83pingpong

I searched and found stuff for later models, but I didn't find anything on 1st gen. so here goes...

The horn is dead. This is the three spoke steering wheel with bar-shaped horn buttons in the spokes. The center is a ~3" plastic disc covering the mounting bolt. I'd like to verify grounding upon button push... and find the horn wire from the column.

Before I crawl under the dash, Does anyone know the color of the horn wire and where it comes out from behind the steering column? This wire should be getting grounded in the column with button push, and I'd like to use it for the relay on the new dual tone Fiamm horns!

If the contacts are bad or need a shim in the steering column...
I think I just need to pry off the center plastic hub cover, but I sure don't want to crack it (30 years of Arizona heat). Is it easy to pry out? two,three or four tabs holding it in there?

Inferno451

A very common problem is the contact behind the steering wheel wearing out. There's a spring loaded brass pin that rides on a circular disc on the back of the wheel. That pin often wears out as you turn and gets too short to make contact. I just fixed this on my roommate's truck by removing the steering wheel, taking that pin out, adding some solder to the tip of it, and putting it back in. Free fix as long as you have a soldering iron and some solder. Good luck!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

i take it you have traced the problem back to the switch and you horns and fuse are good as well as the ground.

Your looking for a White Black stripe wire. for your ground it goes to the ground on the left door post.

83pingpong

Thanks. This is very helpful. I have heard about the contact in the steering column on later models, but didn't know it was in 1st gen.

I tested at the horn and there's no power. Fuse is fine. (edit...WRONG!-I needed to wiggle the probe in the connector to contact!) I was under the impression that the buttons ground the line from the horn to complete the circuit. I can use that for the direct battery powered relay once I verify it is working. I'll just ground the powered relay through the horn button. So I will find the black/white line and see if it gets grounded or connected to horn wire (grounding horn wire) when button is pushed. I can rewire the whole thing if I find a bad wire, but somehow I suspect I'll be in the column working on the contacts! Seems inevitable!

KryptoRoxx

I have the same problem in my truck but the previous owner disconnected it at the horn. Look in front of the radiator and you see it. I haven't gone any further than that though.

83pingpong

Yup. That's where I tested the wires while my "assistant" pressed the horn button. I think that it gets grounded ((EDIT:WRONG-column contact fix below!)), and should have power there regardless. Not sure, but all I want is to find out if the contacts in the steering column work, or fix it so I can use it with the powered relay on my aftermarket Fiamm dual set.

Uh, not much room between the front panel next to the radiator and the grill to mount these horns. They are'e that big, but bigger than the OEM. It will take some engineering. I don't want to put them inside the engine compartment. They'll be louder if I can mount them where the original horn is, that's for certain.

Inferno451

The horn on my 4runner is a switched ground type. If neither of the contacts at the plug have voltage, there's your problem. You have an open circuit somewhere. One wire to the horn should have constant power and the other one grounds through the horn buttons on the wheel.

17toyotaman

^^ What he said, and mine are probably different than yours but I put some FIAMM horns from a lincoln in my first gen with no issues on space, but like I said yours are most likely different.

83pingpong

If the steering column contacts are good, I'll be SO lucky. I could see if I can power the horn directly, and then trace the problem back through the wires.

But...if the horn buttons still ground the horn, I should be able to use it to ground the new relay, and power the new horns directly. If so, won't matter why there's no power at the horn! So maybe I can just install a new fused power line and fast track this install. Well, not until this weekend

83pingpong

There's power permanently at the OEM horn connector green with white stripe as it should have (horn/flasher fuse OK, wire good).

The switched (horn button) ground is definitely failed (green with red stripe). It doesn't ground when horn button pressed. I went ahead and installed the horns and made the wiring harness. New fused power for the high amp side of the relay, and got it all ready.

So, I was able to use the OEM connector for powering the switch side of the relay...transiently grounding the other side on the relay activates the horns as it should.

Obviously, I have a bad horn button connection in the steering column. I was hoping to avoid that. Oh well.

Lots of room in there and it was easy once I took off the plastic grill to work. I found a place for the second horn on the other side next to the air intake port. Out of the way and mounted solid:

Here is the OEM connector side:


Here's the other side:


I drilled a hole for this one, grounding the post directly, and took less room.

Good and LOUD!

83pingpong

Inferno451...I shimmed the ring instead because it was thick and hard enough not to flex. Worked fine. When you are doing this kind of thing, a couple of pics can be useful for the next patient.

1. Remove the six screws behind the steering column (on the spokes). That lets you pull off the three spoke horn button piece. Note: removing the cover from the middle of the steering wheel is not necessary.

Disconnect the green grounding wire and set aside.



2. 19mm socket for the steering wheel mounting bolt. Mine was not very tight. No problem.

3. Use a puller to put some stress on the wheel, and tap it with a hammer... it will pop loose.

The back piece has the contact ring. Mine was showing some signs of oxidation-obviously NOT in contact with the sprung post in the column!

4. Remove the contact ring (three little screws), clean it, apply dielectric grease, and mount it back in place with a few mm of washers underneath it:



Here it is, cleaned, shimmed, ready to go back on. You can see the six screw recesses that hold bottom/top together, sandwiching the steel steering wheel spokes.



The horn works perfectly now, of course.

Oh ya forgot to mention... when it is opened up (steering wheel off), you can test the horn circuit, by connecting the sprung post to the center steering column bolt with a wire. And, mine has hazards/horn on same fuse-hazards working, horn should be powered too. Good to know.

83

Thanks for those photos! I'll try that this fall.

One good piece of advice on removing the steering wheel: if you don't have a puller, which most of us probably don't, the way you're going to want to do it is to take the nut all the way off, then pull real hard until the wheel pops off.

This is exactly how to do it, except that if you don't want to hit yourself in the face when the wheel comes loose after all your pulling, leave the nut on. Loosen it, but keep a few threads still on there, so when it pops loose, it hits the nut and not your face.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Here is another problem that happens with the horn for a fix. Use a spent .22 shell.
The way I fix this to take a small flat blade around the edge of the brass ring and raise it a little bit and slip some paper gasket under the brass ring. It has worn itself down and not making contact with the 11 oclock post.

Here is a better picture of the Brass Ring and my pointer finger is what makes contact to sound the horn. I just clean them with some fine grit sandpaper.




Got the horn to working. I used a .22 shell to make the contact to the steering wheel. I found this on Yotatech and like it better then how I used to fix my horns. I have it listed on my 88 4Runners build thread for more details about getting the horn to work on the first page.


Another way to test to see if horn works is touch the spring to the shaft.
Copied
Another thing I got fixed on my 91 was the horn. I know this happens alot and hopefully this will help some in the future. Pull the steering wheel with a Steering Wheel Puller that you can usually rent from a parts store for free. Then check it by touching the brass spring in the 11 oclock postion. I just used my wrench. If it honks it is most likely the brass ring on the back side of the wheel. Not the best picture but you should get the idea.

83pingpong

These Fiamm horns are nice and LOUD!!! Pokey Sunday drivers and retirees get the message clearly!

83Toyota88

iTrader: (1)

My horn is not working. I have the two spoke steering wheel with a rectangle center with two buttons. Pulled the cover off and measured to voltage where the button contacts the plate thing. I only get 8V but my battery reads 12V. Not sure what to do with this voltage drop. I don't know if I need to pull my whole middle piece out and stack washers behind it like you did or not.

suncomb1

If you have a tilt steering column you could have a broken wire (famous for this problem). If wires are okay, check the contact and spring in the steering wheel / column as others have suggested. Do not power the horn button with 12 + volts, it will dead short.

83Toyota88

iTrader: (1)

I do have the tilt steering. I will have to pull the cover off and check the wires for damage. Thanks!

83pingpong

There is a wire in the steering column coming from the horns (the ground wire for the horns). If touching that wire to ground (metal in the steering column) does not activate the horns, see if the horns work with direct power and ground up front at the horn. If the horn doesn't work there, replace them. Need to test there up front to be sure. A relay setup like I did, with power going through the relay to the horns right up front is best way to maintain voltage and amperage.

Redneck1120

I got a 82 pickup 4wd and my horn only works when the steering wheel is turned a certain way... anyone know what this could be?

suncomb1

The wire to the horn button is a Ground wire and should not have voltage on it (except for a small amount of Potential voltage).