Paul H.

here is the linkhttp://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8E158080.html The way I see it is that it is the companies own fault. They relied too heavily on their big SUV's and trucks and basically let their cars slide. When they realized what was going on in the market, they gave their cars new names but they were still bland and crappy. Ford did the same thing and they plan on doing a similiar move in January. Good job GM and Ford. This is why Toyota will become the world leader by 2010 if not before.

This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on Yotatech!

__________________
92 4Runner SR5 V6 4X4
Skyjacker Nitro shocks, Pro-Comp steering stabilizer, clear bumper lenses, lund windjammer, OME standard coils, ISR mod, inlet pipe removed, Bushwaker Fender Flares.

2002 Tacoma Prerunner V6 Xtracab. Lund Intercepter bug guard, rear glass sunshield, Bilstein shocks on rear.

2004 Honda CRV EX stock belongs to wife.

shazaam

gov't will bail them out ...

__________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, and the lesson afterwards.

<-- the artist formerly known as sdastg1

Yota4runner

Its the cars they are producing,they are crap. A friend of my dads bought a NEW Blazer, brand spanking new. When he traded it in for a 00 Dodge Intrepid straight up, it had 13,000K on it. The dealership put 6000 of that on it. Trying to figure out why it shuddered like a wet dog at speeds in excess of 60km/h.

Never did figure it out.

__________________
[-Chris-]

1988 X-Tra Cab 4x4. V6. Stripped to the frame.

1998 Chevy Chyenne Extended Cab, pretty much stock, except for a few cosmetics.

fiveofeen

blazer, its easy ball joints were shot idler pitman arm, probably oil cooler lines, trans cooler lines, and I'm sure a few other suprises. Those trucks were the bread and butter of the shop i worked at.

__________________
Tim - www.TGTINT.com

1994 4Runner SR5 - 3.0 5spd - Eibach springs, CB, Hella 500's, M/T's, and a very nice tint job..

turboale

Nothing like a little gas crisis to make people realize how much gas they were consuming...

__________________
--Austin
RHaus NYC
06 M45 Sport - Beauty
96 4Runner - The Beast

paddlenbike

GM = "built-in obsolescence"

__________________
2000 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD | 5-speed | E-locker | Tundra/OME lift | Stubbs Sliders | Deckplate/TrueFlow | Yakima rack | Click here for specs & pics

calrockx

This was the front page story of the LA times today.

The article right next to it? How Toyota is now in the "driver's seat".

__________________
[2002 4Runner 4WD]

Bennito

This was hit upon a few weeks ago by the Mad Money guy who yells and screams about stocks. His take was:

GM - horrible
Ford - bad (they lose money making cars; make it by selling credit for those cars)
Chrysler - neutral. (he wouldn't own it, but of the americans its best - probably because its owned by the Germans)
Honda - Good, but he'd rather have:
Toyota - Best. They make money. Enjoy something like 50% less workers to make a car. Absolutely the best car company in the world.

Makes sense why here at work we're focused on the Toyota Production System and other lean methods.

(no real point here except more anecdotal evidence that we, as taxpayers, will be bailing out GM)

__________________
Ben - 97 sr5 - full of win.

Paul H.

Read today that GM is closing the plants that make the min ivans and midsize SUV's. They are keeping open the plants that make their full size trucks and SUV's because they believe that people will start buying them again as soon as gas prices go down.
I guess that is the true reason why GM is in so much trouble.

__________________
92 4Runner SR5 V6 4X4
Skyjacker Nitro shocks, Pro-Comp steering stabilizer, clear bumper lenses, lund windjammer, OME standard coils, ISR mod, inlet pipe removed, Bushwaker Fender Flares.

2002 Tacoma Prerunner V6 Xtracab. Lund Intercepter bug guard, rear glass sunshield, Bilstein shocks on rear.

2004 Honda CRV EX stock belongs to wife.

fustercluck

evolution through natural selection

__________________
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

Bob_98SR5

so true. the worst part of all of this? i will bet you that the dolts in top mgt who've made years and years of crappy decisions and the idiots who actually design their crappy vehicles are least affected while the guys who build these rolling pieces of turd bear the brunt of the layoffs

glad i have a toyota

bob

fustercluck

Once again, natural selection. The individuals with the power are the last to fall. I believe the signs of this adjustment have been manifest for decades. They having been working within their limitations. I could not have been so productive with the same limitations were I in their place.

This period is the refiner's fire incognito. We will see several metamorphic events within the company in several facets; two of the most obvious being personnel and their benefits as well as product evolution.

GM will not go away this fast. It takes more than a thousand cuts to kill a brontosaurus

__________________
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

ecchamberlin

One of the bigger plants that is closing is the Lansing assembly plant. Closing because Lansing City will no longer cut them deals on property taxes so they are finishing a brand new state of the art plant only 18 miles away outside of the Lansing city limits. The new plant is so big that it has it's own power plant and sewage treatment facility. THe new plant is also just 8 miles away from my parents home and the new plant has nearly doubled the value of their farm and land. Dad always did have a lucky streak!

As for the company. I would never own any GM product period.

__________________
Eric

2001 4Runner with stuff:
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.ph...6&topic=1098.0

fustercluck

Never is a very long time. I assume you own a Toyota. Ever see the antecedents of our fine vehicles?

__________________
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

fustercluck

Parenthetically, I used to say I'd never own a dodge/chrysler. I still don't, but I would own a few of their offerings.

__________________
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

amusement

I have owned two Chevrolets and 4 Toyotas.

'47 C3500 flat-bed 235ci straight-six, with 4 speed
'67 C10 long bed 250ci straight-six three speed (column shift)

Toyota modified the Chevrolet 250 straight-six and put it in the ol' Landcruiser.

What I am trying to say is ... Toyota adapted the best technology (at the time) and made it better. Something that GMC doesn't do without kicking and scream'in.

I can invision GMC Senior Management saying "it's an intelligent design (regarding their decisions)". The rest of the planet knows it's not intelligent but, de-evolution.

I don't see the Feds helping GMC, Ford or Dodge out of this crisis.

ecchamberlin

True. Never is a long time and an absolute. In 1985 my fater was a engineer for GM research and Development and worked on the Aurora project in Lansing. The layoffs were coming down the line and he went to his upper management and asked if it would be effecting engineering. THey said absolutely not it would only effect the line workers. So we completed escrow on our cottage on a lake and bought a new Chevy car that was needed because my sister was born and we needed a bigger car. 2 months later they layed my dad off and said it would be at least 2 years. So, he went back to school to get a High school industrial arts teaching degree and my mothers paycheck wasw the only money coming in for 3 years supporting 3 children, 1 home, 2 cars, 1 cottage and college tuition for my dad. Needless to say we were strapped for money. OUr family was not the only family that this happened to. GM has a pattern of following market trends without reguard to its employee's welfar. Huge hirings and huge layoffs.

In addition to the ethics the product is designed to be more consumable than other auto makers. Have I ever seen a Toyota break down? Yes. Would I even attempt to do the things I have done in a nearly stock Runner with a Chevy S10 Blazer? No way. I guess you have to ask the retoricle question why would an auto maker only back it's product for 36,000 miles when many (not all) back theirs for 60,000? I find it self evident. By the way good word!

__________________
Eric

2001 4Runner with stuff:
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.ph...6&topic=1098.0

lee

beyond that, i b et those in top management dont drive their own crappy cars!

stevrock

I once had a chat with a man that worked in a GM plant over in Ontario. He said, never in his life will he ever, ever, ever but one. I' pretty sure he was serious, after the ways he seen them put together. People fueding because they want to put the part on with 4 bolts instead of 6, that type of arguing.
People coming in hung over, not being sent away because of the union.
He drives a mazda, and another import, this was months ago, I don't remember the other car.

I owned a Chevy before. An 88 Z24, never drove it, never even ran. It was the "cool" thing to have (go figure). I ended up selling it for $300 because I didn't really care for the work involved.

Now, I own:
83, and an 82 Celica-Supra
Along with an 87 Cressida.
And today (I'll find out in a couple hours), I may be adding an 88 4Runner to the mix. Oh the excitment.

__________________
-Steve H.

88 4Runner: 22RE, 5 speed, soft top, 3" body lift

bryanr

I've owned a few Chevy S-10 Blazers in the past (an 88 and 93). Talk about junk. Something was broken every other week from just daily driver duty.

I can say with great certainty, the only GM I would ever own again would be a Corvette, preferably a Z06.

__________________
1989 Toyota Extended Cab 4x4, SR5, V6 3.0 Auto, 33x12.50x15 WideTrack MTs, American Racing 15x10s, Rancho Steering Stablizer, 4" SuperLift Suspension, Yukon 5.29s, Detroit Truetrac LSD, ARB Bull Bar, PowerStop drilled rotors, ProComp stainless steel brake lines, Lund BugShield, Aisin Hubs, Bushwacker Flares, Pioneer HU.

My 89 Toyota 4x4

celica

GMC = Garbage made corporate

__________________
Matt

2003 4-Runner Limited - Couldn't stay away from the runner
2003 Sequoia Limited
1989 Supra Turbo

1992 4r, 5spd V6 Sold

MTL_4runner

I wouldn't be surprised if GM management actually forced the corporation into bankruptcy so they could shed all the legacy baggage (pensions, health, other benefits) before they tried to remold the company. GM just had little to no chance in a global marketplace and carrying so much financial dead weight.

__________________
- Jamie

1996 4Runner SR5 4X4 Auto

Deckplate Mod, Hayden Tranny Cooler, Amsoil Air Filter, OME 881/906 N86C/N91SC Lift

Best OBD II scan tool I have used!.

.....and I am AMERICAN!

Paul H.

Heard on the news that GM is expected to sell 9 million vehicles this year, Toyota 8.1 million. Toyota is expected to surpass GM in global sales within 2 years!

__________________
92 4Runner SR5 V6 4X4
Skyjacker Nitro shocks, Pro-Comp steering stabilizer, clear bumper lenses, lund windjammer, OME standard coils, ISR mod, inlet pipe removed, Bushwaker Fender Flares.

2002 Tacoma Prerunner V6 Xtracab. Lund Intercepter bug guard, rear glass sunshield, Bilstein shocks on rear.

2004 Honda CRV EX stock belongs to wife.

fustercluck

word.

__________________
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

Scofco

It didn't take quite that many when I did it.
That bastard didn't want to die easy though, I'll tell you that much.

__________________