Need Mountain Bike help

JSB · 02-13-2003, 12:25 PM

I went to a bike shop on lunch today. They carried Diomond Back, and Raliegh(sp). I looked at a M60 I liked, but what are the good brands, and the things to stay away from. I've never owned I MTB so I need some advise. I'm looking to keep it around or under $500.

Thanks,
Jeremy

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TDiddy · 02-13-2003, 12:32 PM

A few years ago I bought a Gary Fisher Aquila for $449 during an end of season sale.

Check out this link for good mountain bike reviews . Actually I find that site to be pretty informative for alot of things mountain-biking related.

I've found that as the bike gets lighter, the price gets bigger.

jacksonpt · 02-13-2003, 12:36 PM

Oh man... there are a ton of good bikes out there. How do you plan on using it, i.e. what kind of riding are you going to be doing?

Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, Jamis, and Gary Fisher all make good bikes. There are lots more good ones too, it just depends on what's available in your area. The thing to do is decide how you're going to use it, then buy the best frame you can afford. Skimp on parts now and replace them with better ones as you can/need. The frame is the heart and sole of the bike - if you get a cheap one and break it, you're going to be in an expensive position to replace it (generally). If you break a deraileur or such then you are only out $50.

Cannondale just filed Chapter 11, so there might be some pretty good deals on them - though I'm not sure if the waranty will still apply.

There are lots of bikers on the board, I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions.

Good luck.

jruz · 02-13-2003, 12:36 PM

I have always like GT (my all-time fav.).
Specialized was good (back when I was on the scene)...as was Canondale.
Diamond Back = Ok.
I think I would steer clear of Raleigh though...

My advice is to get a hard-tail, so you get decent quality for your $500...and you can get a good feel for it. When you get better and want to be more hardcore you can upgrade to full-suspension (just my 2-cents).

For components, don't settle for the low-end model (I have been out of the scene for a while...not too sure what it's called now). You probably want a Shimano Deore or better setup.

Let me know if you have more questions, I can try to pull more knowledge from the depths of my brain...

Jim

Cebby · 02-13-2003, 12:38 PM

Might want to think about used. I got my Klein for $600 (sold new 3 yrs prior for about $2K. There are MTB boards with tons of stuff for sale. The big thing with MTB is the lighter it is the more $$$. Here's my Klein (full suspension!!!).

Good names include Klein, Cannondale, Gary Fisher, to name a few - there are plenty more. Most bike brands have high end down to low end models (just like automakers). Lighter=better. Better components (deraileurs, shifters mainly) are usually worth the investment. Nothing more frustrating than having a bike that won't shift right or stay in gear under load.

I've assumed you are talking about crosscountry MTB's, not downhill bikes. I'll see if I can dig up a link to the MTB site I'm thinking of.

jruz · 02-13-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cebby
I've assumed you are talking about crosscountry MTB's, not downhill bikes.

Yeah, that is a good point...recommendations will probably vary depending on which kind.

In my day, I loved downhill.

Jim

jacksonpt · 02-13-2003, 12:48 PM

Cebby brings up a good point. If you don't mind buying used, and you exercise a little patience, there are lots of good deals floating around - you just gotta find them.

JSB · 02-13-2003, 12:48 PM

Well I've been told there are about 20 different trail systems in the D/FW, TX area. I live near a lake that has one but I'm not sure about the terrain. I'm assuming for now, I'll do the trail/cross counrty style riding. I've heard some of the full suspension bikes have a tendency to bounce while climbing up hill. Was the bike store sales guy just filling me with ? I've looked on EBAY a little, I wouldn't mined "quality used". What's with these JEEP bikes I've seen on EBAY? So Raliegh(sp) is something I should steer away from huh. The salesman was telling me it was a great bang for the buck bike, but then again that's one of the two brands he had. I think I'm going to stop by this shop on the way home, and see what they have. Keep the advise coming. I don't want to jump into this thinking a crap what did I buy?:cry:

Cebby · 02-13-2003, 01:00 PM

Don't go Ebay for bikes. You'll get everyone that knows nothing about bikes trying to hock their wares. The JEEP bikes are crap (read: heavy like a tank).

For full suspension, it depends on the design as far as pogoing. My Klein does not pogo, but I've been on other FS bikes that do. You can probably get a really tricked out hard tail for under $500 (used). Something fairly light with great components and a couple of years old. You might get lucky like me - I found a guy that was a road bike fanatic, bought a mountain bike cause he was going to get into it - and never really liked it. Let it go for a song...

jruz · 02-13-2003, 01:03 PM

Test drive dude...test drive.
That's the main reason I found that I like GTs. Just something about the frame geometry fit me just right.

Find a bigger shop near you, that carries more than just DB and Raleigh, and go through all the top brands.

Jim

Toddski · 02-14-2003, 05:51 AM

Hey there Jeremy.
I have a Diamonback X-Link that i got for christmas two years ago.

I too am new to the sport. My Diamondback works out great for me.
I think i paid $500 for mine. Being on the lower pay scale my bike is a little heavy but the componets work great.
I tried some of my friends bikes that cost three times as much and feel that i have the better deal. I keep up with them and i'm comfortable on my bike. It's just so hard to see someone spill on a bike that cost $2,000:eek:

I would stick with a full suspension. Its such a nice ride.
You can tune the rear shock if you get too much bounce.

Hope this helps a bit

JSB · 02-14-2003, 06:24 AM

Well on the way home I checked out this bike store. They don't carry used.

, but I looked at some nice bikes. They had Klein, Trek, Gary Fisher, Specialized, and a couple more high dollar bikes. Anyway, I looked at the Gary Fisher Tassajara $569, and the Marlin $429. The guy told me the Tassajara is a great bike for the money. I won't feel the need to upgrade components, like the Marlin. It breaks my under $500 budget, but I don't think I want to be upgrading in 6 months. I'm not buying until spring so I've got some time to think about it. THe guy was trying to sell me the fact that if I buy from them I get life time free servicing , I just have to buy parts. The servicing included a couple of tune ups that are pretty expensive if you had to pay for them. Do all bike shops offer that? The reason why I'm asking is because, I found out one of my friends works for a bike shop, but it's no where near me. I was going to see what kind of deal he can get me, but should I stay close to home when it comes to shops. I can fix most my stuff my self when it comes to cars, so how much different is a bike?

Thanks for all the advise so far guys, I appreciate it.

Jeremy

williemon · 02-14-2003, 06:35 AM

When I was buying my bikes (2 of them) I chose the Raleigh for the price and the shop I was using. there are 2 bike shops in my town, one had Diamond Back, but service was not so good, so I chose the other. This Guy sold Raleigh and Cannondale. The Cdale was much lighter and better frame, but the components in my price range were crappy. I got the next to the top of the line Shimano components on the Raleigh. I figured, these bikes would be kept for our lifetime and not used for any hardcore stuff. When I was in high school I would always ride a 10 speed or single speed banana seat style bike in the woods and on the street. Yea, I would bend stuff and stuff would fall off, but I never broke a frame. I ride the same way now but with less speed. I did not want to have to replace components or get into a situation where the shifter failed on me. On the trails Ive been on, all has worked well, but I have not jumped off cliffs with it or anything. Ive never had a spill with it yet. It depends on how hard core you go with the riding. I think I got the M50 back in 1998. Its like 4 wheeling. I have not had to do a SAW on my truck cause I dont go hard core enough for that. Other guys I know would have broke my truck in half with the stuff they do. So you have to decide how your gonna ride and go from there. I knew where I was at and where I was going with my riding, so It was not a bad choice for me. Another thing though, if cost was not an issue, if you buy the best, you will always be happy with it.

Just read your latest post, thought I would add some more here. My shop gave me a year free service. It is something you can do yourself if you have the instruction books but if you get free service, why do it yourself? besides, the shop I use is in this business cause he loves it, so the bike is cared for well when I take it to him. Also I got my bikes in april as a closeout. The manufacturer was bringing out the new models and there was still some last years stock, so I got a closeout model. Saved 100.00 bucks on the deal.

TDiddy · 02-14-2003, 07:40 AM

The Tassajara is a good bike. Since you're not buying for a while you have a chance for it to go on sale too, especially if its a 2002 model. You may also want to consider upgrading the saddle when you get the bike. Most saddles, at least in the low to mid range bikes, are pretty uncomfortable. If you upgrade with the bike, they should put it on for free and get it fitted for you as far as height goes.

I've also found that most shops do offer some sort of free or at least discounted service when you get a bike from them. But I'd guess that if you're good with cars, working on your own bike may not be a big deal for you. It also depends on how hard/often you'll ride. You may get by with one or two tune ups a year.

JSB · 02-14-2003, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by williemon
Also I got my bikes in april as a closeout. The manufacturer was bringing out the new models and there was still some last years stock, so I got a closeout model. Saved 100.00 bucks on the deal.

Is April the normal close out time of year, because I could wait till April. So not all shops give the life time servicing...Hmm that's something I should definitely consider then huh.

JSB · 02-14-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mertztr
The Tassajara is a good bike. Since you're not buying for a while you have a chance for it to go on sale too, especially if its a 2002 model. You may also want to consider upgrading the saddle when you get the bike. Most saddles, at least in the low to mid range bikes, are pretty uncomfortable. If you upgrade with the bike, they should put it on for free and get it fitted for you as far as height goes.

I've also found that most shops do offer some sort of free or at least discounted service when you get a bike from them. But I'd guess that if you're good with cars, working on your own bike may not be a big deal for you. It also depends on how hard/often you'll ride. You may get by with one or two tune ups a year.

That's funny you mention the saddle...he said if I didn't like the one the bike comes with he'd give me $10 off any seat they had, and would put it on for free. I definitely don't want a sore

JSB · 02-14-2003, 10:44 AM

Well I just got back from lunch and the mutual friend that works at a bike shop had FUJI, NIRVE, something else that started with an "M" cale. He had a 2002 Nirve that was normally $750. He said it's on sale for $599 but he'd give it to me for $499. The components were one scale down from Deor(sp) but it had disc brakes, sealed intergrated bearings. The back end of the bike was boxed. Looked pretty nice. What do you think of that one...plus I get life time servicing for free there too.

JSB · 02-14-2003, 10:57 AM

Well I just checked the Nirve website and the Nirve HTX-2 suggested retail IS $499. It's suppose to have the Deore shifters. Man, I'm disappointed. I think I might stick with the Gary Fisher

jruz · 02-14-2003, 11:01 AM

You should go whip that guys butt...

Gary Fisher get's high marks in my book. I would say that is a good option. I have never heard of this "Nirve" brand. GF has been around a long time...

Jim

jacksonpt · 02-14-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jruz
You should go whip that guys butt...

Gary Fisher get's high marks in my book. I would say that is a good option. I have never heard of this "Nirve" brand. GF has been around a long time...

Jim

Ditto! GF makes a nice bike.

JSB · 02-14-2003, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jacksonpt
Ditto! GF makes a nice bike.

Yep, I know, but he's a friend of a friend, so...I'll just forget about it. I think I like the Gary Fisher better anyway. Plus it's just 60 bucks more. Maybe I can talk him down to an even $500.

Robinhood150 · 02-14-2003, 03:12 PM

I thought all frames from big companies have a lifetime warranty.

Anyways, if I were you I'd start out with a hardtail so that you learn how to ride better technically. Shocks make the bike more forgiving so you won't learn to ride with finesse. I've got a 15 year old rigid mountain bike that weighs a little over 30lbs and I think I'm a better rider because of it.

Basically, you pay more for better components...the better the components, the lighter and smoother they are. On a hardtail, the components are what make the bike light, not the frame.

I'd say you're better off learning how to work on your bike for the same reason it's better to build up your truck yourself...so that when something breaks you can fix it on the trail. Just go out and buy a bike maintenance book and learn as you go. The hardest part is tuning the derauliers, it just takes a lot of practice.

Steve

Cebby · 02-14-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Robinhood150
The hardest part is tuning the derauliers, it just takes a lot of practice.

Don't forget truing wheels. The toughest part I've found is truing "hop", not wobble.

02-13-2003, 12:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
jacksonpt Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 2,753	Oh man... there are a ton of good bikes out there. How do you plan on using it, i.e. what kind of riding are you going to be doing? Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, Jamis, and Gary Fisher all make good bikes. There are lots more good ones too, it just depends on what's available in your area. The thing to do is decide how you're going to use it, then buy the best frame you can afford. Skimp on parts now and replace them with better ones as you can/need. The frame is the heart and sole of the bike - if you get a cheap one and break it, you're going to be in an expensive position to replace it (generally). If you break a deraileur or such then you are only out $50. Cannondale just filed Chapter 11, so there might be some pretty good deals on them - though I'm not sure if the waranty will still apply. There are lots of bikers on the board, I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions. Good luck. __________________ Jackson - My Site 96 SR5 4x4 - 33" MTs, open diffs, and 3.90s - LET'S ROCK! My runner has bee traded in sniff on an 06 SR5 long bed d-cab Tacoma. The tacoma is nice, but... sniff ... I'll update my site when I'm done grieving.

02-13-2003, 12:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
Cebby Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,246	Used? Might want to think about used. I got my Klein for $600 (sold new 3 yrs prior for about $2K. There are MTB boards with tons of stuff for sale. The big thing with MTB is the lighter it is the more $$$. Here's my Klein (full suspension!!!). Good names include Klein, Cannondale, Gary Fisher, to name a few - there are plenty more. Most bike brands have high end down to low end models (just like automakers). Lighter=better. Better components (deraileurs, shifters mainly) are usually worth the investment. Nothing more frustrating than having a bike that won't shift right or stay in gear under load. I've assumed you are talking about crosscountry MTB's, not downhill bikes. I'll see if I can dig up a link to the MTB site I'm thinking of. __________________ UZswap.com A site dedicated to sharing info for swapping the Toyota/ Lexus UZ (V8) engines into Toyota Trucks and 4Runners. My 4Runner 1993 4Runner, 1UZ (V8) auto dual ultimate crawler, double locked, 35's on beadlocked SR5 alloys, low lift, hacked fenders, tubbed firewall, custom armor TOOLandFAB.com A discussion forum dedicated to tools, fabrication & workshops. See my JD2 Bender Hydro Conversion BUY THIS 2008 CALENDAR

02-13-2003, 12:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
jacksonpt Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 2,753	Cebby brings up a good point. If you don't mind buying used, and you exercise a little patience, there are lots of good deals floating around - you just gotta find them. __________________ Jackson - My Site 96 SR5 4x4 - 33" MTs, open diffs, and 3.90s - LET'S ROCK! My runner has bee traded in sniff on an 06 SR5 long bed d-cab Tacoma. The tacoma is nice, but... sniff ... I'll update my site when I'm done grieving.

02-13-2003, 01:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cebby Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,246	Don't go Ebay for bikes. You'll get everyone that knows nothing about bikes trying to hock their wares. The JEEP bikes are crap (read: heavy like a tank). For full suspension, it depends on the design as far as pogoing. My Klein does not pogo, but I've been on other FS bikes that do. You can probably get a really tricked out hard tail for under $500 (used). Something fairly light with great components and a couple of years old. You might get lucky like me - I found a guy that was a road bike fanatic, bought a mountain bike cause he was going to get into it - and never really liked it. Let it go for a song... __________________ UZswap.com A site dedicated to sharing info for swapping the Toyota/ Lexus UZ (V8) engines into Toyota Trucks and 4Runners. My 4Runner 1993 4Runner, 1UZ (V8) auto dual ultimate crawler, double locked, 35's on beadlocked SR5 alloys, low lift, hacked fenders, tubbed firewall, custom armor TOOLandFAB.com A discussion forum dedicated to tools, fabrication & workshops. See my JD2 Bender Hydro Conversion BUY THIS 2008 CALENDAR

02-14-2003, 05:51 AM	#11 (permalink)
Toddski Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Graham, Wa. Posts: 923	Hey there Jeremy. I have a Diamonback X-Link that i got for christmas two years ago. I too am new to the sport. My Diamondback works out great for me. I think i paid $500 for mine. Being on the lower pay scale my bike is a little heavy but the componets work great. I tried some of my friends bikes that cost three times as much and feel that i have the better deal. I keep up with them and i'm comfortable on my bike. It's just so hard to see someone spill on a bike that cost $2,000:eek: I would stick with a full suspension. Its such a nice ride. You can tune the rear shock if you get too much bounce. Hope this helps a bit __________________ Todd '91 4runner SR5. OME 901 coils, Bilstein shocks, 31" Wildcountry TXR Tires. Lightforce Lance 140 offroad lights.

02-13-2003, 12:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
TDiddy Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Urbandale, IA Posts: 7,113	A few years ago I bought a Gary Fisher Aquila for $449 during an end of season sale. Check out this link for good mountain bike reviews . Actually I find that site to be pretty informative for alot of things mountain-biking related. I've found that as the bike gets lighter, the price gets bigger.

02-13-2003, 12:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
jruz Guest Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Bend, WA Posts: 1,093	I have always like GT (my all-time fav.). Specialized was good (back when I was on the scene)...as was Canondale. Diamond Back = Ok. I think I would steer clear of Raleigh though... My advice is to get a hard-tail, so you get decent quality for your $500...and you can get a good feel for it. When you get better and want to be more hardcore you can upgrade to full-suspension (just my 2-cents). For components, don't settle for the low-end model (I have been out of the scene for a while...not too sure what it's called now). You probably want a Shimano Deore or better setup. Let me know if you have more questions, I can try to pull more knowledge from the depths of my brain... Jim

02-13-2003, 12:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
JSB Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 900	Well I've been told there are about 20 different trail systems in the D/FW, TX area. I live near a lake that has one but I'm not sure about the terrain. I'm assuming for now, I'll do the trail/cross counrty style riding. I've heard some of the full suspension bikes have a tendency to bounce while climbing up hill. Was the bike store sales guy just filling me with ? I've looked on EBAY a little, I wouldn't mined "quality used". What's with these JEEP bikes I've seen on EBAY? So Raliegh(sp) is something I should steer away from huh. The salesman was telling me it was a great bang for the buck bike, but then again that's one of the two brands he had. I think I'm going to stop by this shop on the way home, and see what they have. Keep the advise coming. I don't want to jump into this thinking a crap what did I buy?:cry:

02-13-2003, 01:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
jruz Guest Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Bend, WA Posts: 1,093	Test drive dude...test drive. That's the main reason I found that I like GTs. Just something about the frame geometry fit me just right. Find a bigger shop near you, that carries more than just DB and Raleigh, and go through all the top brands. Jim

02-14-2003, 06:24 AM	#12 (permalink)
JSB Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 900	Well on the way home I checked out this bike store. They don't carry used. , but I looked at some nice bikes. They had Klein, Trek, Gary Fisher, Specialized, and a couple more high dollar bikes. Anyway, I looked at the Gary Fisher Tassajara $569, and the Marlin $429. The guy told me the Tassajara is a great bike for the money. I won't feel the need to upgrade components, like the Marlin. It breaks my under $500 budget, but I don't think I want to be upgrading in 6 months. I'm not buying until spring so I've got some time to think about it. THe guy was trying to sell me the fact that if I buy from them I get life time free servicing , I just have to buy parts. The servicing included a couple of tune ups that are pretty expensive if you had to pay for them. Do all bike shops offer that? The reason why I'm asking is because, I found out one of my friends works for a bike shop, but it's no where near me. I was going to see what kind of deal he can get me, but should I stay close to home when it comes to shops. I can fix most my stuff my self when it comes to cars, so how much different is a bike? Thanks for all the advise so far guys, I appreciate it. Jeremy

02-14-2003, 06:35 AM	#13 (permalink)
williemon Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 811	When I was buying my bikes (2 of them) I chose the Raleigh for the price and the shop I was using. there are 2 bike shops in my town, one had Diamond Back, but service was not so good, so I chose the other. This Guy sold Raleigh and Cannondale. The Cdale was much lighter and better frame, but the components in my price range were crappy. I got the next to the top of the line Shimano components on the Raleigh. I figured, these bikes would be kept for our lifetime and not used for any hardcore stuff. When I was in high school I would always ride a 10 speed or single speed banana seat style bike in the woods and on the street. Yea, I would bend stuff and stuff would fall off, but I never broke a frame. I ride the same way now but with less speed. I did not want to have to replace components or get into a situation where the shifter failed on me. On the trails Ive been on, all has worked well, but I have not jumped off cliffs with it or anything. Ive never had a spill with it yet. It depends on how hard core you go with the riding. I think I got the M50 back in 1998. Its like 4 wheeling. I have not had to do a SAW on my truck cause I dont go hard core enough for that. Other guys I know would have broke my truck in half with the stuff they do. So you have to decide how your gonna ride and go from there. I knew where I was at and where I was going with my riding, so It was not a bad choice for me. Another thing though, if cost was not an issue, if you buy the best, you will always be happy with it. Just read your latest post, thought I would add some more here. My shop gave me a year free service. It is something you can do yourself if you have the instruction books but if you get free service, why do it yourself? besides, the shop I use is in this business cause he loves it, so the bike is cared for well when I take it to him. Also I got my bikes in april as a closeout. The manufacturer was bringing out the new models and there was still some last years stock, so I got a closeout model. Saved 100.00 bucks on the deal. __________________ 90 4 Runner 4x4 V6 Auto, Westin step bars, Eagle rims, DOA head port and camshaft. 94 Toy truck 4x4 22RE 5sp, 31x12.5 BFG muds, eagle rims, Rancho RS9000s, nerfs, ext. shackles. SOLD http://community.webshots.com/user/williemon Last edited by williemon; 02-14-2003 at 06:42 AM.

02-14-2003, 07:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
TDiddy Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Urbandale, IA Posts: 7,113	The Tassajara is a good bike. Since you're not buying for a while you have a chance for it to go on sale too, especially if its a 2002 model. You may also want to consider upgrading the saddle when you get the bike. Most saddles, at least in the low to mid range bikes, are pretty uncomfortable. If you upgrade with the bike, they should put it on for free and get it fitted for you as far as height goes. I've also found that most shops do offer some sort of free or at least discounted service when you get a bike from them. But I'd guess that if you're good with cars, working on your own bike may not be a big deal for you. It also depends on how hard/often you'll ride. You may get by with one or two tune ups a year.

02-14-2003, 10:44 AM	#17 (permalink)
JSB Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 900	Well I just got back from lunch and the mutual friend that works at a bike shop had FUJI, NIRVE, something else that started with an "M" cale. He had a 2002 Nirve that was normally $750. He said it's on sale for $599 but he'd give it to me for $499. The components were one scale down from Deor(sp) but it had disc brakes, sealed intergrated bearings. The back end of the bike was boxed. Looked pretty nice. What do you think of that one...plus I get life time servicing for free there too. Last edited by JSB; 02-14-2003 at 10:47 AM.

02-14-2003, 10:57 AM	#18 (permalink)
JSB Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 900	Well I just checked the Nirve website and the Nirve HTX-2 suggested retail IS $499. It's suppose to have the Deore shifters. Man, I'm disappointed. I think I might stick with the Gary Fisher

02-14-2003, 11:01 AM	#19 (permalink)
jruz Guest Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Bend, WA Posts: 1,093	You should go whip that guys butt... Gary Fisher get's high marks in my book. I would say that is a good option. I have never heard of this "Nirve" brand. GF has been around a long time... Jim

02-14-2003, 03:12 PM	#22 (permalink)
Robinhood150 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wandering around Phoenix Posts: 6,043	I thought all frames from big companies have a lifetime warranty. Anyways, if I were you I'd start out with a hardtail so that you learn how to ride better technically. Shocks make the bike more forgiving so you won't learn to ride with finesse. I've got a 15 year old rigid mountain bike that weighs a little over 30lbs and I think I'm a better rider because of it. Basically, you pay more for better components...the better the components, the lighter and smoother they are. On a hardtail, the components are what make the bike light, not the frame. I'd say you're better off learning how to work on your bike for the same reason it's better to build up your truck yourself...so that when something breaks you can fix it on the trail. Just go out and buy a bike maintenance book and learn as you go. The hardest part is tuning the derauliers, it just takes a lot of practice. Steve __________________ Steve. '93 4Runner V6 Auto 4x4 Robinhood's Lair. \|\| Gettin' Off 4wd Club member Lots for sale:5.29 ARB IFS third member... Click Sierra Club policy: [A reason to close trails] ...Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat... Lesson...Stay on the TRAIL!

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