toyota Parts Deal.
Have fun getting high . . . er.
05-30-2017, 04:56 AM
#19
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I don't think your truck has the C.O.R. That's for running the electric fuel pump.
Sorry not sure about wire gage. Fusible Link stuff confuses me as well. How about measuring the diameter of the wire? OR call Summit Racing. People there should know better. Or Toyota Parts Deal.
LOL! Camp where we woke up at 1145 PM last night to start climb to summit... Made it! Great weather, tough climb.
Sorry not sure about wire gage. Fusible Link stuff confuses me as well. How about measuring the diameter of the wire? OR call Summit Racing. People there should know better. Or Toyota Parts Deal.
LOL! Camp where we woke up at 1145 PM last night to start climb to summit... Made it! Great weather, tough climb.
So I went to the local O’Reilly and spoke to a guy who seemed to know his stuff and got some good sounding info on the fusible link wire size. He suggested 16 or 14 ga and absolutely not 12 ga (too big). I went with 14 and changed it out to see what happens. After cleaning up the mess and seeing that only 2/3rds of the semi-corroded F-link was attached, I put the new F-link on and the truck fired up no problem.
But (there’s always a “but”) I still don’t know if I solved the intermittent no start problem. Maybe it was just the link, maybe not – I don’t really know. Since I have the relay thing half way done I figure I will finish it. But I would really like to know what the problem was.
Yes, no electric pump (22R). So would my symptoms, no start (intermittently), but without any clicks or other noise (except my exasperation) could have been the relay thing OR would that have been a symptom of the F-link being not all there?
Great camp pic and great view – I am officially impressed and jealous. Are your legs and/or lungs burning? Making snow angels can be tiring.
Oh, I’m gonna leave flg8r22 in suspense for a bit longer
05-30-2017, 04:57 AM
#20
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I kinda needed the link “now” (holiday weekend of course) so I checked the local parts stores first – as I mentioned above. I did a search here for “fusible link gauge” and didn’t see a size chart – that would have been nice. But the ones at O’Reilly don’t have amperage ratings just gauge size. I’ll try to find the size chart. Thank you.
