Ditchpig

I am now looking to continue my Toyota building journey and I'm turning now to the 22R block in my garage and wanting to make something of it. Where is the best place for info on what needs to be done in order to create a 20/22R hybrid engine? Any good sites? thanks!!!

Ditchpig

I guess I should tell people that I have a dual row timing chained 22R block and a 1979 20R head. I'm just wondering what kind of machining needs to be done

DudeBud

get a hold of kyle_22r he should know. i think all you need is a early block with pop up pistons,20r intake and if your 20r and some 20r heads dont have fuel pump in the head so you would need a electric pump

slacker

iTrader: (1)

any block from 84 <---down .... and any 20r head will fit , along with the duel row timing chain .

20r truck heads had the "cut-outs " for the fuel pump , and also the "bosses" for the power steering . Cars didnt (celica and coronas)


you'll have to use the 20r intake the 20r head ... but the exhaust manifolds are the same .


there is NO machining necessary ... it is a direct bolt on , just use the 22r head gasket .

I did this on my "WHITE KNIGHT" and it was excellent for many many years .....

kyle_22r

wasn't a car vs truck thing -- it was early vs late! heads before late '78 didn't have the fuel pump boss or the front power steering pump boss(though they had the side ones?).

i used the head from my '79 truck, as it has a power steering pump mount(no worries about the fuel pump for me, '80 was the only year that the 20R actually used a mechanical pump, so mine's in the tank. your 22R pump will work.)

i had the deck resurfaced, then paid the machine shop to do about $100 worth of work to the intake ports near the valve seats and machine them for engnbldr's oversized 20R valves. also had them install new bronze guides and all new springs/locks/retainers(bought EB's top end kit and 268c cam as well). then i added a thorley header and offenhauser intake with a weber carb, and the thing screams! it's a real blast to drive, though it does suck the gas, albeit not as bad as a 3VZE. actually have a hard time getting it to run rich enough, i needed to install a double accelerator pump nozzle to keep it from bogging and popping when i mash the pedal to the floor and kick open the secondary.

Ditchpig

Okay, so there is no decking or machining done to make them fit then? Cool. I actually have a 1978 20R from a Celica in my 1979 4x4 right now, but I've secured a '79 20R head and intake so things will go a little better. The head that I have has the mechanical fuel pump boss and a boss for the power steering that I REALLY need, and I'm currently using a electric fuel pump in the engine bay with my set up now. I've got an older 22R block, but is there anyway to determine what year? It already has the dual row timing chain on it, as well as everything attatched to the block, like water pump, alternator.... just no head/intake/cam... y'know? I'm planning on having my current 20R get me through firewood season and build the other 22/20R engine during the winter months. After I have my wood and the truck goes into the garage to be taken apart all over again and have all the seals changed and that maintenance crap done, I'll put the new motor into the truck and all will be wonderful again!!

slacker

iTrader: (1)

so on a 20r CAR head .... I know the bosses are there for the P/S ... but are they drilled and tapped ?

I dont think so, but now i'm wondering ???? ... this was the part I was trying to explain (not so good I guess)

I had a head from a 79 celica ... back in the day ... all prepped and done for the swap , with NO threads for the power steering . I checked a few others as well , and samething ... I had to find a TRUCK head .


hmm maybe its a co-incidance ?

kyle_22r

probably a wierd coincidence, doesn't sound like something that happens with toyotas. usually they're pretty good keeping everything standard, but there are exceptions. maybe you just got into a bunch of oddballs.

r3b0rn

well been following your thread for a while been curious is the 22r / 20r hybrid really worth it the local junkyard has like 4 older toyotas with their stock 20r's still in there unmolested ive been contemplating ripping off one of the heads and intakes before they crush them or someone else gets the idea

Hawaiioutdoors

The 20R head is different from the 22R heads. The 20R had open combustion chambers and the 22R had a swirl-inducing chamber (for cleaner emissions). The intake ports on the 20R were round, and rectangular on the 22R. Exhaust ports were identical round design.
The best set-up is achieved by starting with a 20R head and a 22R early block.
http://www.toysport.com/ has some good info in thier Tech section

4XTOYOTAX4

Just a little bit of personal experience, I have found that most (all?) 22r rockers are aluminum while most (all?) 20r rockers are steel. I kept the 22r rockers on the 20r head to save stress on the valve train and lighten things up. Also if you are planning to swap cams you will need to have the rocker arm rail mounts cut down by half of the reuduced base line of the cam to keep the geometry right.

kyle_22r

the 20R engines all came with steel rockers, as did '81 and '82 22R engines. i've never had an issue with cams, i have an early 22R rocker assembly with aluminum rockers installed. i've never noticed any difference with the assemblies -- from what i've heard, the geometry thing was with the valve stem lengths.

the combustion chambers are nearly identical, it's the intake ports that make the difference. 22R heads have a swirl ledge for improved low end torque and emissions that the air/fuel mix has to go around, while the 20R head's intake ports give the mix a straight shot into the cylinder.

Hawaiioutdoors

I have a question regarding putting in larger valves in a 20R head. What size valves are good to install on a 4x4. When I was younger my older brother built up a toyota mini 4x2 street racer. with the large valves, large cam, porting polishing ect... I'm working on a '84 4x4, I want alot of low and middle end power. I wont be running it all out at top RPM like a drag racer. I read that installing too large valves will decrease air velocity hurting the low and middle RPM power range... I guess what I am asking is... What is the best 22R engine build-up recipe for the money....For a daily driver/weekend trail rig?

kyle_22r

even if you install EB's oversized 20R valves, they'll still be smaller than stock 22R valves by a bit. since the 20R's ports are smaller, you often get a little more low end torque as it increases velocity into the cylinders.

4XTOYOTAX4

Most aftermarket cams have a smaller base lobe than factory this causes the angle that the rocker meets the valve stem to change. Not a big deal but its something to consider. The round runners on the 20r create more intake velocity at lower rpms and helps keep the fuel mixture suspended in addition to the stuff kyle mentioned.

DeMented Toys

Someone needs to do a tech write up on this.

scooper

I just recently did hybrid build in my 80. It originally came with a 20r that bit the dust. I purchased a used 22r and installed it and it bit the dust after a few months.

Everything is a direct swap, use the 22r block, 20r head, 22r exhaust/header, 20r intake and 20r carb if you don't have the adapter for the better 22r carb, or even a Weber 32/36.
The only downside for using the 20r carb is that it is a water choke and you may have to modify your existing hoses to make it work. Mine works just fine, i drive it daily and off road it every other weekend at the local clay/mud pits. I'm heavy on the right foot and the hybrid loves it. It loves the RPMs and the torque curves kick in alot sooner than with the 22r head. You will not gain any power at all. Just an earlier torque curve, which helps spin those tires easier. My truck will burn out up to and into 3rd gear and it's only a stock 4spd now. Before i was lucky to catch a tire into 2nd.

I used a "crawler" cam from engnbldr.com and gasket kit.
You can also use your 20r pistons/rods if you need to replace one. Save them, I'm glad that I did.

Head I used was double row already, I used the 22r rocker assembly as well in the 20r head, no mods needed. I set my valve lash while cold to .007 and .0011, then let it warm up and eventually set it to .005 and .009. Not a noise from the engine. Any questions just ask, I'll be happy to help anyway I can.

whitley87

i understand this is an old thread but i am in the final stages of building the hybrid and i have run into just a couple of little problems. i am running a celica head because i didnt know any better and that what came in the truck when i bought it. im not to sure about stock 22r or 20r but with this hybrid i found that it is an interference motor. which means u cant mess up the timing or you will smash the valve to the piston. that being said there are a ton of coolant bypass lines that i am going to have fun rerouting. the only other issue that i am having at this time is that i cant get the truck to start. it turns over, sparks, and other wise sounds normal. i am running propane and have never run propane before. i have tried taking the propane mixer off and just shooting starter fluid and i still cant get a response one time it sounded like it kinda backfired thru the carb. so my timing is dead on. i have it on the number 1 cylinder on the compression strock and still nothing. this is my first toyota and the first toyota engine i have ever touched so im a newbie when it comes to this. any help would be awesome

xxxtreme22r

if it backfired through the carb then I would say either ign timing is off or you have the plug wires crossed. Assuming you know for sure the cam to crank timing is right.

whitley87

well i am 99 percent sure that the cam and crank timing it perfect because number 1 cylinder is at the top of its range and neither vavle is open. now like i said i am a newb to this so the valve that should open up next would be the exhaust correct? also i have the plug wires hooked up correctly as according to haynes manual. if my cam and crank timing was off other than a 180 degrees wouldnt the pistons hit the vavles?