Dana 44 ?'s

ozzfan1JC · 02-02-2004, 06:05 PM

When I start my SAS with a Dana 44... What kinds of modification are required? I searched, but couldn't find many answers. Do the spring perches have to be moved any? Also, I have seen points of the steering that have to be modified. What are they talking about when it says (modify to accept high-steer) or sumthin like that? I am just looking to see what kinds of mods to do to my newly found D44... Thanx abunch...

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fourwd1 · 02-02-2004, 06:14 PM

How much you have to do to the D44 depends on what vehicle it's from. You will probably have to redo the perchs, you may even have to narrow the axle. Why not just use a Toy axle, the D44 isn't any stronger.

Either way you'll need a high-steer kit. You just replace the stock arms on the axle with the new ones, then install the rest.

ozzfan1JC · 02-02-2004, 08:27 PM

I don't want to use the toy axle and have to deal with a 5 inch difference in width.... also I think the diff is on the wrong side for me. I have a 96 4Runner...

its2slo · 02-02-2004, 08:44 PM

it depends on what d44 you choose.

jruz · 02-02-2004, 09:17 PM

Umm...do a search for the user "Breezey" as he recently did the SAS on his 1996 4Runner.

Jim

upndair · 02-02-2004, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fourwd1
How much you have to do to the D44 depends on what vehicle it's from. You will probably have to redo the perchs, you may even have to narrow the axle. Why not just use a Toy axle, the D44 isn't any stronger.

Either way you'll need a high-steer kit. You just replace the stock arms on the axle with the new ones, then install the rest.

The Dana 44 may not be any stronger than the TOY rear, but the front eliminates the problems of the birfields.

You don't need to hysteer it as long as your steeting is setup for crossovr - which is should be. The hysteer is nice, but not required.

You will need to narrow and move the perches - most likely. That'll depend on what you buy and what your current spring width would be after the SAS. You can outboard your spring perhces to match the Dana 44, but then you're running full width with is typically 65 - 67" WMS - WMS. A stock Toy solid axle is only 59"

44Runner · 02-02-2004, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzfan1JC
I don't want to use the toy axle and have to deal with a 5 inch difference in width.... also I think the diff is on the wrong side for me. I have a 96 4Runner...

But you say your "newly found" 44. So what did it come out of if you already have it???

If it came out of a Waggy, it will need to be sprung over and you will need a set of flat top knuckles if you want to run high steer, which you do.

<soapbox>

Not to jump on you or anything, but this information is literally ALL OVER the internet. If you don't know this simple stuff and you have already started in on your SAS you might have bigger fish to fry.

I mean your posts look like you don't have a clue on, well, anything. I mean if you have the axle and you can't look at it and tell what needs to be done I hope you'll excuse me if I question your ability to take on a project of this magnitude.

I seriously think you might need to sit down and figure out what every step of this project will require and firgure out wether or not this is something that you know about and can do safely.

Solid axle swaps are not to be attempted by Joe Schmoe. If that junk breaks on the road, you could kill yourself. Not to mention you can't just go back once you've started. I see a lot of people posting simple questions about this stuff and that scares me. If you don't have the basics, how can you expect to do this right?

</soapbox>

With that said, feel free to PM me with any questions you have. Despite what it may look like my interest is not in chastizing you but in helping you to get this 100% right...

upndair · 02-03-2004, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 44Runner
Not to jump on you or anything, but this information is literally ALL OVER the internet. If you don't know this simple stuff and you have already started in on your SAS you might have bigger fish to fry.

I think the right idea is coming across here. Doing an SAS at home requires significant fabrication skills and should only be taken on by those who have the skills OR by those who have a good friend with the skills.

Personally, I get tired of people (mostly on the Pirate4x4 board) telling everyone to look it up, use the search function etc. While you certainly can and should do that as part of your research, feel free to post questions that you didn't find answers to. I'm no SAS guru nor Dana guru but since I recently went through a lot of the same questions you had, I have no problems answering question either - silly or not

I read through most of this last night but now it's my turn for the silly questions.
1. How far into this process are you? What steps have you taken that you're already committed to - such as; did you already buy the Dana 44?
2. What is your level of knowledge regarding suspension design? It never goes exactly as expected...
3. WHY are you doing the SAS?

Napoleon047 · 02-03-2004, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by upndair
The Dana 44 may not be any stronger than the TOY rear, but the front eliminates the problems of the birfields.
... A stock Toy solid axle is only 59"

a toy axle with longfields is stronger than a stock D44 and longfeilds are cheaper than CTM's

a stock toy solid front axle is only 56" thats why people use spacers or wide axle kits on their SAS

upndair · 02-03-2004, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Napoleon047
a toy axle with longfields is stronger than a stock D44 and longfeilds are cheaper than CTM's

a stock toy solid front axle is only 56" thats why people use spacers or wide axle kits on their SAS

The first part is debatable.

The second is correct. I forget that I had spacers :o)

44Runner · 02-03-2004, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Napoleon047
a toy axle with longfields is stronger than a stock D44 and longfeilds are cheaper than CTM's

Why do people say this? I mean seriously, what the hell is the point?

So you are telling me that if you take two front axles that have roughly the same strength stock, and you add upgraded parts to one of them, that axle then becomes stronger? NO ???

Here the the cold hard facts. A 44 with alloy shafts and your choice of beefy u-joint is MUCH STRONGER than a toy front with all the available upgrades on the market. Not to mention toy housings are easier to bend. They also have a nasty habit of getting trashed from the inside whether its a shattered bell that takes out the inner knuckle or a piece of R&P shoved through the front of the housing.

I have nothing against them, those are just facts. Take it or leave it. I plan to use a toy front in my next project...

joez · 02-03-2004, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 44Runner
Why do people say this? I mean seriously, what the hell is the point?

So you are telling me that if you take two front axles that have roughly the same strength stock, and you add upgraded parts to one of them, that axle then becomes stronger? NO ???

Here the the cold hard facts. A 44 with alloy shafts and your choice of beefy u-joint is MUCH STRONGER than a toy front with all the available upgrades on the market. Not to mention toy housings are easier to bend. They also have a nasty habit of getting trashed from the inside whether its a shattered bell that takes out the inner knuckle or a piece of R&P shoved through the front of the housing.

I have nothing against them, those are just facts. Take it or leave it. I plan to use a toy front in my next project...

Exacly, people compare a beefed toy axle against a stock junkyard find dana 44. Put alloy shafts in both, longfields in the toy axle, and longs treated 760X u-joints and that 44 will be stronger.

I am going to have to agree completely with 44Runner here, If i remember there are 3 recent SAS's in this forum section alone. Two with 44's, and one with a Toy axle.

Spend a little time reading those three, and search pirate for a while. You will find more information than you will need.

Edit, as i look on the first page of this forum, i see 2 SAS that have been completed and documented. Not to pick on you or anything, but how much did you search?

ozzfan1JC · 02-03-2004, 06:09 PM

OK....first things first... I haven't started the SAS (as I said in the first post) yet. I do know some about the swap, but all I want is a good number of opinions. I know that alot of the info is on the site already, but I want opinions from people, not just facts and information. About the "newly found" D44, a friend of mine told me he has an axle, but I haven't been able to go get it yet. That's why I was just curious how much work is going to have to be done on it. Also, I am not doing the SAS by myself. I have a friend who is going to do it with me, that knows plenty about this. I just can never catch him at home right now, because he works out of town alot, and also just had a baby boy. So his time is pretty occupied, and I don't want to bother him too much right now. It's just the "anticipation of articulation" is killin me!!! I know people just hate when I post a question about this, but I am really nervous about the road ahead. I don't know everything about this swap, but I do know some. The things I don't know are like "high-steer", and "crossover steering." Stuff like that, I have no clue of it. I wouldn't be so worried about possibly missing one little detail, but this is my everyday ride for now... I just wanted everyone's opinion that I could get to help me make my decision on whether to do it yet or not. I may even not worry about it, and start work on my 1967 Ford Fairlane 2-Door Hardtop. It may be a better way to go...... Who knows though? I guess people's opinions will help decide that. Thanx for the help everyone...

upndair · 02-03-2004, 06:14 PM

You're asking for help in the right place. In my opinion, the only dumb question was the one that you didn't ask.

jruz · 02-03-2004, 06:20 PM

I still think people were curious as to which D44 you are going to get from this friend...as they are not all created equal.

(yup, there are different ones, as lame as that sounds)

Jim

lcopelan22 · 02-03-2004, 08:13 PM

"Hy Steer" and "Cross over Steering" are almost one in the same. You can get standard Crossover steering which leaves the tie rod under the leaf springs, or you can get Hy Crossover Steering that moves the tierod up over the springs. I know your gonna run a dana 44 but just for a general idea you can check out some X-over pics on a yota axle at Allprooffroad.com. This should give you an idea of how it works. Hope this helps.

WATRD · 02-03-2004, 08:29 PM

...and in addition to those, here's a photo of cross-over, hi-steer on a Waggy D44 axle that is almost clear enough to see everything up to the Pitman arm.

Edit: It would help if I inserted the damn image

ozzfan1JC · 02-04-2004, 07:07 PM

Let me just tell you my goal.....and see what ya'll think..... I have two friends whom I ride with. My brother has a 97 Taco, 3 inch Revtek spacer lift, 3 inch body lift, and 32x11.50 SSR Swampers. My other friend has a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4 inch Rubicon Express lift (dang that thing will flex), and a rear locker. We ride as a little group, and it seems I always get left behind on the trail. I want the SAS because I love flex. I loved the 4-link rear when I first got it, because I just think its neat to watch it going through a rut, and keepin the tires on the ground. However, this IFS front-end just isn't enough for me. Maybe if I had a big IFS lift, it would be better, but I don't wanna spend 2 grand on a lift, and not be satisfied. I'm sure you all know where I'm coming from. I have never done a SAS, but to be honest, I do all the work to my 4Runner. I also installed both lifts on my brother's Taco(along with help from him). The SAS looks complicated, but I honestly think I can do it. Like I said, a friend of mine has done a couple of swaps (a 90-sumthin Z71 sittin now on Dana 60's front and rear). He also has a jeep he has built.....well it used to be a jeep...lol. He said he will help me do it, but I guess I am just nervous about such a venture. I know I have asked repeat questions, but ya'll gotta bare with me..... I'm about to take that big leap....this is like marriage or sumthin.....(except life gets better with SAS) (I heard its sumtimes the other way around with marriage... lol). Thanx for all you guys help. It means alot.

P.S. WATRD, I want my 4Runner sumthin like yours... maybe on 35's.......one day.... one day.....

upndair · 02-04-2004, 08:19 PM

I think you just offended WATRD :o)

Taco - 4Runner - Taco??

WATRD · 02-04-2004, 08:22 PM

I had never done a swap before either, but between ChrisCo and I and a lot of research, we muddled it out and I am QUITE happy with the end result.

Gibby, the word it "flattered", not "offended"

ehehehheheeh

amusement · 02-04-2004, 08:48 PM

If I had to choose a Dana44 axel it would be from an old 60's International Harvester 1/2 truck.

But, nothing says more than a Ford 9 inch axel from a late 70's ford pickup.

My total preference would be a GMC heavy 1/2 ton pickup with Dana 60's. The width of the axel was correct but, brackets for brakes and springs would need to be fabbricated. Another disturbing problem is getting the wheel studs on the hub to match Toy rims. It would be more fabrication time and money.

Why put yourself through so much hell trying to get drive lines to match or frabicated for the front using a Dana 44 without the installing a true beefy axel.

Note:

The front IFS axel is considered a full floating axel. Stronger than a normal Dana44 sem-floating axel. I understand there are some full floating Dana's but, there are from older rigs.

joez · 02-04-2004, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amusement
If I had to choose a Dana44 axel it would be from an old 60's International Harvester 1/2 truck.

But, nothing says more than a Ford 9 inch axel from a late 70's ford pickup.

My total preference would be a GMC heavy 1/2 ton pickup with Dana 60's. The width of the axel was correct but, brackets for brakes and springs would need to be fabbricated. Another disturbing problem is getting the wheel studs on the hub to match Toy rims. It would be more fabrication time and money.

Why put yourself through so much hell trying to get drive lines to match or frabicated for the front using a Dana 44 without the installing a true beefy axel.

Note:

The front IFS axel is considered a full floating axel. Stronger than a normal Dana44 sem-floating axel. I understand there are some full floating Dana's but, there are from older rigs.

Couple things i have to correct you on, "heavy 1/2's" never, NEVER, had D60's. Not only that but the heavy 1/2 was only available in 2wd. It had a 12 bolt rear end vs. the 10 bolt and had the 454 option.

Now, for a little history. Back in the 67-72 style trucks (chevy), there was (as a rare option, VERY RARE) a 6-lug Dana 60 rear in some 1/2-tons. AFAIK, it was a c-clip design with 30-spline axles. Only available in the rear end. Kaiser J-trucks did have a factory 6-lug dana 60, but again, only in the back.

Another, every single front solid axle is a full floater. Every single one (yes, this inclueds portals). Calling the IFS full floating is a bit of a stretch.

Rear axles are different, there were full floating 44's and 60's. there were semi floating 44's and 60'd. Toyota even has had a few full float rear axles, though they were most all in LC's and 1 tons.

I dont mean to be an ass, but i hate being missinformed as much as the next.

amusement · 02-04-2004, 09:52 PM

Thanks for the education.

Most of the material i had listed in the previous post came from the Toyota Truck and LC bible.

I will re-educate myself before speaking another word on dana axels.

44Runner · 02-05-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by amusement
If I had to choose a Dana44 axel it would be from an old 60's International Harvester 1/2 truck.

But, nothing says more than a Ford 9 inch axel from a late 70's ford pickup.

My total preference would be a GMC heavy 1/2 ton pickup with Dana 60's. The width of the axel was correct but, brackets for brakes and springs would need to be fabbricated. Another disturbing problem is getting the wheel studs on the hub to match Toy rims. It would be more fabrication time and money.

Why put yourself through so much hell trying to get drive lines to match or frabicated for the front using a Dana 44 without the installing a true beefy axel.

Note:

The front IFS axel is considered a full floating axel. Stronger than a normal Dana44 sem-floating axel. I understand there are some full floating Dana's but, there are from older rigs.

joez went pretty light on you. I'm not sure if anything in this post is right.

why would you choose a 60's 44??? You know there is a reason you never see closed knuckled 44s on anyone's rig. They suck...

Your "note" is really bad. Makes me doubt you actually know what full floating/semi-floating means. Pretty much all front ends are considered full floating, 44, IFS, 30, 60, 35(ttb) you name it. full floating simply means that a spindle carries the weight and not the axle shaft.

hell to get the driveline to match up? you either get the the shaft made with the right yoke on one end or you call up high angle driveline and get there pinion flange and use your existing drive shaft and get it retubed. Been there, done that. Wasn't hell...

I could go on and on...

Robinhood150 · 02-05-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzfan1JC
Let me just tell you my goal.....and see what ya'll think..... I have two friends whom I ride with. My brother has a 97 Taco, 3 inch Revtek spacer lift, 3 inch body lift, and 32x11.50 SSR Swampers. My other friend has a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4 inch Rubicon Express lift (dang that thing will flex), and a rear locker. We ride as a little group, and it seems I always get left behind on the trail.

Based on this, you will be much more capable if you get front and rear lockers rather than SAS with open diffs. For instance, in the CO4RJ vid one of the Caskeys had an open diff 85 truck that had trouble on obstacles that all of the ifs, rear locked trucks just walked right over. Lockers will give you a much better return on investment than a SAS alone will.

With dual lockers you will blow away the taco (assuming he's open diffed or even locked rear) and you will give the GC a run for it's money.

02-02-2004, 06:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
fourwd1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: central Maryland Posts: 193	How much you have to do to the D44 depends on what vehicle it's from. You will probably have to redo the perchs, you may even have to narrow the axle. Why not just use a Toy axle, the D44 isn't any stronger. Either way you'll need a high-steer kit. You just replace the stock arms on the axle with the new ones, then install the rest. __________________ - - As seen in FOUR WHEELEER magazine July 2006, OFF-ROAD magazine Feb 2007 - - '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29s F&R, 4.7 t-case, drv train lift, Chevys, hi-steer, 30 spl Longs '80 something Toy P/U, Buick 231 V6, Holley 4 bbl, Weiand intake, Downey headers, custom TH350 L/U w/700R4 low gearset, dual tanks, dual batterys

02-02-2004, 08:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
ozzfan1JC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 26	5 inches I don't want to use the toy axle and have to deal with a 5 inch difference in width.... also I think the diff is on the wrong side for me. I have a 96 4Runner...

02-02-2004, 08:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
its2slo Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: portland oregon Posts: 704	it depends on what d44 you choose. __________________ jake

02-03-2004, 06:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
upndair Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Milton, WA Posts: 1,117	You're asking for help in the right place. In my opinion, the only dumb question was the one that you didn't ask. __________________ Gibby 1994 4Runnner 6" lift: Leaf spring conversion rear, SAS front. 1180 Ramp score. DANA 60s with ARB lockers 39x13.50 IROKs SBC 350, NP203 - NP205 Allpro bumpers and rock sliders. www.faithwheelers.com

02-03-2004, 08:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
lcopelan22 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Conyers, GA Posts: 131	"Hy Steer" and "Cross over Steering" are almost one in the same. You can get standard Crossover steering which leaves the tie rod under the leaf springs, or you can get Hy Crossover Steering that moves the tierod up over the springs. I know your gonna run a dana 44 but just for a general idea you can check out some X-over pics on a yota axle at Allprooffroad.com. This should give you an idea of how it works. Hope this helps. __________________ 87 SAS Toyota. HY-X-over Steering. BFG MT's. Saleen race seats. Last edited by lcopelan22; 02-03-2004 at 08:17 PM.

02-02-2004, 09:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
jruz Guest Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Bend, WA Posts: 1,093	Umm...do a search for the user "Breezey" as he recently did the SAS on his 1996 4Runner. Jim

02-03-2004, 06:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
ozzfan1JC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 26	OK....first things first... I haven't started the SAS (as I said in the first post) yet. I do know some about the swap, but all I want is a good number of opinions. I know that alot of the info is on the site already, but I want opinions from people, not just facts and information. About the "newly found" D44, a friend of mine told me he has an axle, but I haven't been able to go get it yet. That's why I was just curious how much work is going to have to be done on it. Also, I am not doing the SAS by myself. I have a friend who is going to do it with me, that knows plenty about this. I just can never catch him at home right now, because he works out of town alot, and also just had a baby boy. So his time is pretty occupied, and I don't want to bother him too much right now. It's just the "anticipation of articulation" is killin me!!! I know people just hate when I post a question about this, but I am really nervous about the road ahead. I don't know everything about this swap, but I do know some. The things I don't know are like "high-steer", and "crossover steering." Stuff like that, I have no clue of it. I wouldn't be so worried about possibly missing one little detail, but this is my everyday ride for now... I just wanted everyone's opinion that I could get to help me make my decision on whether to do it yet or not. I may even not worry about it, and start work on my 1967 Ford Fairlane 2-Door Hardtop. It may be a better way to go...... Who knows though? I guess people's opinions will help decide that. Thanx for the help everyone...

02-03-2004, 06:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
jruz Guest Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Bend, WA Posts: 1,093	I still think people were curious as to which D44 you are going to get from this friend...as they are not all created equal. (yup, there are different ones, as lame as that sounds) Jim

02-03-2004, 08:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
WATRD Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Duvall, WA Posts: 5,109	...and in addition to those, here's a photo of cross-over, hi-steer on a Waggy D44 axle that is almost clear enough to see everything up to the Pitman arm. Edit: It would help if I inserted the damn image __________________ -Rob Slightly Modified 2001 Tacoma - WATRD.COM WATTORA is becoming NWToys! Tread Lightly! certified Tread Trainer Search 100+ Toyota tech sites, including this one: Toyota Tech Search

02-04-2004, 07:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
ozzfan1JC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 26	My Goal... Let me just tell you my goal.....and see what ya'll think..... I have two friends whom I ride with. My brother has a 97 Taco, 3 inch Revtek spacer lift, 3 inch body lift, and 32x11.50 SSR Swampers. My other friend has a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4 inch Rubicon Express lift (dang that thing will flex), and a rear locker. We ride as a little group, and it seems I always get left behind on the trail. I want the SAS because I love flex. I loved the 4-link rear when I first got it, because I just think its neat to watch it going through a rut, and keepin the tires on the ground. However, this IFS front-end just isn't enough for me. Maybe if I had a big IFS lift, it would be better, but I don't wanna spend 2 grand on a lift, and not be satisfied. I'm sure you all know where I'm coming from. I have never done a SAS, but to be honest, I do all the work to my 4Runner. I also installed both lifts on my brother's Taco(along with help from him). The SAS looks complicated, but I honestly think I can do it. Like I said, a friend of mine has done a couple of swaps (a 90-sumthin Z71 sittin now on Dana 60's front and rear). He also has a jeep he has built.....well it used to be a jeep...lol. He said he will help me do it, but I guess I am just nervous about such a venture. I know I have asked repeat questions, but ya'll gotta bare with me..... I'm about to take that big leap....this is like marriage or sumthin.....(except life gets better with SAS) (I heard its sumtimes the other way around with marriage... lol). Thanx for all you guys help. It means alot. P.S. WATRD, I want my 4Runner sumthin like yours... maybe on 35's.......one day.... one day..... Last edited by ozzfan1JC; 02-04-2004 at 07:08 PM.

02-04-2004, 08:19 PM	#19 (permalink)
upndair Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Milton, WA Posts: 1,117	I think you just offended WATRD :o) Taco - 4Runner - Taco?? __________________ Gibby 1994 4Runnner 6" lift: Leaf spring conversion rear, SAS front. 1180 Ramp score. DANA 60s with ARB lockers 39x13.50 IROKs SBC 350, NP203 - NP205 Allpro bumpers and rock sliders. www.faithwheelers.com

02-04-2004, 08:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
WATRD Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Duvall, WA Posts: 5,109	I had never done a swap before either, but between ChrisCo and I and a lot of research, we muddled it out and I am QUITE happy with the end result. Gibby, the word it "flattered", not "offended" ehehehheheeh __________________ -Rob Slightly Modified 2001 Tacoma - WATRD.COM WATTORA is becoming NWToys! Tread Lightly! certified Tread Trainer Search 100+ Toyota tech sites, including this one: Toyota Tech Search

02-04-2004, 08:48 PM	#21 (permalink)
amusement Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,509	If I had to choose a Dana44 axel it would be from an old 60's International Harvester 1/2 truck. But, nothing says more than a Ford 9 inch axel from a late 70's ford pickup. My total preference would be a GMC heavy 1/2 ton pickup with Dana 60's. The width of the axel was correct but, brackets for brakes and springs would need to be fabbricated. Another disturbing problem is getting the wheel studs on the hub to match Toy rims. It would be more fabrication time and money. Why put yourself through so much hell trying to get drive lines to match or frabicated for the front using a Dana 44 without the installing a true beefy axel. Note: The front IFS axel is considered a full floating axel. Stronger than a normal Dana44 sem-floating axel. I understand there are some full floating Dana's but, there are from older rigs.

02-04-2004, 09:52 PM	#23 (permalink)
amusement Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,509	Thanks for the education. Most of the material i had listed in the previous post came from the Toyota Truck and LC bible. I will re-educate myself before speaking another word on dana axels.

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