Firesticks and Antenna Amplifiers - Distance in miles ?

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 05:39 AM

Hi

I am curious to learn what type of transmitting and receiving ranges can be had if you add an antenna amp or go with longer firesticks.

Currently I have dual 4 foot firesticks and a simple $130.00 Radio Shack CB with the 7 Wave / Surf reports.

It seems to work good, but am thinking if I get dual 8 footers or longer ( do they make such a thing? )that I can swap in before wheeling or trips I may be better off.

Also how well do those antenna amplifiers work?

what type of range, mileage wise can I expect.

Thanks!

This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Yotatech!

mastacox · 12-20-2006, 06:43 AM

An important thing to consider is that dual antennas make your transmission strong front-back but weaker side to side. This is o.k. for truckers that are driving on relatively straight highways, but off-road when you need 360* reception. For omni-directional transmission it is better to have one antenna as high as you can get it, like in the center of your roof.

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 07:10 AM

can I simply unscrew one antenna? or do I need to run an entirely new lead?

mastacox · 12-20-2006, 07:25 AM

Unscrewing one would have the same effect, but I'm assuming it isn't mounted on your roof, but rather down by your mirrors or something... you might be able to make up for mounting position with a nice long antenna.

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 07:33 AM

I have it mounted off my rear bumper...

think I should buy a pair of real long antennas? if so where should I get them online and what do they cost typically? thanks!!!

mastacox · 12-20-2006, 07:38 AM

It should be relatively easy to find nice long antennas, perhaps at truck stops or trucker stores. I have seen metal whip ones up to 10 feet long I think. I would check these kinds of stores forst before looking online since shipping would be bad news on an 8 ft. antenna.

Make sure you get your CB's SWR calibrated also. This can make a huge difference in available range of reception and transmission.

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 07:46 AM

thanks again

I will check some local places

think I should get two long antennas?

mastacox · 12-20-2006, 07:51 AM

Sure why not for highway driving, but make sure to only use one off-road for better omnidirectional reception and transmission. Don't forget SWR either, lots of trucker CB stores can do it for cheap...

pennywize · 12-20-2006, 08:01 AM

amplifiers help tremendously but are illegal. maximum transmit power allowed for a CB is 4 watts per FCC regs.
i once had a 17 foot ( 1\2 wavelength) fiberglass antenna mounted atop a 20 foot mast at my house with a 250 watt amplifier and on good days on SSB (single side band) i could talk to australia.
if your out wheelin' and you have an amplifier, you are going to transmit much further, but everyone else is still runnin 4 watts so they probably wont be able to reply if the distance is far.
like someone said before, i would get a good tunable antenna mounted on the roof in the center and calibrate your SWR.

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 08:18 AM

what do you think will work better?

dual firesticks as it is 4 footers

or run a new single lead and use only one of the 4 footers

pennywize · 12-20-2006, 08:28 AM

if it was me personally i would use a single firestick either 2 or 4 foot. get it tuned up and you should be good to go. use only one cable from the radio to the antenna. if it is set up now for 2 antennas replace the cable and run a single.
if it is set up for 2 antennas removing one and keeping the 'split' cable will change the load the transmitter sees and can damage the radio. one cable one antenna.
on my previous toyota i used a single 4 foot, worked great for what i needed.
my $0.02

KD7NAC_07FJ · 12-20-2006, 09:21 AM

Lets see if this helps.

With the antenna in the middle

you have equal field strength all the way around your truck.

in the corner

your truck blocks part of the field.

Duals in the back "focus" the field like so

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 10:00 AM

hi

thanks! I just bought a single cable, going to run that tonight

I will leave the dual cable, physically in the rig and leave the other firestick mounted in case I want to swap back, say for a long highway drive or something....

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 10:01 AM

how many miles, should this be good for,,,,rough estimate, if set up tuned right etc?

thanks

**Lysmachia** · 12-20-2006, 10:09 AM

Any particular reason you want to have such huge range? (Just curious). Also are you up in MA? If so wouldn't a long antenna on your roof get stuck in all the trees while wheeling?

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 10:22 AM

dont need a long range, just curious of what they typically get for mileage

alot of my off roading is on beaches and beach areas, me and my friends are always on various parts of the coast checking surf spots, so would be helpful if we could talk via cb, during storms etc

thanks!

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-20-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysmachia

Any particular reason you want to have such huge range? (Just curious). Also are you up in MA? If so wouldn't a long antenna on your roof get stuck in all the trees while wheeling?

plus I want to talk to my relatives on melzabatron...I am an alien

**Lysmachia** · 12-20-2006, 10:34 AM

Bwa Ha Ha! Good answer. If you get ahold of Zork on Archimedes.... let me know!

Yeah often I wish I had better range when we ar ein Moab, because then I would be able to hail and hear some of our other groups across the valley.

ewong · 12-20-2006, 10:50 AM

If you REALLY want range - get a HAM license

Its a tad easier to get a GMRS license (its just $75 I think - and lot of people dont seem to do that) and run a GMRS base. Then everyone uses those "FRS" radios when out of the rig... Set up a repeater in the truck and have a reall communications net

Also - the width seperation for dual antennas to work well is so wide that - well it works on big rigs but not so well on Toyotas... (dont recall the exact width)

CB "linear amps" are illegal.

Best bet for a CB is a center roof mounted antenna with a LONG (1/2 wave) whip - but thats too tall for wheelin.

I use a mag mount Wilson BTW...

SWR will help alot too.

I went and got a Ham license for "long range" talking - or use the cell phone

4Crawler · 12-20-2006, 11:22 AM

I think you need approx. 9 feet of antenna separation for dual antennas to work right:
- http://firestik.com/Tech_Docs/SNGL-or-Dual.htm

I used to get pretty good range on my old Uniden GrantXL + 4' FireStick on high power mode. Could get 10-20 miles or so given good line of sight.

BOSTON4RUNNER · 12-21-2006, 07:58 AM

set up the single firestick, seems to work well

checked the SWR - went by the testing features in the book, it shows to be like 1.3 or 1.4

tons of channels coming in, a world of difference!

thanks alot!!!!

KD7NAC_07FJ · 12-21-2006, 08:54 AM

Sounds like you got your antenna tuned pretty good. You asked about what kind of range you can expect with your radio. Your range in the AM bands (CB) will depend a lot of your surroundings. Line of sight on a good non-solar activity day with your 5 watt legal limit you might get 10 miles maybe a bit more.

Start throwing in trees, hills, mountains, buildings and the like and your range diminishes to about line of sight period. Radio is conductive so you can be at one end of a valley and talk to someone 10 or 15 miles at the other end of the valley especially if there is a river running through it. The point is there are a lot of factors effecting radio transmission.

If you really want to understand radio theory take an Armature (ham) Radio course and get your license then you can easily talk around the world from your rig

If you do I'm KD7NAC on the Pilchuck repeater 146.920- Everett, WA

big sky trapper · 12-23-2006, 08:56 PM

Best advice on the thread...get licenced! A whole new world of comunications will open up to you from the whole world to satelite!
KD7CGL....Central Montana.

NC99T4R · 12-28-2006, 10:29 PM

MAg mount wilson 1000 will extend your ground plane which will more 360 than directional front to back. A good radio like a 10 meter worked to run AM and upper and lowers can be tuned to 40-50 watts output. As for linear amps, if your moving and not giving your exact location the FCC has a hard time trianglulating your position. In my area unless your putting out 40 watts extra power is needed. I can run 44watts, 400plus or run amps off a 12\6v set up and can get 1000watts, which gets blow out here along the coast with skip. the more you add for power the more tunning you need b/c the SWR's will jump. Also the more power you have you can pull up to a thump thump ride key down and make his speakers squeal and tell them the cut the crap down. I've got friend's with four alternators to run everything and push 5k watts ina suburban

12-20-2006, 06:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
mastacox Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Alamos, NM Posts: 2,650	An important thing to consider is that dual antennas make your transmission strong front-back but weaker side to side. This is o.k. for truckers that are driving on relatively straight highways, but off-road when you need 360* reception. For omni-directional transmission it is better to have one antenna as high as you can get it, like in the center of your roof. __________________ Brian 1998 4Runner SR5

12-20-2006, 07:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	can I simply unscrew one antenna? or do I need to run an entirely new lead? __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-20-2006, 07:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
mastacox Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Alamos, NM Posts: 2,650	Unscrewing one would have the same effect, but I'm assuming it isn't mounted on your roof, but rather down by your mirrors or something... you might be able to make up for mounting position with a nice long antenna. __________________ Brian 1998 4Runner SR5

12-20-2006, 07:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	I have it mounted off my rear bumper... think I should buy a pair of real long antennas? if so where should I get them online and what do they cost typically? thanks!!! __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-20-2006, 07:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
mastacox Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Alamos, NM Posts: 2,650	It should be relatively easy to find nice long antennas, perhaps at truck stops or trucker stores. I have seen metal whip ones up to 10 feet long I think. I would check these kinds of stores forst before looking online since shipping would be bad news on an 8 ft. antenna. Make sure you get your CB's SWR calibrated also. This can make a huge difference in available range of reception and transmission. __________________ Brian 1998 4Runner SR5

12-20-2006, 07:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	thanks again I will check some local places think I should get two long antennas? __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-20-2006, 07:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
mastacox Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Alamos, NM Posts: 2,650	Sure why not for highway driving, but make sure to only use one off-road for better omnidirectional reception and transmission. Don't forget SWR either, lots of trucker CB stores can do it for cheap... __________________ Brian 1998 4Runner SR5

12-20-2006, 08:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
pennywize Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Humboldt County, CA Posts: 285	amplifiers help tremendously but are illegal. maximum transmit power allowed for a CB is 4 watts per FCC regs. i once had a 17 foot ( 1\2 wavelength) fiberglass antenna mounted atop a 20 foot mast at my house with a 250 watt amplifier and on good days on SSB (single side band) i could talk to australia. if your out wheelin' and you have an amplifier, you are going to transmit much further, but everyone else is still runnin 4 watts so they probably wont be able to reply if the distance is far. like someone said before, i would get a good tunable antenna mounted on the roof in the center and calibrate your SWR.

12-20-2006, 08:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	what do you think will work better? dual firesticks as it is 4 footers or run a new single lead and use only one of the 4 footers __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-20-2006, 08:28 AM	#11 (permalink)
pennywize Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Humboldt County, CA Posts: 285	if it was me personally i would use a single firestick either 2 or 4 foot. get it tuned up and you should be good to go. use only one cable from the radio to the antenna. if it is set up now for 2 antennas replace the cable and run a single. if it is set up for 2 antennas removing one and keeping the 'split' cable will change the load the transmitter sees and can damage the radio. one cable one antenna. on my previous toyota i used a single 4 foot, worked great for what i needed. my $0.02

12-20-2006, 09:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
KD7NAC_07FJ Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Everett Posts: 285	Lets see if this helps. With the antenna in the middle you have equal field strength all the way around your truck. in the corner your truck blocks part of the field. Duals in the back "focus" the field like so Attached Thumbnails Last edited by KD7NAC_07FJ; 12-20-2006 at 09:23 AM.

12-20-2006, 10:00 AM	#13 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	hi thanks! I just bought a single cable, going to run that tonight I will leave the dual cable, physically in the rig and leave the other firestick mounted in case I want to swap back, say for a long highway drive or something.... __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-20-2006, 10:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	how many miles, should this be good for,,,,rough estimate, if set up tuned right etc? thanks __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-20-2006, 10:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	dont need a long range, just curious of what they typically get for mileage alot of my off roading is on beaches and beach areas, me and my friends are always on various parts of the coast checking surf spots, so would be helpful if we could talk via cb, during storms etc thanks! __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-20-2006, 10:50 AM	#19 (permalink)
ewong Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Philly PA Posts: 1,290	If you REALLY want range - get a HAM license Its a tad easier to get a GMRS license (its just $75 I think - and lot of people dont seem to do that) and run a GMRS base. Then everyone uses those "FRS" radios when out of the rig... Set up a repeater in the truck and have a reall communications net Also - the width seperation for dual antennas to work well is so wide that - well it works on big rigs but not so well on Toyotas... (dont recall the exact width) CB "linear amps" are illegal. Best bet for a CB is a center roof mounted antenna with a LONG (1/2 wave) whip - but thats too tall for wheelin. I use a mag mount Wilson BTW... SWR will help alot too. I went and got a Ham license for "long range" talking - or use the cell phone

12-20-2006, 11:22 AM	#20 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,828	I think you need approx. 9 feet of antenna separation for dual antennas to work right: - http://firestik.com/Tech_Docs/SNGL-or-Dual.htm I used to get pretty good range on my old Uniden GrantXL + 4' FireStick on high power mode. Could get 10-20 miles or so given good line of sight. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

12-21-2006, 07:58 AM	#21 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	set up the single firestick, seems to work well checked the SWR - went by the testing features in the book, it shows to be like 1.3 or 1.4 tons of channels coming in, a world of difference! thanks alot!!!! __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

12-21-2006, 08:54 AM	#22 (permalink)
KD7NAC_07FJ Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Everett Posts: 285	Sounds like you got your antenna tuned pretty good. You asked about what kind of range you can expect with your radio. Your range in the AM bands (CB) will depend a lot of your surroundings. Line of sight on a good non-solar activity day with your 5 watt legal limit you might get 10 miles maybe a bit more. Start throwing in trees, hills, mountains, buildings and the like and your range diminishes to about line of sight period. Radio is conductive so you can be at one end of a valley and talk to someone 10 or 15 miles at the other end of the valley especially if there is a river running through it. The point is there are a lot of factors effecting radio transmission. If you really want to understand radio theory take an Armature (ham) Radio course and get your license then you can easily talk around the world from your rig If you do I'm KD7NAC on the Pilchuck repeater 146.920- Everett, WA Last edited by KD7NAC_07FJ; 12-21-2006 at 08:55 AM.

12-23-2006, 08:56 PM	#23 (permalink)
big sky trapper Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MONTANA Posts: 18	Best advice on the thread...get licenced! A whole new world of comunications will open up to you from the whole world to satelite! KD7CGL....Central Montana. __________________ Big Sky Trapper www.outtasightcustomcamo.net

12-28-2006, 10:29 PM	#24 (permalink)
NC99T4R Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 17	MAg mount wilson 1000 will extend your ground plane which will more 360 than directional front to back. A good radio like a 10 meter worked to run AM and upper and lowers can be tuned to 40-50 watts output. As for linear amps, if your moving and not giving your exact location the FCC has a hard time trianglulating your position. In my area unless your putting out 40 watts extra power is needed. I can run 44watts, 400plus or run amps off a 12\6v set up and can get 1000watts, which gets blow out here along the coast with skip. the more you add for power the more tunning you need b/c the SWR's will jump. Also the more power you have you can pull up to a thump thump ride key down and make his speakers squeal and tell them the cut the crap down. I've got friend's with four alternators to run everything and push 5k watts ina suburban __________________ Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance...the 7 P's

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What is the most you've towed any distance?	yamarocket630	Off Topic Talk	42	10-31-2007 12:22 AM
Going the Distance	sirrdavid	Maintenance & Repair Archives	2	07-28-2005 08:26 AM
Braking distance	4unner4life	95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners	3	07-13-2005 11:51 AM
Distance to work?	jimstoy	Off Topic Talk	9	11-29-2004 06:02 AM
Opinion on MA Audio Amplifiers?	DavidA	Vehicle Audio & Home Entertainment	4	07-09-2004 07:44 AM