Hey Jason...

ssbogger · 11-18-2003, 02:47 PM

Anyone is welcome to chime in, I just called out jason as he said earlier that he had installed a few of these and was pretty familiar with them.

I posted this over on the general topic forum but wasnt sure if you saw it. Its about my S/C:

" It worked great for about 100 miles, super fast! The only problem i had was pinging but i had expected that. Now after about 300 miles, its only a little faster than stock. It seems that when I get on it, it kind of 'bogs down'. I can feel the SC working but not like it should. It kinda jerks the car like its turning on and off or the S/C is turning on and off. I dont know what this could be but i took it by a dealership and they said it could be the mass air flow sensor. Check engine light is on and has been for about 6 months without any difference in power. I was wondering if anyone knows what this could be *cough* Gadget *cough* and/or could show me some pics of where you hooked up all the vacum lines to the SC, and what to cap off ect."

Update: I took it by the dealer and they said i had it all installed right. All vacume lines hooked up right and everything. I reset the ECU last night so the check engine light wasnt on and they said they needed that before we could find out any more potential problems.

Im just looking for any possible answers, thanks.

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WolfpackTLC · 11-18-2003, 07:14 PM

Definitely sounds ignition related... plugs are probably shot or worn... try that first. Maybe wire(s) going bad in your ignition? Trouble shoot the easy stuff first... you ARE running premium, RIGHT? I've only seen your problems once, and that was a combo of bad gas and bad plugs. Keep me posted.

J

NCSU-4runner · 11-18-2003, 08:27 PM

jason, you arent allowed to trouble shoot other trucks till mine is running again

ssbogger · 11-18-2003, 09:22 PM

Yeh im running premium. I filled up before i put the SC on. I just cant understand why this would happen right after i put it on. Im so confused.

turboale · 11-19-2003, 09:55 AM

Does it idle rough or anything? Does it sound like its misfiring or anything? I had an ignition coil go bad on me a few months ago. Doesn't sound like your problem, but just thought I would throw that out. What codes did they get off the check engine light? They/you can check the MAF with a volt meter to see if that is the problem.

A little OT, but i'm not jacking the thread. I met (who is now a friend of mine) has a truck exactly like yours at home. His parents won't let him bring it to school yet though b/c he hit a tree while 4wheeling and they hadn't had it fixed when he came down to school. Hes had a daystar lift with an S/C your color sport. He had a crazy system too. The only difference is he had wheels like Keisur. Just thougth I would share... good luck with the S/C. Now its time for some bigger injectors!!

Stump1883 · 11-21-2003, 08:02 AM

Oh yeah , 4ROC is getting more power, grunt grunt.

. Jason, now Sam, and soon to be Jeremy. Shweeeeeeeeeet. Makes me wish I could actually keep my 3rd gen. It's all good eventually I'll find an 85' so maybe my solid axel will make up for the lack of power.

Good luck with your charger Sam, wish I knew more about them so I could help ya out. The only thing I would think to look at would be just as Jason said, spark plugs and wires. Any time I have ever had a jerking feeling or lagging problem it has always been plugs or wires. It's always better to start small, and even if they we're the problems at least you know you got new ones. Keep us posted on what it actually turns out to be.

WolfpackTLC · 11-21-2003, 08:29 AM

Any more luck? After reading your post again, it seems that it could also be a clogged or stuck injector... it's definitely a fuel delivery and/or ignition related problem. Unfortunately I can't call it unless I see/drive your rig... but it sounds like either one. Try checking your fuel pump and fuel filter for efficiency and/or blockage. Then check the injector's resistance, and if you can, have someone check their spray/duty cycle. That's all I can offer for the injectors... the ignition is pretty straightforward as well... try the plugs first, then the wires, and finally the coils. Hope that helps somehow, although all I did was state the obvious.

Jason

ssbogger · 11-21-2003, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WolfpackTLC
Any more luck? After reading your post again, it seems that it could also be a clogged or stuck injector... it's definitely a fuel delivery and/or ignition related problem. Unfortunately I can't call it unless I see/drive your rig... but it sounds like either one. Try checking your fuel pump and fuel filter for efficiency and/or blockage. Then check the injector's resistance, and if you can, have someone check their spray/duty cycle. That's all I can offer for the injectors... the ignition is pretty straightforward as well... try the plugs first, then the wires, and finally the coils. Hope that helps somehow, although all I did was state the obvious.

Jason

No more luck, in fact it just seems to be getting worse.

First off, I'm not sure how to check the fuel pump and fuel filter for efficiency or blockage. I dont even know where they are. I havent had much time to get familiar with toyotas but on my old truck i thought the pump was in the gas tank.

I think my dad might know how to check the injectors resistance if your talking about electrical resistance.

The thing that sucks is that i spent every penny to my name on this damn thing and now dont have the cash to fix this problem. So i have to wait to fix it, or to start replacing in hopes of fixing it. Ill keep yall posted.

WolfpackTLC · 11-21-2003, 02:51 PM

Yup... check the impedence on the injectors...all you need is a good meter... As for the filter and the pump, all you need is a FSM ( factory service manual ) for that. When was the last time you changed your filter vs. the recommended mileage between changes of your fuel filter? The filter isn't that expensive.. maybe $40 or so, I can't remember. Then you can use the FSM's procedure for testing the fuel pump. It's probably like all the others, using 12v to check it... it's not hard to get to, and you can probably use a meter to check resistance as well... Although I'd probably remove it and clean it just to be safe from any accidental ignition of gas.

ssbogger · 11-30-2003, 08:51 PM

alright. the check engine code said it was misfiring. I went and bought new spark plugs and changed them out. The old ones were burnt up. I wanted to get colder ones but not a single store had them. I can tell after another 200 miles that these are going bad too. Will the colder plugs solve this? Maybe if i get a new thermostat too? Is this a normal thing to happen?

WolfpackTLC · 11-30-2003, 09:35 PM

Are the tips white or brown or black? I need to know this to properly diagnose your problem. Please describe EXACTLY how they look. (i.e. picture)

J

ssbogger · 11-30-2003, 10:32 PM

well i threw them away :pat:

but i do remember that they weren't fouled. I know im running lean. They were more of a light brown or tan color. Closer to white than brown but still a little brown. Kinda like the color you would expect to see on a life-time smoker's teeth.

WolfpackTLC · 12-01-2003, 08:36 AM

Well yes, you're definitely running lean, but it's got to be an interesting mixture, what with the thinner but colder air charge combined w/ the obvious effects of the S/C. Hmm. Either way, colder plugs will help, but probably won't cure your problem. Sounds like you definitely need either an AIC (additional injector controller) or some sort of add-on box ( from Greddy, Apexi or HKS) to modify your fuel maps and injector pulse-width. A larger fuel pump may also be necessary to complement the injectors. Rising rate fuel regulators suck. Stay away.

J

NCSU-4runner · 12-01-2003, 10:24 PM

jason, quit goofing off on forums at work so you can actually PICK UP MY ENGINE BEFORE THE CALENDAR YEAR IS OVER.

yes i am slightly disgruntled, hope the S/C comes around for ya eventually

ssbogger · 12-14-2003, 11:47 AM

In another one of my threads someone posted this:

Quote:

This thread makes me cringe. A lean condition like this is certain death to an engine. Anyway, I just wanted to comment that when I was running sans 7th injector kit I could not open up the deck plate cover w/o experiencing poor-er performance. Now that I have installed the 7th injector kit and simultaneously opened up the deckplate, I experienced one level of performance. HOWEVER, after I removed the OE paper filter and installed the AMSOIL filter the performance improved noticeably. What all this tells me is that the tuning and fuel table parameters are very sensitive to any changes in the air induction. If it were me experiencing a lean condition to such a degree as described by this owner I would stop driving the truck and go back to square one with all engine mods and/or hunt down the cause of the misfire code. I am really sorry for your trouble.

Should i be this worried?

WolfpackTLC · 12-14-2003, 05:11 PM

Lean is bad, yes... But you're running lean to the point of killing the plugs BEFORE you burn through your rings and/or pistons. But he's right, Lean is BAD... " certain death " is possible. Too rich would definitely be better. You should give that thing more fuel (i.e. larger injector, OR and additional injector, OR a fuel controller) as soon as possible.

J

Hyperlite · 12-14-2003, 10:00 PM

SS,
First: the guys at Toyota of Boone are dumb as rocks.
Second: check the intake. Do you have the deckplate mod? I have read about too much air flow causing the mix to be to rich with oxygen, causing rough running. Are you sure you have the vacume hoses connected correctly.
Third: Buy new wires and install them via a service manual and not by the way you have them, even if it looks correct. Probibly not the problem, but it couldn't hurt to add new stuff.
Fourth run and engine stabilizer such as Lucas. I ran lucasafter I did this and changed my plugs and oil a half a dozen times and it started running right (after a week of cleaning)

:pat:

Hyperlite · 12-14-2003, 10:10 PM

This charge was on Ebay with this "Fuel Upgrade Package"

(6) RC Engineering 370cc Fuel Injectors & (6) Injector Insulators $601.50
Walbro HP 190 LPH Fuel Pump $114.45
Perfect Power SMT-6 Fuel/Timing Calibrator $335
Perfect Power Windows-Based Tuning Software
Supra TT MAF Sensor $75
(6) Two-Step Colder Spark Plugs $68.08
TRD 160 Degree Thermostat $55.06
EBay

WolfpackTLC · 12-14-2003, 11:22 PM

Quote:

TRD 160 Degree Thermostat $55.06

You'll wanna stay away from that one... it's been proven that a 160 thermostat is BAD for engine longevity. FYI.

The rest of that stuff sounds pretty good, although I'd go w/ a more established company than PP.

ssbogger · 12-15-2003, 04:06 PM

Well damn. Ive had the deckplate closed before i put the SC on. I guess now i'll reverse the ISR mod. What is the best bang for the buck fuel mod i can do that would help me with this problem? Im talking under $200. Im tight on money this year. Some people might not be getting Christmas presents.

Hyperlite · 12-15-2003, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ssbogger
Well damn. Ive had the deckplate closed before i put the SC on. I guess now i'll reverse the ISR mod.

conused, do you have the deckplate closed if not then Ding Ding Ding, before you reverse the ISR, put the deckplate in and see what that does

turboale · 12-16-2003, 09:23 AM

Um jon..? are you

?

He said he closed it before he put the s/c in so it must be closed now...

ssbogger · 12-16-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by turboale
Um jon..? are you ?

He said he closed it before he put the s/c in so it must be closed now...

Austin's right. Its been closed since before the SC. Now I know im STILL getting too much air so ima gonna reverse the ISR too.

Again, can anyone tell me the best fuel mod under 200?

WolfpackTLC · 12-16-2003, 04:00 PM

You can probably find a used HKS F-CON or a Greddy Rebic on Ebay for around $200. I doubt you'll find any of the newer HKS or Greddy stuff... definitely not any of the Apexi stuff... I'd highly doubt it anyway. Both of the aforementioned units are fuel controllers. Just my .02

J

evilcow · 01-03-2004, 08:08 PM

I just saw this and remembered the problems you have been having I hope this helps. http://www.urdusa.com/Merchant2/merc...Store_Code=URD

11-18-2003, 07:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	Definitely sounds ignition related... plugs are probably shot or worn... try that first. Maybe wire(s) going bad in your ignition? Trouble shoot the easy stuff first... you ARE running premium, RIGHT? I've only seen your problems once, and that was a combo of bad gas and bad plugs. Keep me posted. J __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

11-18-2003, 08:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
NCSU-4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 1,597	jason, you arent allowed to trouble shoot other trucks till mine is running again __________________ Jeremy, 94 4Runner Turbo Leaf Spring SAS front - Coilover 4link rear (starts December) / Supra Swap My Truck is featured on Supracharged.com - Home of the original Supra swap and Forum One of two things will happen, I will die, or the truck will be finished. I'm not sure which will be first.

11-18-2003, 09:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
ssbogger Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: James Island/ChuckTown, SC Posts: 699	Yeh im running premium. I filled up before i put the SC on. I just cant understand why this would happen right after i put it on. Im so confused. __________________ 2004 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer Small system '99 4runner SOLD Lifted, SC'd, etc... 2002 Tacoma SOLD Lifted, System, etc...

11-19-2003, 09:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
turboale Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 4,836	Does it idle rough or anything? Does it sound like its misfiring or anything? I had an ignition coil go bad on me a few months ago. Doesn't sound like your problem, but just thought I would throw that out. What codes did they get off the check engine light? They/you can check the MAF with a volt meter to see if that is the problem. A little OT, but i'm not jacking the thread. I met (who is now a friend of mine) has a truck exactly like yours at home. His parents won't let him bring it to school yet though b/c he hit a tree while 4wheeling and they hadn't had it fixed when he came down to school. Hes had a daystar lift with an S/C your color sport. He had a crazy system too. The only difference is he had wheels like Keisur. Just thougth I would share... good luck with the S/C. Now its time for some bigger injectors!! __________________ --Austin RHaus NYC 06 M45 Sport - Beauty 96 4Runner - The Beast Last edited by turboale; 11-19-2003 at 10:14 AM.

11-21-2003, 08:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
Stump1883 Contributing Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: High Point NC Posts: 2,150	Oh yeah , 4ROC is getting more power, grunt grunt. . Jason, now Sam, and soon to be Jeremy. Shweeeeeeeeeet. Makes me wish I could actually keep my 3rd gen. It's all good eventually I'll find an 85' so maybe my solid axel will make up for the lack of power. Good luck with your charger Sam, wish I knew more about them so I could help ya out. The only thing I would think to look at would be just as Jason said, spark plugs and wires. Any time I have ever had a jerking feeling or lagging problem it has always been plugs or wires. It's always better to start small, and even if they we're the problems at least you know you got new ones. Keep us posted on what it actually turns out to be. __________________ 97' 4Runner LTD -With a few toys

11-21-2003, 08:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	Any more luck? After reading your post again, it seems that it could also be a clogged or stuck injector... it's definitely a fuel delivery and/or ignition related problem. Unfortunately I can't call it unless I see/drive your rig... but it sounds like either one. Try checking your fuel pump and fuel filter for efficiency and/or blockage. Then check the injector's resistance, and if you can, have someone check their spray/duty cycle. That's all I can offer for the injectors... the ignition is pretty straightforward as well... try the plugs first, then the wires, and finally the coils. Hope that helps somehow, although all I did was state the obvious. Jason __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

11-21-2003, 02:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	Yup... check the impedence on the injectors...all you need is a good meter... As for the filter and the pump, all you need is a FSM ( factory service manual ) for that. When was the last time you changed your filter vs. the recommended mileage between changes of your fuel filter? The filter isn't that expensive.. maybe $40 or so, I can't remember. Then you can use the FSM's procedure for testing the fuel pump. It's probably like all the others, using 12v to check it... it's not hard to get to, and you can probably use a meter to check resistance as well... Although I'd probably remove it and clean it just to be safe from any accidental ignition of gas. __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

11-30-2003, 08:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
ssbogger Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: James Island/ChuckTown, SC Posts: 699	alright. the check engine code said it was misfiring. I went and bought new spark plugs and changed them out. The old ones were burnt up. I wanted to get colder ones but not a single store had them. I can tell after another 200 miles that these are going bad too. Will the colder plugs solve this? Maybe if i get a new thermostat too? Is this a normal thing to happen? __________________ 2004 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer Small system '99 4runner SOLD Lifted, SC'd, etc... 2002 Tacoma SOLD Lifted, System, etc...

11-30-2003, 09:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	Are the tips white or brown or black? I need to know this to properly diagnose your problem. Please describe EXACTLY how they look. (i.e. picture) J __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

11-30-2003, 10:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
ssbogger Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: James Island/ChuckTown, SC Posts: 699	well i threw them away :pat: but i do remember that they weren't fouled. I know im running lean. They were more of a light brown or tan color. Closer to white than brown but still a little brown. Kinda like the color you would expect to see on a life-time smoker's teeth. __________________ 2004 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer Small system '99 4runner SOLD Lifted, SC'd, etc... 2002 Tacoma SOLD Lifted, System, etc...

12-01-2003, 08:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	Well yes, you're definitely running lean, but it's got to be an interesting mixture, what with the thinner but colder air charge combined w/ the obvious effects of the S/C. Hmm. Either way, colder plugs will help, but probably won't cure your problem. Sounds like you definitely need either an AIC (additional injector controller) or some sort of add-on box ( from Greddy, Apexi or HKS) to modify your fuel maps and injector pulse-width. A larger fuel pump may also be necessary to complement the injectors. Rising rate fuel regulators suck. Stay away. J __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

12-01-2003, 10:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
NCSU-4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 1,597	jason, quit goofing off on forums at work so you can actually PICK UP MY ENGINE BEFORE THE CALENDAR YEAR IS OVER. yes i am slightly disgruntled, hope the S/C comes around for ya eventually __________________ Jeremy, 94 4Runner Turbo Leaf Spring SAS front - Coilover 4link rear (starts December) / Supra Swap My Truck is featured on Supracharged.com - Home of the original Supra swap and Forum One of two things will happen, I will die, or the truck will be finished. I'm not sure which will be first. Last edited by NCSU-4runner; 12-01-2003 at 10:26 PM.

12-14-2003, 05:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	Lean is bad, yes... But you're running lean to the point of killing the plugs BEFORE you burn through your rings and/or pistons. But he's right, Lean is BAD... " certain death " is possible. Too rich would definitely be better. You should give that thing more fuel (i.e. larger injector, OR and additional injector, OR a fuel controller) as soon as possible. J __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

12-14-2003, 10:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
Hyperlite Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mooresville (Lake Norman) NC Posts: 1,028	SS, First: the guys at Toyota of Boone are dumb as rocks. Second: check the intake. Do you have the deckplate mod? I have read about too much air flow causing the mix to be to rich with oxygen, causing rough running. Are you sure you have the vacume hoses connected correctly. Third: Buy new wires and install them via a service manual and not by the way you have them, even if it looks correct. Probibly not the problem, but it couldn't hurt to add new stuff. Fourth run and engine stabilizer such as Lucas. I ran lucasafter I did this and changed my plugs and oil a half a dozen times and it started running right (after a week of cleaning) :pat: __________________ 97 4Runner Limited front Fox 16" Coilovers 98 BMW M Roadster 69 Bronco Half Cab

12-14-2003, 10:10 PM	#18 (permalink)
Hyperlite Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mooresville (Lake Norman) NC Posts: 1,028	This charge was on Ebay with this "Fuel Upgrade Package" (6) RC Engineering 370cc Fuel Injectors & (6) Injector Insulators $601.50 Walbro HP 190 LPH Fuel Pump $114.45 Perfect Power SMT-6 Fuel/Timing Calibrator $335 Perfect Power Windows-Based Tuning Software Supra TT MAF Sensor $75 (6) Two-Step Colder Spark Plugs $68.08 TRD 160 Degree Thermostat $55.06 EBay __________________ 97 4Runner Limited front Fox 16" Coilovers 98 BMW M Roadster 69 Bronco Half Cab

12-15-2003, 04:06 PM	#20 (permalink)
ssbogger Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: James Island/ChuckTown, SC Posts: 699	Well damn. Ive had the deckplate closed before i put the SC on. I guess now i'll reverse the ISR mod. What is the best bang for the buck fuel mod i can do that would help me with this problem? Im talking under $200. Im tight on money this year. Some people might not be getting Christmas presents. __________________ 2004 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer Small system '99 4runner SOLD Lifted, SC'd, etc... 2002 Tacoma SOLD Lifted, System, etc...

12-16-2003, 09:23 AM	#22 (permalink)
turboale Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 4,836	Um jon..? are you ? He said he closed it before he put the s/c in so it must be closed now... __________________ --Austin RHaus NYC 06 M45 Sport - Beauty 96 4Runner - The Beast

12-16-2003, 04:00 PM	#24 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	You can probably find a used HKS F-CON or a Greddy Rebic on Ebay for around $200. I doubt you'll find any of the newer HKS or Greddy stuff... definitely not any of the Apexi stuff... I'd highly doubt it anyway. Both of the aforementioned units are fuel controllers. Just my .02 J __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

01-03-2004, 08:08 PM	#25 (permalink)
evilcow Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 499	I just saw this and remembered the problems you have been having I hope this helps. http://www.urdusa.com/Merchant2/merc...Store_Code=URD __________________ Dave 94' 4x4 Xtracab 22RE 5spd 4ROC NC My Truck's Webpage

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