osv

sounds like you need a lesson in fuel injector technology... welcome to the 21st century

"Engines with a single intake valve will generally require a narrow cone or pencil spray pattern, while multi-valve heads (the 20v 1.8t, for example) work better with a wide or split cone configuration. Some applications will benefit from an offset cone, which is similar to the narrow cone pattern, but fuel is injected at an angle directing it towards the back of the intake valve. As injector technology advanced, the pencil and v spray patterns pretty much became obsolete, as the narrow/wide/split cone spray patterns offered better fuel atomization, increasing efficiency and reducing emissions by improving flame propagation in the combustion chamber.

Ideally, you will want the widest, most diffused spray pattern with the best atomization without spraying the walls of the intake manifold runners and intake ports. Fuel spraying on the walls of the runners/ports will condense, drip onto the back of the valve, and slowly run into the combustion chamber, resulting in imprecise control of the injection event and an inefficient burn . When choosing a fuel injector, choosing the correct spray pattern for your application can dramatically improve idle and cold start and reduce emissions and misfires."

so the injectors in question are indeed superior technology, but is the v-spray pattern right for the engine design? i'm a 22re guy, so I can't answer that for the engine in question... is the spray pattern hitting the intake wall?

despite the spray pattern, why do they seem to work better for some people, but not others? air density at altitude is going to be a bigger factor, so what handles the air flow measurement? primitive afm... I would try adjusting that, per the above suggestion.

here is a frame grab of the spray pattern differences:

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

Well this turned into one hell of an enlightening thread. Good job guys!

osv

I think that there could be a counter-argument for the spray pattern question.

the 22re is a batch-fired system, which means that all injectors fire at the same time, regardless of the position of the valve... if the 3vze is batch-fired as well, which it probably is(?), it's going to be spraying against valves that aren't fully opened, or even completely closed, so how much is spray pattern going to matter?

if you are new to this, modern efi fires sequentially, it's timed to inject fuel with respect to the stroke of the valve, for much of the rpm band... and beyond that is direct injection, which as I understand it fires fuel right into the cylinder itself, not against the back of the valve.

batch vs. sequential is supposed to provide equal h.p. at wide open throttle, they went to sequential for emissions purposes.

one of the big unknowns here is what flow rates people are getting... one guy mentions different colored injectors with different flow rates, someone else says it matches but it's 8 percent over(?)... too much gas is not good, as snobdds pointed out.

if you look at any injector sizing calculator on the web, they are typically oversizing by 20% already... the last thing you want is more flow for the same pulse width, especially with a narrow-band o2 sensor.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

Moved to the classifieds...

snobdds

Well since it was moved to the classifieds...I guess good luck with the sale.

Gamefreakgc

I think I just figured out why we are not on the same page.

22RE's have a 2-hole design which might actually spray a mist, not sure since I don't own one. 3VZE injectors (at least on a 91) spray a stream. The injector technician showed me the flow after the complete rebuilt which was a stream. He noted that some of the Toyota cars/pickups have the mist pattern and were better but these trucks didn't. Perhaps other years spray a mist, once again I can't say I've only owned one.

I switched injectors to a 4-hole mist and got better low-end torque and a "seat of the pants" increase in power. The guy was right, and I trust a guy who's spend 10+ years of his life working on nothing other than injectors.

Obviously though, some of our trucks can't handle the different kind of injectors. Maybe the injectors were faulty, maybe the ECU couldn't handle the spray pattern difference, really can't say. But the bottom line is it's your truck and you can do what you want to it. Mods are always a bit of a gamble, some are great and some aren't.

Sorry for derailing your thread Big Bear... hope you can sell them! EBay's a good place to start, I sold my old reman'd injectors for $90. Took about 2 weeks.

Gevo

My head is spinning... I am researching to buy new injectors.. the $150 a piece price from NAPA is not gonna cut it. I need a better price, but not a lesser product.

AnnaRaskol

Hey dude, having the same issue with mine don't mean to hijack here but what issues were you having?? I have an extremely rich condition going on and my ecu won't adjust either. Anyway.... Bump for ya

Gevo

AnnaRaskol, I figured out what my injector issues were long time ago.

Which injector do you have? Which engine? How do you know its running rich? Give some details so we can help.