91TPU

holy dead thread....

but to jump on the wagon and state my opinion...i have been both an employee of Sears Hardware and Lowes Home Improvement. Sears carrys quite a selection, and are quite cheap, but their quality is sub-par. Lowes has a significantly smaller selection of hand tools, and they are a bit more expensive, but their tools tend to be of better quality. I am fortunate enough to use quite a bit of snap tools, and anything else i use is either husky or kobalt, with a few odds and ends being craftsman because being the tool dept manager i worked many a good deal in my favor.

CyMoN

if you are going to buy craftsman tools go to a pawn shop first
I bought many craftsman tools at pawn shops for less than sears
I have even bought beat up craftsman tools then went right to sears to get new ones.

BUT you must know the prices of a tool you want before buying one at the pawn shop some tools they will mark up more than sears

Ironmike4x4

That's how I get my Snap On stuff from ebay. I will have the actual catalog and price book in my hand before I bid on one. Always have come out cheaper and anything that breaks gets replaced even though I didn't buy it from the truck.

surf4runner

garage sales and swapmeets too.

i recently got a roller box full of (good and bad) tools for $20 already replaced the craftsman for new.
also bought ALL the excess tools from work for $5 w/ retail value over $300

snap-on is usually a hassle for exchanges. & there are 2 trucks in my neighborhood.
they have restricted what qualifies as abuse. rusted = abused = no exchange.

shiftless89

Funny how a persons, first post is from a year old thread just pokin fun

04 Rocko Taco

WE found an old toolbox FULL of tools when we pulled an old junker escort out of the woods on some property a friend bought, the box was rusted so bad it had holes all init, and the tools were in about the same shape, turns out they were all craftsman tools, so we just went ahead and took them all to SEARS, and ended up with about $550 worth of brand new shiny Tools.

navyredneck

For me Lowes (on James Island since HarrisonP lives 8 mins from me) is closer by about 15 minutes so I buy Kobalt tools whenever possible.

Today I returned a breaker bar to Lowes that I had mangled the head where it pivots. I put about 600 ft-lbs of torque into this thing to get the bolt off of a harmonic balancer (imagine me standing on the end of the breaker bar doing a bench press from the ceiling and stopping to jump up and down on the end of the bar). It did something to the pin where it would always fall out. Anyway, I brought it into Lowes and no questions were asked. The lady told me to go get another one without even touching my broken breaker bar. Yep, I'll stick with Lowes as I've already bought at least $400 worth of tools from them in the last year.

So far my tool box is DeWalt power tools, Kobalt hand tools, a few Costco too-good-to-pass-up tools for dirt cheap, and a few Autozone automobile tools that I just couldn't find anywhere else.

gdf_77

dont know if anyone knows this but kmart owns sears/craftsman now. they bought them shortly after their bankruptcy

backyardmechanic

Subject: Ratchets and Sockets

The new Craftsman ratchet are diminishing is quality, however like everyone is saying, you can return it for a new one with no hassle. However if you are someone that hates running into down time then something else would be better.

Craftsman sockets are good quality. Don't care to much for the laser etched sockets. I noticed they etched them poorly and it looks scorched on there. I use to use a set of Pittsburgh black chrome laser etched sockets from HF. They gave me no problems what so ever. Very strong, very durable, and the etchings are specifically made to match up evenly when put on a clip rail (very convenient.) However the ratchets which comes with the set is junk.

Never used Kobalt tools before, but I was just at Lowes looking at them, and they look to be like fine quality ratchets. Little expensive though, but may be worth it.

Stanley and Stanley Proto make some really good tools. OMG they have some really nice ratchets. The rotator ratchet i use the most, because with it you don't have to worry about how many degrees swing it has. Reason is you can adjust the teeth at the turn of a wrist. I use that ratchet the most, and it is very high quality and I recommend it to any mechanic. Also if you are in a tight place and you loosen a bolt, then you can just twist the handle back and forth to take it out the rest of the way (awesomely convenient). I also have there adjustable wrench were you can adjust the length of the handle and the bend of the head. That ratchet has made some impossibles possible.
Works great for the 3/8" tensioner pulleys because with other wrenches you will find them getting stuck in the slot after you take the belt off. With the adjustable head you just click it in, turn the head, and out it goes. Their sockets seem to work pretty good too.

However I have replaced both my Pittsburgh sockets and Stanley sockets. I replaced them with a tool set known as Metrinch. Before anyone declares junk, it being on infomercials has ruined their attraction for serious mechanics imo. My dad has owned Metrinch sockets and tools for about 6 years now. Had one problem with one of their extensions, thats about it. When I use to live their at my parents I used his tools all the time when I needed to do something. At the time I didn't know the difference in Metric and SAE. I just thought one socket was for one kind of bolt/nut. So I used his tools ignorantly until I got out, and started buying my own and realized I was wasting my money and tool box space. Having sockets that fit both metric and standard bolts is very very convenient. As for the quality? They are very high quality. Only problem is my dad's old set rusted (good reason why). They rusted only because he left them outside often after working on the cars and he didn't have a garage but a carport. So ocassionaly he forgot about them and they got rained on. I have his old set now, and the sockets and wrenches are still 100% functional. Look ugly, but functional. The ratchet out of that set looks and feels really sturdy. Never had a problem with it what so ever. The only thing that sucks about owning metrinch tools is that you have to send them off and pay for shipping both ways (stupid, but can be tolerated I guess). I hate the fact that Metrinch decided to pull their products from sears and go private. That is the dumbest thing a tool company can do. Stop selling their tools at the biggest known tool store around that is in every small town and city. I think that is why they are not getting much business and their prices are getting jacked way up. Sears was earning them a reputation but they screwed up. So I'm getting my hands on all their sockets before they go out of business. Anyhow the best feature about the Metrinch tools is that they are designed to grab the flats of a nut/bolt making it virtually impossible to strip a nut/bolt. I sure never have myself. One thing in functionality though, some people don't like how the sockets fit on a nut/bolt. They feel like it's a socket that isn't the right size, but that is something you would have to get used to. It doesn't really ever bother me that it does that, because I never stripped anything with them sockets.

Ok, as far as Snap-On goes. Never used them, but everybody in this small town of Union, MO thinks that they are the best tools in the world. I don't see what the big fuss is about. I've heard that Craftsman is just as good.

The final conclusion for my choice of weapons. (Ratchets, Sockets, Drivers, and Wrenches)

Craftsman - 1/4" ratchet.
Extensions in all sizes.
Stanley - Rotator Ratchet
Adjustable Handle/Head Ratchet
1/2" Drive Ratchet
Metrinch - Sockets (in all sizes)
3/8" Ratchet
1/4" Nut Driver With 1/4" slot on handle (very nice)
Combination Wrenches

Claude_Suddreth

Hi all,

There seems to be a lot of confusion out there in the hand tool world about who makes who and the relationships between various tool companies. I just thought I would chime in with my 2 cents, and set the record straight a bit. I hope that by understanding the real relationships between various tool brands, that it will be easier to compare tool brands on a more apples to apples basis, and to understand why certain brands might seem rather similar.

There are really 3 major players out there in the USA tool market right now. I won't try to go through every brand made by each as they might make and market tools under a multitude of names. I will try to touch on the major brands made by each, which I see in this discussion. I will also mention 3 or 4 smaller players that are worth consideration also.

MAJOR MANUFACTURERS

1) STANLEY
a) MAC Tools (Top End)
b) Proto Tools (High Quality Industrial)
c) Black Hawk (High Quality but mostly made in Taiwan)
d) Husky (Home Depot store brand)
e) Stanley (Wal-Mart and Discounters)

2) DANAHER
a) Matco Tools (Top End)
b) Armstrong Tools (High Quality Industrial)
c) Silver Eagle (High Quality but mostly made in Taiwan)
d) Grey Pneumatic (Industrial quality but mostly made in Taiwan)
e) Kobalt (Lowes Store Brand)
f) Craftsman (Sears Store Brand)
g) NAPA (Napa Store Brand)
h) Allen
i) Gear Wrench
j) K-D Tools

3) Snap-On
a) Snap-On Tools (Top End)
b) JH Williams Tools (High Quality Industrial)
c) Blue Point (High Quality but mostly made in Taiwan)
d) Branded hand tools for New Holland and others - mostly Taiwan
e) Bahco
f) Sioux Tools
g) ATI Tools


MINOR PLAYERS BUT STILL LARGE

4) S-K (once part of Facom - now independent. Starting to see S-K tool trucks competing with Snap-On / Mac / Matco / Cornwell)

5) Cornwell (Image similar to Mac / Matco / Snap-on. Claims quality of comparable levels - however your mileage may vary)

6) Wright tools. (Can compete easily at the Matco / Mac / Proto / Armstrong levels of quality)

7) Lisle tools (much smaller - but many almost unique tools)


EUROPEAN (just for good measure - major players)

1) Stahlwille - The Snap-on of Europe. Best of the best - king of the hill.

2) Facom - Literally a truck brand there like Matco / Mac / Snap-on here.

3) Hazet - Very nice in most cases

4) Gedore - Quality industrial grade


I have not touched on specialty makers such as pliers (Vise-Grip / Channel-Lock USA - or Knipex in Europe - or similar such companies)



Now all this being said.....

I think it is now possible to understand why for example Craftsman and Kobalt are often of similar designs and similar quality. They are both store branded tools made by Danaher - and often in the same manufacturing facilities on the same production lines and by the same people. There might be slight differences in fit and finish or individual features of course. Or look at the new Craftsman Professional brand wrenches. You can sit them beside a full out Matco and they will compare quite well. Most of the Craftsman Professional line can be compared to either Matco or Armstrong products. Can you guess why? Look up on the internet - and you will see Danaher is selling craftsman professional tools to Industrial customers.

So the bottom line is this. Know WHO actually MAKES your tools. Find out WHERE they are made if possible - which manufacturing plant. You will often find more similarities than difference between brands that are marketed against each other. Now I am not saying that - say - Kobalt - is of the same quality as a Matco. They are not. They use different grades of steel - different castings - and obviously the Matco is made to a much higher level of overall fit, finish and quality. Just like GM has a Cadillac - and a Chevrolet - so Danaher has a Matco - and a Kobalt. Thats just good business. But just like a comparison between say a Pontiac and an Oldsmobile used to be rather difficult - a comparison between a Kobalt / Craftsman / Napa might have the same difficulties. The models are going to look very similar - and have very similar features. Slight differences in fit and finish - and of course price - will be the major separating factors.

I hope maybe this will be of help to someone out there. Have a great day - and keep turning those wrenches!

www.opinionexpert.com

drunberg

I use mainly Craftsman, usually easy to get. When I have killed ratchets they will replace them, but of course they try to give me a refurbed 1st, I just tell them that I have had bad luck with refurbed tools and they give me a new one.

I do have some of the Kobalt tools, but have not had them long enough to verify how well they last. I have had some of my Craftsman for 20+ years.

I did buy a cheap Craftsman impact wrench, but I realize that I will be buying a new one in a few more years. But I bought Ingorsall Rand impact sockets, to lessen the trashing of nuts and bolts.

I base my tool requirements on what I plan on using them for.
If I know that it is a quality tool and will be using it a lot, then I buy a quality tool.
If I just need it every so often, but it is for a important step, than I buy quality, otherwise I get a cheaper tool.
For my bikes I buy Park Tools without fail.
But I never buy the $10 tool kits, they are trash.

ozziesironmanoffroad

yeah, bought an autozone 15 piece set, or 50, cant remember, first time i tried using the screwdriver, damn thing shattered. and the sockets never stay in their plastic moldings, (but thats happened with any plastic cases ive owned) so i just put them all in my socket drawer. i like crapsman simply cuz of the warranty, and i can return em when i want, not when the truck feels its convinent. now i do have a couple snap on tools, but those are just a 19mm and a 21mm. my big torque wrench ive had for about 6 years now is a great neck, no idea what company that is, but seems to work great. i dont use it to actually torque to spec, just to tighten up stuff and loosen stuff.

dyetrix06

The Kobalt stuff is decent........I don't know, about the same as craftsman, some things are a little higher quality. Some of their ratchets are better than craftsman imo, craftsman ratchets are absolutely horrible, worst decent name brand ratchet I have ever used. Go with Kobalt, they seem to be better than craftsman......at least for a little while.

CJM

So far 2 years of abuse on my stanley walmart 3/8 ratchet. I have usd it as a hammer, as a prybar, as a ratchet of course and much more. Its used, abused and beaten up, no rust though even though my box gets wet alot. Very happy since I paid 10 bucks for it..

Then I have a set of stanley 3/8 sockets, all very good, 0 issues, even used on air ratchet and impact and was fine. Then I got husky 1/4 sockets, so far s good, finish is good, insides are rusting a bit from rain but nothing oil and a brush cant cure. So far havent broken a single one.

Then I have a pair of stanley branded vise grips, no issues and I like them better than the visegrip brand. Same goes for the channel locks by stanley, no issues and I beat them. Also the dikes by stanley, I got the better walmart maxsteel ones and cutting plenty of stuff I shouldnt be with them and no issues. Stanley ballpeen graphite handle has held up well, so has the crapsmen prybars, el cheapo whatever brand slip joint pliers and such.

What hasnt held up is crapsmen 1/4 ratchets, I have had 5 of them in a year and they always break. Shouldnt have ever traded in the old one I had (detent didnt work anymore) for this crap. I tried rebuilt, new and the danged new one broke faster.. not like I am really abusing it either cause the stanely 1/4 has held up way better.

Overall very happy with walmart stanley tools, for reg stuff its what one of the guys use at my shop and hes very happy with alot of the stuff.

So far my crecent branded sockets I nabbed at sams club are holding up well too, but the husky pro ratchets I got are great, very nice quality. Fact: most tools break by impoperly using them or using them with air when your not supposed to..

TC4RNR

IMHO, the brand new ones they sell today may NOT as good as the ones you bought 20 years ago.

i do keep few crapy rachets, sockets, adjustable wrenches and hammers around because there are always the few neighbors need to "borrow" something that i couldn't say no.

i don't have any Kobalt because they are new to southern california and sears is just in walking distance to my home. things like rachets and wrenches i have a mix of Snap-On, MAC and Matco, but mainly Craftsman. all my sockets are Craftsman. the only rachet i've ever broke was a Craftsman 1/2" drive while working on my front steering knockel. it was replaced no questions asked. but for those things rearly break, i.e. pliers, screw drivers, dikes, crimpers, most of mine are Klein with few Thomas & Betts. my dad was a amature eletrican, i was told they are good tools(and they are), reasonablely priced, looks good and the quality is golden. i take Klein screw drivers over Snap-On every day.

1990Runner

Everyone should check out the NEW CRAFTSMAN RETURN POLICY! with no exceptions you have to have a reciept. If you dont believe me go ask or call your local sears. My dad told me and i didnt believe him, so i drove to sears. They f@#ked up IMO. I like craftsman tools and all but now what makes them better? So for all you guys out there with Dads or grandpas old craftsman tools and they break, might as well scrap it. I think i might go somewhere else from now on for my tools

CJM

^ Wonderfull, who the hell holds onto a reciept for over 20 years?

Not like I would buy anything from them really..

1990Runner

Dude thats why i loved craftsman, you could burn your reciept if you wanted. i mean damn, even with Autozone you dont need a reciept!

89silverpu

just fyi you can also exchange any craftsman tool at Osh too...

mrnick1979

i like the older Kobalt tools when they were made by Snap on, but the new kobalt tools are not as good of quality, craftsman has good tools, there best are the professional series but they cost like snap on. i use mostley s&k and i love them. i buy most of my tools from tooltopia, they have great prices on s&k tool sets, also buy some off ebay, luckily i have a local store that sells s&k tools so if i break one they will replace it, i have only broke one rachet in three years and that was from using a 4ft piece of pipe for leverage. it doesnt matter what tools you use or own, just buy quality tools if you plan on relying on them.