Rear 3 link kit on the market!!

85runner · 12-15-2003, 07:23 PM

This should help some of you guys who don't have the tools or knowhow to link your truck...what's cool is that they have figured out how to do it without relocating the gas tank: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hreadid=203252

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Shane · 12-15-2003, 08:12 PM

Nice!

ravencr · 12-16-2003, 03:03 AM

The last post says that it's not meant to be a gay ramp champ, but I don't know about you guys, but the whole reason for doing a totally custom rear setup would be for sick amounts of flex for me. What about you?

Chris

Mad Chemist · 12-16-2003, 07:55 AM

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that kit is for 1st or 2nd gens, particularly since they were talking about chevy springs. The back end of our 3rd gen flexes okay as it is, not great. I'd slap ona couple of longer shocks, and spend the money on SAS if I was serious about making the 4runner into a true offroader.

Having crazy flex in the back with IFS in the front is like having a Tyrannasaurus Rex for a truck. Tiny little front feet, so if you lean forward too far you can't prevent yourself from falling over....

joez · 12-16-2003, 09:26 AM

there is such a thing as "too much" flex. ramp champs are gay, plain and simple. get one in an off camber situation and it will spontaniously flop. one side will just unload, with no weight on it to help you power out of it. this is why revolvers are dumb. you get more droop, but there is no weight on that drooped tire, so you still dont gain any traction. you still want good flex, which i am sure this kit gives great flex, but it is all usable. there is no "wasted" flex.

85runner · 12-16-2003, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Chemist
I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that kit is for 1st or 2nd gens, particularly since they were talking about chevy springs.

If it fits 1st and 2nd, it will fit 3rd too. (assuming you are talking about trucks..)

ravencr · 12-16-2003, 05:07 PM

Interesting stuff! There's so many differing opinions I'm getting from all the boards it's confusing to say the least.

Chris

85runner · 12-16-2003, 05:35 PM

Yep, its best to keep it simple. They argue alot about stuff that makes only a marginal difference. There are just a few important things to consider.

ravencr · 12-16-2003, 05:38 PM

And they are??

Chris

85runner · 12-16-2003, 05:59 PM

Antisquat mostly.

ravencr · 12-16-2003, 06:15 PM

Enlighten me! I know I want very little, and that it's prevented by making the traction bars as parallel to the ground as possible, but what about rear steer?

Chris

joez · 12-16-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ravencr
Enlighten me! I know I want very little, and that it's prevented by making the traction bars as parallel to the ground as possible, but what about rear steer?

Chris

there will be rear steer no matter what, the key is getting it as minimal as possible. using 38" links, i dont think rear steer will be too bad on this kit, but it will exist.

ravencr · 12-16-2003, 07:17 PM

Everyone is so short and too the point on this subject when I'm looking for more details as to how to prevent these things in relation to link location and design. Does anyone have any more detailed input they could provide?

Chris

joez · 12-16-2003, 10:18 PM

i could sit here and type for at least 3 hours trying to explain everything i could think of, OR, i could just do this....

link

this describes speciffically for an oval track, but many of the basics are still the same. also, go to your local library and see if they have any books on chassis engineering, i forget some of the titles, but the are very helpful, and extreamly specific.

you could search pirate, but i think that you would spend more time sifting through the BS than you would actually reading about the suspension.

runnerboy97 · 12-17-2003, 07:18 AM

Dude, just search over on pirate and you will learn alot, i know i have. gtanted theres as much BS as good info, keep reading. Check in there frequently and read all the current threads, many are suspention related. I have bee doing most of my reasearch over there. I am getting an 87 4runner, for next to nothing, it aint pretty, but it will become a trail oonly rig. I have been getting design ideas to make an awesome 4runner. THis new kit might be what im looking for too.

Flygtenstein · 12-17-2003, 11:12 AM

Chris, go to PBB. You seem to be on the brink of getting some serious stuff done and that place has the tech for that sort of thing.

I wanted to post this when I saw it so that you could take a look, but I have been away from the computer.

The T-Rex analogy is right on the market. Right now my rear is so soft that it does all it's worth before the front moves, the front is stiff, but that is beside the point.

This kit would be worthless on an IFS rig.

Lots of flex is good, but too much makes the rig unstable.

Only problem with this kit for you is that the third link would be right in your gas tank. In principle though, this is a good solution. When the Solid axle fairy beckons me, this looks like the best rear solution because it will avoid moving more weight to the rear.

BruceTS · 12-26-2003, 09:04 PM

I don't like the panhard bar design, you can easily put an upper wishbone, with one side clearing the stock fuel tank, eliminating any side to side movement of the axle assembly. I discussed my 3-link design with the fabricator at Marlin's shop, he agreed it would work, but for streetability the 4-link is more stable. Once I get caught up with my current workload I'll give it more thought and make up a jig to test it all out.

BTW their design won't work on the 3rd generations fuel tank on the wrong side.....

ldivinag · 12-30-2003, 06:25 AM

FWIW, that looks like a 5 link: 4 arms and the panhard rod...

one dude in our club has had a 3 link system being built my marlin's shop:
http://marlincrawler.com/double_cab_project.html

funny they listed it as a 4 link... i only count 3...

BruceTS · 12-30-2003, 07:26 AM

No, it's got 2 links on the left and 1 link on the right with a panhard bar. The reason it won't work on 3 gens is because of the location of the upper link on the left side. As for trying to reverse the linkage to make it work, don't bother the panhard bar must be mounted with the top mount on the right and lower mount on the left, due to the way the engine torque occurs.

The one at Marlins shop is a 3-link with a very nice anti-sway bar design, I was looking at it when I was up there last week.

What I may do is my 3-link design with a 1 1/4" tubular sway bar for the street. Right now I've got several different ideas, I may just fab several different versions to test.

Napoleon047 · 12-30-2003, 12:55 PM

tubing wont work for a swaybar. swaybars are made from spring steel and are subjected to numerous amounts of twisting force, attempting to use tube will result in bent and or twisted off tubing.

BruceTS · 12-30-2003, 03:06 PM

Well then you don't know much about tubular swaybars. I've been using them on my race cars for quite some years now. They are pretty much standard in the industry, giving the same characteristics but much lighter.

http://www.1speedway.com/standard_swaybars.htm

ravencr · 12-30-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ldivinag
FWIW, that looks like a 5 link: 4 arms and the panhard rod...

one dude in our club has had a 3 link system being built my marlin's shop:
http://marlincrawler.com/double_cab_project.html

funny they listed it as a 4 link... i only count 3...

It looks like it would work if the stock tank was relocated to the spare tire area, but then again after looking at the link on top of the chunk, how does that allow for the angles of the axle? It looks like it would easily allow for straight up and down movement, but when one wheel is stuffed and the other is drooped, how does that link handle it?

Chris

12-15-2003, 08:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Shane Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 3,000	Nice! __________________ "It's one great big dysfunctional family that now has to split up and spread dysfunctionality around the greater world," Bill Stainton on the breakup of the cast of "Almost Live!"

12-16-2003, 03:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	The last post says that it's not meant to be a gay ramp champ, but I don't know about you guys, but the whole reason for doing a totally custom rear setup would be for sick amounts of flex for me. What about you? Chris __________________ http://www.utvrally.com http://www.utvevents.com http://www.cartwheelin.com

12-16-2003, 07:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mad Chemist Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,878	I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that kit is for 1st or 2nd gens, particularly since they were talking about chevy springs. The back end of our 3rd gen flexes okay as it is, not great. I'd slap ona couple of longer shocks, and spend the money on SAS if I was serious about making the 4runner into a true offroader. Having crazy flex in the back with IFS in the front is like having a Tyrannasaurus Rex for a truck. Tiny little front feet, so if you lean forward too far you can't prevent yourself from falling over.... __________________ -David '98 4Runner: SAW/OME lift, TJM bumper, Warn M8000 winch, Hayden tranny cooler, Trail Carnage front and belly skid plates, PIAA fogs, Rock lights, 33" MT's on Tech1 Rockcrawler rims, Lars sway bar discos, Sonoran bumpstops and rear bumper, RB 1" body lift, Daystar front bumpstops '73 FJ40: 327 SBC, York, Dual Batteries, custom tire carrier, Corbeau Baja SS bucket seats, Bestop top. TLCA#14428

12-16-2003, 09:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
joez Contributing Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Elwood, Il Posts: 1,253	there is such a thing as "too much" flex. ramp champs are gay, plain and simple. get one in an off camber situation and it will spontaniously flop. one side will just unload, with no weight on it to help you power out of it. this is why revolvers are dumb. you get more droop, but there is no weight on that drooped tire, so you still dont gain any traction. you still want good flex, which i am sure this kit gives great flex, but it is all usable. there is no "wasted" flex. __________________ -Joe Z Chicago 4x4 My Webshots 1985 Toyota 4Runner, 3" Trail Gear rear/ All-Pro front springs, 42x14 IROK's, Allied Rockathons, spool rear/detroit front, 30 spline longs, Dual cases w/4.7, Marlin High steer, lots of other stuff.. 1997 Dodge 2500 4x4, 12valve CTD, not stock.

12-16-2003, 05:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	Interesting stuff! There's so many differing opinions I'm getting from all the boards it's confusing to say the least. Chris __________________ http://www.utvrally.com http://www.utvevents.com http://www.cartwheelin.com

12-16-2003, 05:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
85runner Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 291	Yep, its best to keep it simple. They argue alot about stuff that makes only a marginal difference. There are just a few important things to consider. __________________ Korrupt Krawlers CrawlinAZ.com - Arizona Runs

12-16-2003, 05:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	And they are?? Chris __________________ http://www.utvrally.com http://www.utvevents.com http://www.cartwheelin.com

12-16-2003, 05:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
85runner Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 291	Antisquat mostly. __________________ Korrupt Krawlers CrawlinAZ.com - Arizona Runs

12-16-2003, 06:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	Enlighten me! I know I want very little, and that it's prevented by making the traction bars as parallel to the ground as possible, but what about rear steer? Chris __________________ http://www.utvrally.com http://www.utvevents.com http://www.cartwheelin.com

12-16-2003, 07:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	Everyone is so short and too the point on this subject when I'm looking for more details as to how to prevent these things in relation to link location and design. Does anyone have any more detailed input they could provide? Chris __________________ http://www.utvrally.com http://www.utvevents.com http://www.cartwheelin.com

12-16-2003, 10:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
joez Contributing Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Elwood, Il Posts: 1,253	i could sit here and type for at least 3 hours trying to explain everything i could think of, OR, i could just do this.... link this describes speciffically for an oval track, but many of the basics are still the same. also, go to your local library and see if they have any books on chassis engineering, i forget some of the titles, but the are very helpful, and extreamly specific. you could search pirate, but i think that you would spend more time sifting through the BS than you would actually reading about the suspension. __________________ -Joe Z Chicago 4x4 My Webshots 1985 Toyota 4Runner, 3" Trail Gear rear/ All-Pro front springs, 42x14 IROK's, Allied Rockathons, spool rear/detroit front, 30 spline longs, Dual cases w/4.7, Marlin High steer, lots of other stuff.. 1997 Dodge 2500 4x4, 12valve CTD, not stock.

12-17-2003, 07:18 AM	#15 (permalink)
runnerboy97 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 1,017	Dude, just search over on pirate and you will learn alot, i know i have. gtanted theres as much BS as good info, keep reading. Check in there frequently and read all the current threads, many are suspention related. I have bee doing most of my reasearch over there. I am getting an 87 4runner, for next to nothing, it aint pretty, but it will become a trail oonly rig. I have been getting design ideas to make an awesome 4runner. THis new kit might be what im looking for too. __________________ 1997 4runner,lifted, locked, dash and grille mounted red LED lights, its my DD 1988 4runner, SAS, dual lockers, dual cases, longfields, 36's, and lots more.

12-17-2003, 11:12 AM	#16 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	Chris, go to PBB. You seem to be on the brink of getting some serious stuff done and that place has the tech for that sort of thing. I wanted to post this when I saw it so that you could take a look, but I have been away from the computer. The T-Rex analogy is right on the market. Right now my rear is so soft that it does all it's worth before the front moves, the front is stiff, but that is beside the point. This kit would be worthless on an IFS rig. Lots of flex is good, but too much makes the rig unstable. Only problem with this kit for you is that the third link would be right in your gas tank. In principle though, this is a good solution. When the Solid axle fairy beckons me, this looks like the best rear solution because it will avoid moving more weight to the rear.

12-26-2003, 09:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
BruceTS Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,317	I don't like the panhard bar design, you can easily put an upper wishbone, with one side clearing the stock fuel tank, eliminating any side to side movement of the axle assembly. I discussed my 3-link design with the fabricator at Marlin's shop, he agreed it would work, but for streetability the 4-link is more stable. Once I get caught up with my current workload I'll give it more thought and make up a jig to test it all out. BTW their design won't work on the 3rd generations fuel tank on the wrong side..... Last edited by BruceTS; 12-26-2003 at 10:47 PM.

12-30-2003, 06:25 AM	#18 (permalink)
ldivinag Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: N37 39* W122 3* Posts: 1,428	FWIW, that looks like a 5 link: 4 arms and the panhard rod... one dude in our club has had a 3 link system being built my marlin's shop: http://marlincrawler.com/double_cab_project.html funny they listed it as a 4 link... i only count 3... __________________ leo d. stock 90 4runner

12-30-2003, 07:26 AM	#19 (permalink)
BruceTS Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,317	No, it's got 2 links on the left and 1 link on the right with a panhard bar. The reason it won't work on 3 gens is because of the location of the upper link on the left side. As for trying to reverse the linkage to make it work, don't bother the panhard bar must be mounted with the top mount on the right and lower mount on the left, due to the way the engine torque occurs. The one at Marlins shop is a 3-link with a very nice anti-sway bar design, I was looking at it when I was up there last week. What I may do is my 3-link design with a 1 1/4" tubular sway bar for the street. Right now I've got several different ideas, I may just fab several different versions to test. Last edited by BruceTS; 12-30-2003 at 07:27 AM.

12-30-2003, 12:55 PM	#20 (permalink)
Napoleon047 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 995	tubing wont work for a swaybar. swaybars are made from spring steel and are subjected to numerous amounts of twisting force, attempting to use tube will result in bent and or twisted off tubing. __________________ -Peter 86 4runner SAS - Trail Rig 94 FZJ80 - DD the dirt cheap SAS Marko Customs

12-30-2003, 03:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
BruceTS Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,317	Well then you don't know much about tubular swaybars. I've been using them on my race cars for quite some years now. They are pretty much standard in the industry, giving the same characteristics but much lighter. http://www.1speedway.com/standard_swaybars.htm Last edited by BruceTS; 12-30-2003 at 03:09 PM.

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