No Ammo = No Guns

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 10:54 PM

Let me start off by saying that this is in no means a political discussion.
If it turns that direction I'll axe the thread.

I was at work the other day and a buddy of mine came in saying, "Hey, good luck finding ammo for your Sig."
I said, "Yeah I know, right? I'm just waiting for the hype to die down."

He showed me a sheet of paper, not sure where he got it, but it was a plan that was supposedly outlined by Obama.

I don't know it word for word or the exact details, or whether it's even legit which is reason I wanted to post it.

Basically the new government is going to require a unique serial number to be given to each and every bullet (shell & casing).
If, after this is passed, you are caught with non-numbered rounds - each one is a felony.

That, to me, sounds absolutely ridiculous.

Has anybody else heard anything like this?
If not, what is the latest you have heard about our new President's firearm policy/rules/regs?

I think I have personally been in denial about this whole thing - I have two boxes of 9MM rounds left.
Every single store within a 100mi radius as well as any online store I've seen is sold out of the rounds I use.

If that keeps up, I honestly don't know what to do...

Anybody else hear any other rumors about a new plan?

Once again, this is NOT a political discussion and if it turns that direction I'll close it down.
I merely want to see if anybody had heard any rumors about any regulations being passed down - and if so what they were.
As well as your opinion on whether Barack will actually do anything as drastic as a nationwide ban on certain firearms/ammo.

Keep it clean folks,

Fink

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a4runnerfreak · 02-19-2009, 10:59 PM

I have a few friends in the armed services that have said the same thing. Sometime in 2010 or 2011 it's suppose to start

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a4runnerfreak

I have a few friends in the armed services that have said the same thing. Sometime in 2010 or 2011 it's suppose to start

You mean serial numbered ammo?

Fink

aaron26889 · 02-19-2009, 11:10 PM

that is just plan stupid... i dont know how many bullets are produced everyday but it has to be a pretty big number and lableing all of them that is just plain dumb. the ammp companies will take a blow i will bet that...

sutsch13 · 02-19-2009, 11:15 PM

What i have herd isn't a serial # for each one but a certain stamp of some sort for ammo. And if it don't have it you could get in trouble. This is what iv herd so dont quote me. I think its to stop people from reloading. I also herd that they are gunna start background checks for handgun ammo.

spanish-road · 02-19-2009, 11:18 PM

Well it was shot down before and since most of the ammo inc have spoken on this topic and stated that it would be impossible to engrave a id number on the bullet and case. This would be impossible to do. Yeah I want to know more but i just for one don't trust the nra and their views two i want to see it in print with the header of .gov

I would like to know more to so lets make it informative on what we know. This is our government and we are the voice and lets not sound stupid but be informative so we don't get our tails crossed.

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sutsch13

What i have herd isn't a serial # for each one but a certain stamp of some sort for ammo. And if it don't have it you could get in trouble. This is what iv herd so dont quote me. I think its to stop people from reloading. I also herd that they are gunna start background checks for handgun ammo.

Thanks for replying, sounds like its not completely false then.
They can do all the background checks they want, honestly, I think they should do more of that.

Hopefully those of us with permits can just go up, grab the ammo, scan it and go - maybe do what they do with certain OTC drugs and scan our DL's.

I agree with a tracking method and background checks, but hopefully they won't completely take our guns away.

Fink

Windsor · 02-19-2009, 11:20 PM

AFAIK, serial-numbered ammo has come up in California a few times over the past few years. Historically, it has been shot down due to unrealistic expectations and overnight conversion of law-abiding citizens (who happen to have an old box of ammo on the closet shelf) into "hard criminals".

Perhaps that's the source of the paper, or at least the material for the paper if Obama's name was stuck on some fiction to stir the pot.

I don't think there has been any real traction of this type of legislature in WDC (yet), and this isn't something the President can just formulate with an executive decree.

aaron26889 · 02-19-2009, 11:21 PM

i think that it will depend on what state you live in and stuff like that...

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor

AFAIK, serial-numbered ammo has come up in California a few times over the past few years. Historically, it has been shot down due to unrealistic expectations and overnight conversion law-abiding citizens (who happen to have an old box of ammo on the closet shelf) into "hard criminals".

Perhaps that's the source of the paper, or at least the material for the paper if Obama's name was stuck on it.

I don't think there has been any real traction of this type of legislature in WDC (yet), and this isn't something the President can just formulate with an executive decree.

Very well said and informative post, Windsor.
You seem to be failry well versed in this matter.

With that being said, I know there will be some changes made, but how drastic to you personally think they will be?
For example, the sale of semi-automatic rifles (i.e., AR-15, AR-10) - do you think these will suffer at all other than a price increase?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron26889

i think that it will depend on what state you live in and stuff like that...

I agree but if something as far as a stamp for ammo goes through, that would have to nationwide due to the spread of manufacturers throughout the U.S.
As far as the punishments for owning non-stamped ammo, I could see that being varied among states.

Fink

spanish-road · 02-19-2009, 11:24 PM

sorry for Arizona tho.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....ls/hb2833p.htm

well washington state dropped it and shot it down fast.

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanish-road

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....ls/hb2833p.htm

Good find.

So according to that, they are already coding them?
How can that be given that would require assumingly lengthy additions to the ammo manufacturers assembly lines?
As well as certain sort patterns for where the ammo is sent, sold and distributed?

Fink

Windsor · 02-19-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4Fink

With that being said, I know there will be some changes made, but how drastic to you personally think they will be?
For example, the sale of semi-automatic rifles (i.e., AR-15, AR-10) - do you think these will suffer at all other than a price increase?

I'm not sure exactly how anti-gun they're gonna be the next two years.

They don't have a congress full of "hardened anti-gun" Democrats as they expected. I think there will be some resistance against something like the annoying-but-pointless AWB ("Brady Bill") we had under Clinton. Something more draconian like ban-any-rifle-with-detachable-magazine will probably not fly at all.

Also, with CHL/CCW being enacted in most states in the last 12yrs, you'd think that some congresscritters would actually Get The Point.

but I've been wrong before.

spanish-road · 02-19-2009, 11:42 PM

thats true in Alaska they voted against it and stated that the citizens are the... something about article 2. Montana stated the same thing, along with Washington.

I did a search on it and so far i haven't found anything on the national database. I think they are going to leave it up to the states.

sutsch13 · 02-19-2009, 11:43 PM

I know here in Cali that semi auto hand guns are gettin harder and harder to come by and in the next yr or so gun stores here wont be able to sell them. This is what my dad picked up while lookin for a new .45 semi auto

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sutsch13

I know here in Cali that semi auto hand guns are gettin harder and harder to come by and in the next yr or so gun stores here wont be able to sell them. This is what my dad picked up while lookin for a new .45 semi auto

Thankfully I've already got a good semi-auto pistol (Sig 229).
I just need to get an AR (hopefully) and a tactical shotgun.

We'll see how easy that becomes over the next few months...

Fink

sutsch13 · 02-19-2009, 11:49 PM

Ya my dad just wanted to get one last one before they are gone. From what he understood here in cali they were mostly after the semi auto handguns for some reason the shotguns not so much.

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sutsch13

Ya my dad just wanted to get one last one before they are gone. From what he understood here in cali they were mostly after the semi auto handguns for some reason the shotguns not so much.

Yeah, I don't see them doing much with shotguns.
Even semi-autos - at the most they may become more strict on the barrel lengths.

I want a pump anyway so I should be okay.

Fink

spanish-road · 02-19-2009, 11:54 PM

Im going to pick up a handgun here for work; i like the glock and sig but haven't decided yet. Im going to my parents place to fire off a few of the law enforcement models along with a full auto rifle.

cross your fingers and hope for the best or could write.

**4x4Fink** · 02-19-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanish-road

Im going to pick up a handgun here for work i like the glock and sig, Im going to my parents place to fire off a few of the law enforcement models along with a full auto rifle.

cross your fingers and hope for the best or could write.

We use Sig's at the Department I work for.
I'm not an officer yet but I bought my own Sig, traded in two older guns and got it for about $350 brand new.

Looking for a light and a hi-cap mag now.
My Sgt has a couple fully auto rifles that are just plain awesome.

One thing I didn't think about - if I make officer before too long, I'll be able to get a rifle through the PD with no questions asked.
That might be the answer to my dilemma - we'll see.

Fink

spanish-road · 02-20-2009, 12:04 AM

yeah this summer im thinking of doing the police training for remote villages here in alaska, good pay and discounts. They use glock since it doesn't freeze up from the coldness.

Oh i just found this:

Quote:

...Such a proposal is being pushed by a company that holds a patent on bullet-coding technology. But none of the 31 bills introduced last year ever made it out of committee...

**4x4Fink** · 02-20-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanish-road

yeah this summer im thinking of doing the police training for remote villages here in alaska, good pay and discounts. They use glock since it doesn't freeze up from the coldness.

Glock's are great guns but I prefer the all metal weight and feel of the Sig.
Also, I've had my Sig out in below-zero weather and never had a problem with it freezing.

I would just get whichever one you feel the most comfortable shooting.

Anyway, back on-topic.

Sounds like the ammo regulations are going to vary a lot state-to-state.

Fink

spanish-road · 02-20-2009, 12:16 AM

it appears so, from my point of view someone is getting under the desk favors for pushing it. since this is one company that is pushing it and since they have the technology, it makes since to me.

Fond the link to the company that is pushing it.http://www.ammocoding.com/index.php

Quote:

Ammunition Coding System - A Revolutionary Way to Identify Bullets

Ammunition Coding System Almost every day you can open your local newspaper and read a story about a shooting where no evidence is left, except the victim and a bullet. According to the Untied States Department of Justice, there is at least a 37% chance of never finding a killer in a crime involving a firearm. By making the bullet itself a more useable piece of evidence (without having to also find the gun) we can greatly increase the chance that law enforcement will solve more crimes.

Ravensforge has developed a patent pending technology: the Ammunition Coding System ("ACS"). ACS will assign a unique code to every bullet sold. By maintaining a record of purchases of ammunition, law enforcement personnel will be able to easily trace the ownership of any ammunition involved in a crime.

The ballistic fingerprinting system which is currently under consideration is an alternative plan to ACS. However, ballistic fingerprinting has many weaknesses. Most importantly, it won't deal with the millions of guns currently owned. It is estimated that at any given point in time there is only a four to five year supply of ammunition in the marketplace. Because of these ongoing sales, ACS will provide current and updated information on all ammunition users. This information won't be available if gun ownership is used as the primary source of identification.

In 1992, approximately 5.4 billion bullets were sold in the US alone. It is safe to assume that this number is trending upward. We estimate that 8-10 billion bullets were sold in the US in 2002. ACS has the capacity to accommodate this rate of sales for decades to come without duplicating the codes.

The design of our engraving system will allow law enforcement personnel to identify the code on a bullet, if even as little as 20% of the base remains intact. Since bullets are designed for the base to remain solid and in its original shape, the probability of our codes being legible after use is very high. Tests have shown a 99% success rate in determining the code after firing the coded ammunition.

We are soliciting ideas on how to implement ACS, as well as recommendations for improvements to its use or design. We will be happy to meet with you to further discuss and explain this unique and potentially valuable system to aid law enforcement professionals.

Just Learning · 02-20-2009, 03:14 AM

THANK GOD I MOVED FROM AZ, i target shoot, even if the bullet is coded, a crook will just steal everything ammo, gun

jjrgr21 · 02-20-2009, 03:55 AM

i prefer glocks, but sigs are great guns, i've got a p230 .380, great little carry gun.

02-19-2009, 11:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
sutsch13 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: carlotta Ca Posts: 92	What i have herd isn't a serial # for each one but a certain stamp of some sort for ammo. And if it don't have it you could get in trouble. This is what iv herd so dont quote me. I think its to stop people from reloading. I also herd that they are gunna start background checks for handgun ammo. __________________ 95 toyota P/U DX, 2in bl 33x12.50 open country m/ts glasspack. Soon to come: high flow cat, bj spacers , shackles

02-19-2009, 11:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
spanish-road Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairbanks Ak Posts: 1,097	Well it was shot down before and since most of the ammo inc have spoken on this topic and stated that it would be impossible to engrave a id number on the bullet and case. This would be impossible to do. Yeah I want to know more but i just for one don't trust the nra and their views two i want to see it in print with the header of .gov I would like to know more to so lets make it informative on what we know. This is our government and we are the voice and lets not sound stupid but be informative so we don't get our tails crossed. __________________ What I don't get is why pay someone to work on your vehicle? 1991 toyota pickup extcab- 22re 31x10.5x15 bone stock except for the RV cam and tires.

02-19-2009, 11:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
Windsor Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: DFW, Texas! Posts: 794	AFAIK, serial-numbered ammo has come up in California a few times over the past few years. Historically, it has been shot down due to unrealistic expectations and overnight conversion of law-abiding citizens (who happen to have an old box of ammo on the closet shelf) into "hard criminals". Perhaps that's the source of the paper, or at least the material for the paper if Obama's name was stuck on some fiction to stir the pot. I don't think there has been any real traction of this type of legislature in WDC (yet), and this isn't something the President can just formulate with an executive decree. __________________ '87 T4R Deluxe, mall crawler every non-SR5 option installed (sans AT), as well as: * Cruise Control (dealer installed) * Michelin LTX A/T2 31s on 1st-gen alloy rims * SmittyBilt granny step bar * SR5 Instrument Cluster Last edited by Windsor; 02-19-2009 at 11:22 PM.

02-19-2009, 11:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
spanish-road Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairbanks Ak Posts: 1,097	sorry for Arizona tho. http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....ls/hb2833p.htm well washington state dropped it and shot it down fast. __________________ What I don't get is why pay someone to work on your vehicle? 1991 toyota pickup extcab- 22re 31x10.5x15 bone stock except for the RV cam and tires. Last edited by spanish-road; 02-19-2009 at 11:31 PM.

02-19-2009, 11:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
spanish-road Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairbanks Ak Posts: 1,097	thats true in Alaska they voted against it and stated that the citizens are the... something about article 2. Montana stated the same thing, along with Washington. I did a search on it and so far i haven't found anything on the national database. I think they are going to leave it up to the states. __________________ What I don't get is why pay someone to work on your vehicle? 1991 toyota pickup extcab- 22re 31x10.5x15 bone stock except for the RV cam and tires.

02-19-2009, 11:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
aaron26889 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: warren, pa Posts: 89	that is just plan stupid... i dont know how many bullets are produced everyday but it has to be a pretty big number and lableing all of them that is just plain dumb. the ammp companies will take a blow i will bet that...

02-19-2009, 11:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
aaron26889 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: warren, pa Posts: 89	i think that it will depend on what state you live in and stuff like that...

02-19-2009, 11:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
sutsch13 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: carlotta Ca Posts: 92	I know here in Cali that semi auto hand guns are gettin harder and harder to come by and in the next yr or so gun stores here wont be able to sell them. This is what my dad picked up while lookin for a new .45 semi auto __________________ 95 toyota P/U DX, 2in bl 33x12.50 open country m/ts glasspack. Soon to come: high flow cat, bj spacers , shackles

02-19-2009, 11:49 PM	#17 (permalink)
sutsch13 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: carlotta Ca Posts: 92	Ya my dad just wanted to get one last one before they are gone. From what he understood here in cali they were mostly after the semi auto handguns for some reason the shotguns not so much. __________________ 95 toyota P/U DX, 2in bl 33x12.50 open country m/ts glasspack. Soon to come: high flow cat, bj spacers , shackles

02-19-2009, 11:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
spanish-road Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairbanks Ak Posts: 1,097	Im going to pick up a handgun here for work; i like the glock and sig but haven't decided yet. Im going to my parents place to fire off a few of the law enforcement models along with a full auto rifle. cross your fingers and hope for the best or could write. __________________ What I don't get is why pay someone to work on your vehicle? 1991 toyota pickup extcab- 22re 31x10.5x15 bone stock except for the RV cam and tires.

02-20-2009, 03:14 AM	#24 (permalink)
Just Learning Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Evans Colorado Posts: 682	THANK GOD I MOVED FROM AZ, i target shoot, even if the bullet is coded, a crook will just steal everything ammo, gun

02-20-2009, 03:55 AM	#25 (permalink)
jjrgr21 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,520	i prefer glocks, but sigs are great guns, i've got a p230 .380, great little carry gun. __________________ 2003 4WD TRD Tacoma 1986 4Runner

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