stevrock, you were going to define "human life."

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:24 PM

Go ahead.
I know you won't.
How?
Because your definition will include the unborn at some point in gestation.
Be it heartbeat or brain activity...at some point prior to birth a baby becomes human by definition. Which implies that it should be protected under constitutional law.
Human life is not defined by geography. Are you not human if you live in a bubble with tubes keeping you alive?
Even abortion providers admit they are ending human life.
The law seems to be re-defining human life in the most applicable way.
1. Is the life wanted? If the mother wants the baby and the baby is killed prior to birth, murder charges can be brought in most states.
2. If the baby is unwanted. It can be killed up to and even after it is born in most states.
Obama even goes so far as to say that an unwanted baby should be dealt with (decision to kill it) after birth by joint decision between mother and doctor.
So Human Life really is not the issue.
Law is the issue.

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GenXr · 02-23-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mogger

2. If the baby is unwanted. It can be killed up to and even after it is born in most states.
Obama even goes so far as to say that an unwanted baby should be dealt with (decision to kill it) after birth by joint decision between mother and doctor.
So Human Life really is not the issue.
Law is the issue.

I've never heard of this before, is this true? If it is, it is appalling.

There are too may couples willing and wanting to adopt a baby for it just to be "discarded" like that.

stevrock · 02-23-2008, 06:33 PM

Back up the tracks here...

A fetus becomes a human when it's born.

Once born, it is no longer an abortion, it's murder.
Once born, it gains Human Rights.

Human Life, (depending on what you want to hear) could take years to define.

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevrock

By definition, the object in a woman's womb is a fetus until it is born.
After the process of birth, then it becomes a baby. A living person.

This fetus would happen to be a human, if it were living.

These are not definitions I am pulling out of the air. They are things that I have learned over the years, and in school.

If you want the definition of human life, which is extremely far and spans a wide distance, you can feel free to educated yourself on the subject courtesy of www.google.com

I am sure you did learn them in school. But there are people in US prisons for killing unborn babies. Difference is that their mothers wanted them and lost them in a car accident or something. The drunk/careless driver or whatever is charged with negligent homicide of a human PERSON.

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenXr

I've never heard of this before, is this true? If it is, it is appalling.

There are too may couples willing and wanting to adopt a baby for it just to be "discarded" like that.

Yep..Obama voted against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act.
Check it out. Makes me sick.

Paul H. · 02-23-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mogger

Go ahead.
I2. If the baby is unwanted. It can be killed up to and even after it is born in most states.

I do believe that is a complete lie. How about showing proof on this.

Paul H. · 02-23-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mogger

Yep..Obama voted against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act.
Check it out. Makes me sick.

Once again, how about some proof of this statement. Never heard of that act.

stevrock · 02-23-2008, 06:43 PM

You caught it before the edit.

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:44 PM

read all about the many states conferring human rights to the unborn:

Yep.
stevrock
you are welcome to try again.

http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:46 PM

WASHINGTON (April 5, 2004) – By a vote of 6-1, the California Supreme Court on April 5 upheld a murder conviction of a man who shot a pregnant woman to death, and then argued that he had not known she was pregnant.

Harold Taylor was convicted of two counts of murder in the 1999 shooting deaths of Patty Fensler and her 11-week to 13-week-old unborn child. A state appeals court reversed the fetal homicide conviction, saying the law did not apply to Taylor because he was not aware of the pregnancy. The California Supreme Court reinstated the conviction, ruling that it is not necessary for the state to prove that an attacker knew of the existence of a fetal victim, as long as the state proves criminal intent towards some victim.

So it is only murder if the baby is wanted.

stevrock · 02-23-2008, 06:46 PM

It's already changed.

A quick look about the Act showed that one person who opposed it did so because he didn't have sufficient time to research laws.

Is it possible that Obama opposed it for a reason other then him hating babies?

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:47 PM

paging stevrock

you were saying....

What was that definition you learned in school?
Where should I go to look up answers that will educate me?

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevrock

It's already changed.

A quick look about the Act showed that one person who opposed it did so because he didn't have sufficient time to research laws.

Is it possible that Obama opposed it for a reason other then him hating babies?

He says why he opposed it.
He says it is a decision between a mother and the doctor. Keep in mind, he clearly explains this is post birth.
I can quote him if you'd like.

stevrock · 02-23-2008, 06:51 PM

You can search the interweb.

The problem with me trying to find an answer to support what is defined as human life is very vague, which is why I'm not answering it.

I could go say it is anything with opposable thumbs and an upright posture, when this is not useful to the debate.
Neither would saying it has to be Homo Sapiens.

Paul H. · 02-23-2008, 06:52 PM

Please do and provide the link.

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul H.

Please do and provide the link.

I'll keep looking but for now...:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.p...8647#continueA

BTW, even Hillary supported the bill that would protect babies that survived the abortion process, after they were delivered from the birth canal. But not Obama. Hmmmmm.
Nice guy.

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevrock

You can search the interweb.

The problem with me trying to find an answer to support what is defined as human life is very vague, which is why I'm not answering it.

Defining what constitutes human life is vague? Or maybe you are just not honest enough to attempt.
Here I will do it for you.
A human life: A human that is not dead. Death, defined medically is the absence of brain activity.
So brain activity defines life.
Problem for you, ain't it.

Paul H. · 02-23-2008, 07:01 PM

I have no problems with his views on that. Remember, abortion is still legal in this country whether you like it or not and any bill that tries to restrict that should be put down.

stevrock · 02-23-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mogger

Defining what constitutes human life is vague? Or maybe you are just not honest enough to attempt.
Here I will do it for you.
A human life: A human that is not dead. Death, defined medically is the absence of brain activity.
So brain activity defines life.
Problem for you, ain't it.

Explain Terri Schiavo then.

I think the start of life is the item in question.
The answer is after birth.

4Mogger · 02-23-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul H.

I have no problems with his views on that. Remember, abortion is still legal in this country whether you like it or not and any bill that tries to restrict that should be put down.

Oh. Nice. Guess you would not care to define what you would consider "human life" that should fall under the protection of the US Constitution either?

Just throw bombs out there with no explanation?
A baby that survives an abortion and is born? Like Obama, you think it should be up to the mother and doctor to decide?

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02-23-2008, 06:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
4Mogger Banned Vendor Sales Rating: (0) [OP] Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Montrose, CO Posts: 636	read all about the many states conferring human rights to the unborn: Yep. stevrock you are welcome to try again. http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/

02-23-2008, 06:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
4Mogger Banned Vendor Sales Rating: (0) [OP] Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Montrose, CO Posts: 636	WASHINGTON (April 5, 2004) – By a vote of 6-1, the California Supreme Court on April 5 upheld a murder conviction of a man who shot a pregnant woman to death, and then argued that he had not known she was pregnant. Harold Taylor was convicted of two counts of murder in the 1999 shooting deaths of Patty Fensler and her 11-week to 13-week-old unborn child. A state appeals court reversed the fetal homicide conviction, saying the law did not apply to Taylor because he was not aware of the pregnancy. The California Supreme Court reinstated the conviction, ruling that it is not necessary for the state to prove that an attacker knew of the existence of a fetal victim, as long as the state proves criminal intent towards some victim. So it is only murder if the baby is wanted.

02-23-2008, 06:47 PM	#12 (permalink)
4Mogger Banned Vendor Sales Rating: (0) [OP] Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Montrose, CO Posts: 636	paging stevrock you were saying.... What was that definition you learned in school? Where should I go to look up answers that will educate me?