winching over

Ric · 09-12-2007, 11:27 PM

we get talking about this on every run, whats your thoughts ?

1) If you winch over an obstical is that cheating ?
2) Does that count as making the obstical ?

IMO, If I have to winch over something, I dont count that as "making the obstical"

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nix4x4 · 09-13-2007, 12:05 AM

Winching, in my opinion, is almost like cheating. It's admitting that you can't get through/over/up an obstacle and you just wanna "bypass" said obstacle. I think that winching is a necessity and sometimes the only way out of a situation, butits really not something you can brag about.

stormin94 · 09-13-2007, 12:14 AM

Interesting posts... I believe that winching is a little like cheating. But if your stuck in the mud, and it comes down to either winching, or digging out, or worse yet: getting towed out by a F*RD or a Jeep

. If I had one, I'd probably use it a couple times rather than get body damage on my rig(it is my Daily driver, too afterall). Winching is, In my opinion, NOT cheating if you use it to help other fellow wheelers, or to winch stuff off the trail. If you winch a fallen tree off the trail(if you don't carry a chainsaw) or help winch a boulder out of the way, that's not cheating in my opinion. Winches are the ultimate in self recovery, but they should be used in moderation, and only when you really need them, esp if your safety, or other's safety may be compromised by NOT using the winch.

Knuckles · 09-13-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Winching, in my opinion, is almost like cheating. It's admitting that you can't get through/over/up an obstacle and you just wanna "bypass" said obstacle. I think that winching is a necessity and sometimes the only way out of a situation, butits really not something you can brag about.

i agree with nix on this, i think it is 'cheating' and admitting you cant make it over it without a winch, i bought my winch more for peace of mind than anything else.

Ric · 09-13-2007, 08:09 AM

very good thoughts

keep them coming.

tc · 09-13-2007, 08:12 AM

If you have to modify the obstacle, I don't think you made it. That includes stacking rocks, and 90% of the time, I would not count it as making the obstacle if you had to winch or be strapped.

The 10% would be where the obstacle was SO extreme and the possibility of severe injury or death significant enough that you had to at least hook up the winch/strap as a safety. I would call that good 'wheeling.

nc994run · 09-13-2007, 08:16 AM

I don't necessarily think it's cheating, but it's not making it up an obstacle. Considering that the winch (assuming it's on your truck and not being winched by another vehicle) is part of the modifications you've done to your vehicle, I see it as that you got up an obstacle using only what was done to your rig. It is definitely not the same as making it up the obstacle without any help (other than that of lockers, crawler box, etc) but I don't think it is cheating. There are some instances where you only need to winch to get over a small part of the obstacle and continue to do the rest without help of a winch .... my 2 cents

hanksyota · 09-13-2007, 09:23 AM

i pretty much agree with everyone. i dont think youve "made it" if you winch or are strapped. now, like tc said, if its a matter of flopping or some other safety reason, by all means, strap up/winch up. even then i dont think you've "made it". i wouldnt call it cheating though. more like a helping hand.

04 Rocko Taco · 09-13-2007, 09:30 AM

If you can only make forward progress through the use of a winch (or strapped to another rig) then you did not make the obstacle. If you have to strap or winch to something to keep from flipping, but are still moving forward under the power of your wheels, then I would still call it 'making' the obstacle.

But i can also see the point of you modified your rig with a winch, so why is that any more cheating that driving over it? you modified those axles, and tires, and suspension, so why not include the winch along in the 'capabilities' of the vehicle?

Flygtenstein · 09-13-2007, 09:31 AM

Like when you "make it" through a trail on bypasses and rock stacking?

If you need a string, take it.

If you are keeping score, too bad.

Ric · 09-13-2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

if its a matter of flopping or some other safety reason, by all means, strap up/winch up.

I totally agree with the "safty factor" hes a pic of when I felt real uneasy, (pucker meter was pegged, lol)

and better pic, you can see the line here:

Thats part of Canrange, I "think" its called Firemans Hill, not sure though, looked ok, so I went for it, got to just before the first pic, and I got scared,

so out came the line, I really dont want to flop it or roll it, (not yet anyways

)

Quote:

If you have to strap or winch to something to keep from flipping, but are still moving forward under the power of your wheels, then I would still call it 'making' the obstacle.

well here, I drove up it, under my own power, kepping the line nicely snug, talk about a little scary lol But, I really dont count it as making it. thats just me

Intersting views, I appreciate them.

Red3.slow · 09-13-2007, 12:20 PM

I'm out wheeling to have fun most of the time. After the night I had the other day if anything happens the line is coming out.

Rock Slide · 09-14-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric

well here, I drove up it, under my own power, kepping the line nicely snug, talk about a little scary lol But, I really dont count it as making it. thats just me

Intersting views, I appreciate them.

For me, a winch serves 2 purposes:

1. Recovery - To use your winch in such a way to help out a fellow wheeler. For example, winching someone out who is either stuck or broke.
2. Aide - To use your winch in such a way it either frees your truck from a sticky situation or it assists you up and over an obstacle. For example, winching yourself over a rock or out of the mud.

I agree w/ Ric. If I have to use a winch for anything that would fall under "Purpose 2", then I don't consider it making the obstacle. Even if I know I can make the hill, but insist on using the winch line to keep my wheels grounded, I still don't consider it making the obstacle. If I knew I could make the obstacle w/o the fear of flipping my truck, then I would not be using the winch line. Yeah, it's a good idea to use the winch for this situation, but I don't brag to my buddies I "made" the hill climb. IMO, a winch is the last resort if all else fails, thus pulling it out, in my book, is referred to as not making it.

Just as moving big rocks to your advantage to clear bigger rocks. If I moved the landscape every time I went offroad so it was to my advantage, then there would never be a challenge. I'm not saying I don't move the landscape to my favor, I'm just saying I don't consider this making the obstacle either. That's part of the joy to going off road. You can go to the same place over and over and the conditons are always changing. It's knowing where that fine line is between knowing what your truck can and cannnot do. That's part of the excitement of wheelin'.

09-13-2007, 12:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
nix4x4 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: I'm an Ohio boy! Posts: 1,212	Winching, in my opinion, is almost like cheating. It's admitting that you can't get through/over/up an obstacle and you just wanna "bypass" said obstacle. I think that winching is a necessity and sometimes the only way out of a situation, butits really not something you can brag about. __________________ 1992 Xtra Cab 3.0/5-speed Work in progress..

09-13-2007, 12:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
stormin94 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lake County, CA/Sacramento Posts: 3,539	Interesting posts... I believe that winching is a little like cheating. But if your stuck in the mud, and it comes down to either winching, or digging out, or worse yet: getting towed out by a F*RD or a Jeep . If I had one, I'd probably use it a couple times rather than get body damage on my rig(it is my Daily driver, too afterall). Winching is, In my opinion, NOT cheating if you use it to help other fellow wheelers, or to winch stuff off the trail. If you winch a fallen tree off the trail(if you don't carry a chainsaw) or help winch a boulder out of the way, that's not cheating in my opinion. Winches are the ultimate in self recovery, but they should be used in moderation, and only when you really need them, esp if your safety, or other's safety may be compromised by NOT using the winch. __________________ 1994 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4X4 213,000 miles and counting 3.0 V6, 5 speed 10/15 MPG city/hwy(with 33's) Current Mods Headers, 2.5" Flowmaster custom exhaust, K&N FIPK KC Daylighter 100 Watt lights Ranchos x4, 2" Lift Downey coils 33-12.50 M/T's, 1" t-bar lift, 1" body lift Tow pkg w/ lighthookups Silverstar Headlights, Pioneer Deck w/XM Brushguard 250Watt JLAudio 8" W3 Sub Future Mods 12V Aux outlet-400/800peak inverter roof basket/lights Air locker 4.88 gears H.O. Alternator

09-13-2007, 08:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,376	If you have to modify the obstacle, I don't think you made it. That includes stacking rocks, and 90% of the time, I would not count it as making the obstacle if you had to winch or be strapped. The 10% would be where the obstacle was SO extreme and the possibility of severe injury or death significant enough that you had to at least hook up the winch/strap as a safety. I would call that good 'wheeling. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-13-2007, 08:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
nc994run Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: blacksburg,va for school chapel hill, nc for home Posts: 985	I don't necessarily think it's cheating, but it's not making it up an obstacle. Considering that the winch (assuming it's on your truck and not being winched by another vehicle) is part of the modifications you've done to your vehicle, I see it as that you got up an obstacle using only what was done to your rig. It is definitely not the same as making it up the obstacle without any help (other than that of lockers, crawler box, etc) but I don't think it is cheating. There are some instances where you only need to winch to get over a small part of the obstacle and continue to do the rest without help of a winch .... my 2 cents __________________ Rob 1999 4Runner Limited 4x4, retrofitted e-locker/ ARB front locker with 4.88 Precision Gears, Tundra/LC lift, 2" 4Crawler BL, Nitto Mud Grappler 35's on 16x8, Marlin sliders, TJM T-15, Warn M8000 w/ synthetic line, Mad Mike's custom rear Bumper, deckplate and ISR mods, Vortex Muffler, custom made tube doors pictures here I support Banned Neliconcept

09-13-2007, 09:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
04 Rocko Taco Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 4,070	If you can only make forward progress through the use of a winch (or strapped to another rig) then you did not make the obstacle. If you have to strap or winch to something to keep from flipping, but are still moving forward under the power of your wheels, then I would still call it 'making' the obstacle. But i can also see the point of you modified your rig with a winch, so why is that any more cheating that driving over it? you modified those axles, and tires, and suspension, so why not include the winch along in the 'capabilities' of the vehicle? __________________ -Chris Tread Lightly! 04 Double Cab PreRunner. 3.4 - Auto 84 4Runner 4WD. 22R - 5 spd Lifted, Locked, 33x12.50 Disclaimer:My Photobucket is being revamped. If there are broken links, shoot me a PM. Thanks. ~Chris Great Toyota Tech

09-13-2007, 08:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ric Banned - User requested Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: earth Posts: 4,494	very good thoughts keep them coming.

09-13-2007, 09:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
hanksyota Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: denver, co Posts: 421	i pretty much agree with everyone. i dont think youve "made it" if you winch or are strapped. now, like tc said, if its a matter of flopping or some other safety reason, by all means, strap up/winch up. even then i dont think you've "made it". i wouldnt call it cheating though. more like a helping hand.

09-13-2007, 09:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	Like when you "make it" through a trail on bypasses and rock stacking? If you need a string, take it. If you are keeping score, too bad. __________________ Ease on down the road.

09-13-2007, 12:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
Red3.slow Contributing Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Little Rock, Ar Posts: 1,182	I'm out wheeling to have fun most of the time. After the night I had the other day if anything happens the line is coming out. __________________ -Miles -Firefighter/EMT T.E.A Taxed Enough Already

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