Confederate flag - Page 3

predator_machine · 11-01-2009, 05:45 PM

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muddpigg · 11-01-2009, 05:47 PM

That's all you brother.

**aviator** · 11-01-2009, 06:16 PM

steady predator ... image may be lifted from tv show but is pushing the envelope of our "work/kid safe" rule... I get your point though and agree with mudd... that's all you bro...

predator_machine · 11-01-2009, 07:57 PM

I just love the concept of blood guilt. I once had a friend who was concieved through an act of violence. Should I go beat him down for being the son of a rapist. Should the south be shamed for partaking in this evil, you might as well take down your stars and stripes too, cause slavery was an american concept, inherited from the british empire. Every state or what would eventually become a state at one time allowed slavery. The emancapation proclamation did not end slavery in america, only in the states that had succeeded from the union, once under federal control. It did not abolish slavery, that is what the 13th amendment has done, and it was not ratified until december of 1865, long after lee's surrender at appotamatox.
Slavery was in fact practiced after the war, in states such as Kentucky (never succeeded from the union, although much of it was under rebel control during the war), and also in NJ, of course they had long since banned any new slaves, but existing slaves were essentially slaves for life unless freed.
If "There is no way to repay what our country has done" then our country must fall. And that is the direction this country has been heading for quite some time.
I do not blame the black people for this.
This entire "black" culture of crime, drugs, racism, exposed underwear, gangsta, thug, exploitation of your own and greed.....This entire bull was made up, cultivated, signed and marketed by rich evil white man.
Who owns the record labels that put out garbage that glorifies selling your own people into bondage, ie slavery to crack cocaine, that degrades women, even advocates rape.
Who owns the media that gives the likes of jessie jackson airtime, that makes heros out of cold blooded killers, that screams at the top of its lungs evey time a crime is comited by a white person against a black person, but is silent when a crime is comitted against a white person.
Who owns hollywood and puts out movies constantly depitcting the white man as the villian, that rewrite history and that are designed to encourage hatered against the white man.
And of the ursurper in the oval office, our first "black president", his black KENYAN daddy ran off, and he was raised by well, radical islam and of course his WHITE liberal bitch of a mama and her folks. He gives a damn for the black man about as much as the KKK.
And Obama, along with all the rich white oligarchy that own the media, own hollywood, own the record labels (and therfore culture), and now run this country, have one goal and that is the fall of america, at least as we once knew it. I see how black people were 50 years ago, they made good music, went to church, had pride and made their communities a place to live and worked hard to seek the american dream. Now I see the today, not only blacks but every other race in america trying to emulate this culture of bull. The black man, and I do hate to make a collective generalization, but it is the majority therof (and not as large a majority as you may think), are nothing more than a tool for a evil socialist white person to wreck this nation.
But who is going to stand up in opposition, nobody everyone is too afraid of being accused of what is now the ultimate sin, being considered a racist. White man won't stand up for whats right and the country he built on the principals of of secured liberty and inalienable rights endowed by our creator, and has gone to .
And no, I dont consider myself a racist. The truth is all I speak and an end is all I seek. I just want to live my life, raise my children(without state intervention), life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Dont want to be a part of no new religion, no political dream.
America was founded on a set of ideals, to be an american means to believe in these ideals. I accept anyone as a friend who holds this to be true. But what does it mean today, now seems America is just a place you live, like an apartment complex or golf course community.
What does the future have for us (all). Guess the burden of slavery will not matter when we are all slaves of the socialist machine.

predator_machine · 11-01-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddpigg

Your probably right Aviator: I may have jumped to conclusions. Have seen it before just assumed it was the case here. Frequently laugh about the internet bully types, just don't get it.

Slavery is alive and well in the world today, sad to say. Back when my sister was a teen, my dad had a friend who's daughter's "boyfriend." Would target, date, get them addicted, then smuggle then out of country into slavery abroad. He was caught and arrested with the guys daughter heading to California, that's were his portal for getting the girls out of country.

And no, this was not directed at you.

predator_machine · 11-01-2009, 08:06 PM

took the apology pic down, I do not let my children watch that show as they not understand the parodies of this sick world it makes, and see only mindless depravity. Should not have posted it, sorry

muddpigg · 11-01-2009, 08:36 PM

I get what your saying and do believe some of what your saying and not other parts. Get frustrated to the point of anger too. Unfortunately for the first time ever culture is decided by people that drive the market. As far as popularity is teenagers that have a larger disposible income than us older but not old croud. And its not just music or thug/goth/grunge style either. We no longer have cable TV cause of the things I didn't want my kids to see. Saturday morning cartoons that every female character had extra shot mini shirts and holter top up past the base of their drawn boobs. Not to mention that the advertizers spend mega bucks and hire psychologist to help them market their wares to my kids. So we still watch TV show we just get them on DVD. That was my rebelion against the establishment. Never imposed my views or tried to change it, after all free speech. This brings me to the point I'm trying to make.

Yes, I know that racism is alive and well in the South, North, West, and East. I've been around people that I've had to tell to shutup and never speak to me again about such things. Both against other races and females. For some reason there is a major stereotype that all white southern males are that why, I know and you no this is not the case as well as many people who have read this post. All I'm saying is why play into their stereotypes. As the Confederate flag is a symbol heavily associated with racism. As popular culture only see what the movies portray, no the Civil war was about states rights not slavery. There is stories that A Lincoln would have allowed the institution of slavery to remain to keep the Republic together, for that was more important than anything to him. That J Davis refused the offer.

I to want what you want. To raise my kids, to do my job (yes, I enjoy being a soldier), persue happiness, and my family to live in safety. As the economy is strained and times are hard. This makes the divide between our countries different ethnic gruops vulnerable to subversion and sabatage. An example would be the nazi rise and seige of power in '20-30's Germany.

A simple act of good will can have significant impact, that can be conventally measured. I don't not carry blood guilt but I can except that slavery/ segregation/ and unequality. Do I owe something to other races, no. But I can acknowedge the effect. No this does not make curtain behaviors or crimes ok, it does excuse the behavior but this problem is larger than a single person or ethnical group.

rhill · 11-01-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviator

Well rhill I might argue that there is success and then there is success. The banking execs gained their "success" by making unsound decisions and taking foolish risks [yes there were political policies in place that promoted this and yes they were started by the dems and then expanded by the gop but still]. In the case of the banks they are/were running on taxpayer money it stands to reason that you would cap their salaries otherwise all the money that is supposed to be helping the banks to help the average citizen/corporation get back on their feet would be squandered on "bonuses". (Why you would give someone a "bonus" for bringing in toxic business I don't know).
Perhaps these caps will help bring in a sense of normalcy to these outrageous salaries being paid to these execs... I don't care who you are nobody is worth the kind of money these twits were paying themselves.

As for the gov't taking care of themselves and their cronies first that's why you have elections every 4/5 yrs. If you don't like someone vote them out, or run yourself...
Something else to think about the majority [in Can. or the US] generally don't bother to vote, if you don't vote you kind of get what you (did'nt) ask for. If you don't demand the best you get what shows up.

I enjoy your point of view. Sometimes I feel like mine is warped because of where I live and how I was raised, but it's still my opinion none the less. I'd love to move to canada for a year or two and see how things work up there. In any case, I have to respond at least one more time :-) There is no such thing as too successful, as long as you're doing your own work and earning honest money. If you aren't earning honest money the law and the free market have a way of catching up to you. People often use Enron and Bernie Madoff as examples of market failure, but I thinks it's just the opposite. Where are the Enron execs and Madoff? In jail! They got away with it for a while, but the law eventually did it's job and now they're paying the price. As far as the AIG execs, they would have gotten what they deserved...bankruptcy and lost jobs. We can also lump in all the people at WAMU, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac etc who gave bad loans to unqualified people. Had the market been allowed to work, they would all be out of a job. The economy would have taken a hit...but we took a hit anyways! Instead, the government did what they do best...took care of their own. Now AIG is more profitable that ever and controlled by the government. As far as outrageous salaries...are we going to cap the money Obama makes off his books and speaking engagements? The amount of money Bradd Pitt makes for his movies? Or the amount of money we pay Mike Vick to sit on the bench? I doubt it. But evil bankers who have worked hard to educate themselves and navigate our mess of a financial system...they shouldn't be allowed to reap the fruits of their labor! The hypocrisy of our leaders...we want everyone to be successful, but not too successful, and only in professions we approve of, or we'll take it all away.

In a nutshell, all I'm saying is we're in dangerous territory when the fed is deciding who earns what. I'm think i'm done with this thread...it was fun.

Mstrkage · 11-01-2009, 11:09 PM

I was born and raised in Indianapolis but my family is very southern. Here is my piece;
The flag most people fly was a battle flag, not that of the actual confederacy. I find this funny because instead of showing pride in a conquered nation as some might say, it seems to me it shows pride in being defeated in war.
I don't think it represents racism, how can it, it flew over the marching armies, not over plantations and slave ships.
Pride in your heritage should not be limited if you move outside of your birthplace. Point - for those of you who say your upset for seeing in the PNW or in states like Michigan did you know, a small town about 20 miles east of Indianapolis, IN seceeded during the Civil War? I believe they have just as much right flying the flag even though they are from the North. Even more so because in Indianapolis is a large memorial facing south to welcome home the returing Union soldiers.
In conclusion, I only get upset when someone uses the flag, or any symbol, in an ignorant fashion.

GA22RE · 11-01-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by predator_machine

The battle flag/naval jack of the confederacy, often mistakenly called the stars and bars,

Just glad to see someone caught that the Confederate Battle Flag as carried by the Army of Northern Virginia and the Stars and Bars are indeed two different entities.

GA22RE · 11-01-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mstrkage

The flag most people fly was a battle flag, not that of the actual confederacy.

Again, good catch.

GA22RE · 11-02-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mstrkage

In conclusion, I only get upset when someone uses the flag, or any symbol, in an ignorant fashion.

Whole-heartedly agree. Did anyone catch that show on the History Channel where during the 30's pro-Nazi American's were using George Washington as symbol for absolute leadership. Here's one thing I think we can all agree on: There's nothing worse than a symbol that means so much to some being used as a malicious instrument by few. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing the Nazi flag being flown alongside the Confederate Battle Flag.
One thing that astonishes me a lot as a Georgian is the controversy and historical misinterpretation surrounding our states' flag. In the 50's a Flag with the state seal and Confederate battle flag was adopted. In the 90's a stream of grew. Remember when someone or political group in office (not sure if it was the Governor's office, State Senate, or what?) of the state of New York refused to fly the GA flag alongside the other 49 flags? That caused some heated debate. If I recall correctly the Governor of South Carolina phoned NY and told the party responsible to also remove SC's state flag. Ouch. Next we had this jackass Governor decide to change the GA State flag overnight without a public vote. The result was an ugly looking, pitiful excuse for a state flag that quickly was replaced within a year. Here's the kicker the flag that no one liked was replaced by one that almost duplicates the Confederate States "Stars and Bars". And because so many have grown accustomed to the Battle Flag being the sole symbol of the CSA no one seems to notice what is flying now. Let me rephrase that. No one that opposes the references to the "Old South" seems educated enough to have picked up on this. IMO it's kind of a win for Southern Sympathizers as we seem to have won this battle with Historical Fact (though admittedly, it's still not as prideful as the Battle Flag).
Honestly though guys even though we are a "nation apart" it's amazing just how much we have in common. I'm sure some members here have been to seminars or training sessions where different participants come from across the country and perhaps even from Canada. It's always astonished me how good of a time I can have with people from all parts of the country. It's interesting how we human's actually have our pre-cognitions to how a person's going to act or function just from what we've heard or seen on TV. Ex: At the last training seminar I went to in Portland I had my share of perceptions. I thought the guy from Philly was going to be some sort of brawler, the guy from Chicago was going to be a big talker and at first I thought most of the Oregonians I encountered were very "Granola": Almost ideals of new-age hippies. I was right with my perception of Canadians as they are some of the nicest people I've ever met. Even though we as American's can seem a breed apart that's what makes the experience so fun. I had a blast. Can't remember where I heard it but love this statement: Our differences are what makes us who we are as individuals but what we have in common makes us who we are as a nation.

muddpigg · 11-02-2009, 11:06 AM

I somehow managed to delete the post I was working on. Will have to come back later.

**aviator** · 11-02-2009, 12:08 PM

Interesting points you raise on certain elements of "urban" culture predator... indeed several prominent entertainers have spoken out against the negative stereo typing...
I remember early rap/hip hop was just as edgy (for the time) without all the overt negative references... but we digress... I would also remind you that political commentary is not allowed here... [historical discussions ie Lincoln/Davis adn the like are OK since they are historical]...

Personally I hate the way history always seems to be sanitized these days... the way negative events are either ignored or glossed over... For example it seems like every sept. lately some group wants schools to stop using "To Kill A Mockingbird" in English class because of it's negative racial content. Personally I think that kind of thinking is backward... not only is it a good story it illustrates the change in (most) people's attitudes and shines a light on a difficult period... one could argue that it also brings attention to current judicial inequalities [provided the teacher has the whit to use it that way]. but I digress again lol...

crawlerjunkie · 11-02-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fustercluck

You see the confederate flag because of this...

...same reason this can be seen flying.

holy crap i just crapped and threw up at the same time.

stormin94 · 11-02-2009, 08:05 PM

Being a born and raised Californian, the Confederate flag used around here is more a symbol of being a rebel, rather than the civil war. I understand there are a few people who have family history that dates back to the civil war era. There are also people who burn the American flag, right here in the USA...... and oddly enough, many of them claim that the Confederate Flag is unconstitutional, and interferes with their civil rights. I don't understand why this is so. Too many people who preach about civil rights(even though the issues they claim to be representing don't affect them directly) single out groups of people who disagree with their views, and (ironically) seek to eliminate their rights to free speech. In my opinion, there is absolutely no room for people who try to protect someone's civil rights by denying others their rights. It seems people will do anything to appease a guily conscience.

Newbie_93 · 11-02-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormin94

There are also people who burn the American flag, right here in the USA...

they should all be burned at the stake

muddpigg · 11-02-2009, 09:29 PM

I don't think anyone should be forced to stop flying flags or protesting of whatever. As that is our constitutional right. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do. With any freedom there does come a point that it infringes on others.

I'll give an example. I stopped in Idaho on the way across country from NC to Wa. I love the mountains and couldn't pass the chance to scramble (run) up a peak in The Rockies, they are breath taking. Great time but I won't get sidetracked. So afterwards, I'm sweaty, well its summer so like I had several times coming across I'd find a stream. On the way down into the valley, I pass some horseback riders, continue down another 200m turn onto another FS road. Here's a bunch of good ol' boy getting the guns out, while others are firing up the same general direction as the horseback riders I'd just past, all the while chugging beer. So yes little old me by my lonesomes stops to infringe upon these guys right to bear arms. I explained the potential danger that I had observed and they agreed. Moved down into a ravine and I saw no more of them and did find a nice secluded stream stop to bath.

So my whole point is that its is possible to be understanding of others rights and modifying our actions so that no ones is being infringed apon. This is the concept of common decency. Which was a very large part of my heritage.

I don't think that law can create common decency, it was a founding principle of our nation. Though many times through history it has been forgotten or ignored. Some either don't know it or don't care. Perhaps if those horseback riders I passed had flipped me the bird instead of tipping their hat, perhaps I wouldn't have done what I did.

I know I'm long winded.

**aviator** · 11-03-2009, 03:29 PM

Just remember folks before you go getting up in their grill that group burning the flag may just be trying to follow proper protocol and not protesting anything at all.
Just sayin'

GA22RE · 11-03-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviator

Just remember folks before you go getting up in their grill that group burning the flag may just be trying to follow proper protocol and not protesting anything at all.
Just sayin'

Hunh? Did I miss something?

theAuthority · 11-03-2009, 03:49 PM

Here is another extended conversation about the Stars and Bars

http://nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44994

11-01-2009, 05:47 PM	#52 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	That's all you brother. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784

11-01-2009, 06:16 PM	#53 (permalink)
aviator Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: COTKU,Ontario,Canada Posts: 7,473	steady predator ... image may be lifted from tv show but is pushing the envelope of our "work/kid safe" rule... I get your point though and agree with mudd... that's all you bro... __________________ Silver 1994 Hilux Xtra cab 4x4 3.0 K&N cone filter, ported MAF, advanced timing, oversize exhaust, free flow cat, "rumble" muffler custom covered SR5 seats, map lights, factory AC tv4184 style black interior conversion started mods to come... header, custom centre console, stereo upgrade tinted windows Founding member 1972TLC fan club - Get well soon Mary Toyota Hilux... Get in or Get out of the way.

11-01-2009, 08:36 PM	#57 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	I get what your saying and do believe some of what your saying and not other parts. Get frustrated to the point of anger too. Unfortunately for the first time ever culture is decided by people that drive the market. As far as popularity is teenagers that have a larger disposible income than us older but not old croud. And its not just music or thug/goth/grunge style either. We no longer have cable TV cause of the things I didn't want my kids to see. Saturday morning cartoons that every female character had extra shot mini shirts and holter top up past the base of their drawn boobs. Not to mention that the advertizers spend mega bucks and hire psychologist to help them market their wares to my kids. So we still watch TV show we just get them on DVD. That was my rebelion against the establishment. Never imposed my views or tried to change it, after all free speech. This brings me to the point I'm trying to make. Yes, I know that racism is alive and well in the South, North, West, and East. I've been around people that I've had to tell to shutup and never speak to me again about such things. Both against other races and females. For some reason there is a major stereotype that all white southern males are that why, I know and you no this is not the case as well as many people who have read this post. All I'm saying is why play into their stereotypes. As the Confederate flag is a symbol heavily associated with racism. As popular culture only see what the movies portray, no the Civil war was about states rights not slavery. There is stories that A Lincoln would have allowed the institution of slavery to remain to keep the Republic together, for that was more important than anything to him. That J Davis refused the offer. I to want what you want. To raise my kids, to do my job (yes, I enjoy being a soldier), persue happiness, and my family to live in safety. As the economy is strained and times are hard. This makes the divide between our countries different ethnic gruops vulnerable to subversion and sabatage. An example would be the nazi rise and seige of power in '20-30's Germany. A simple act of good will can have significant impact, that can be conventally measured. I don't not carry blood guilt but I can except that slavery/ segregation/ and unequality. Do I owe something to other races, no. But I can acknowedge the effect. No this does not make curtain behaviors or crimes ok, it does excuse the behavior but this problem is larger than a single person or ethnical group. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784

11-02-2009, 11:06 AM	#63 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	I somehow managed to delete the post I was working on. Will have to come back later. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784

11-02-2009, 12:08 PM	#64 (permalink)
aviator Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: COTKU,Ontario,Canada Posts: 7,473	Interesting points you raise on certain elements of "urban" culture predator... indeed several prominent entertainers have spoken out against the negative stereo typing... I remember early rap/hip hop was just as edgy (for the time) without all the overt negative references... but we digress... I would also remind you that political commentary is not allowed here... [historical discussions ie Lincoln/Davis adn the like are OK since they are historical]... Personally I hate the way history always seems to be sanitized these days... the way negative events are either ignored or glossed over... For example it seems like every sept. lately some group wants schools to stop using "To Kill A Mockingbird" in English class because of it's negative racial content. Personally I think that kind of thinking is backward... not only is it a good story it illustrates the change in (most) people's attitudes and shines a light on a difficult period... one could argue that it also brings attention to current judicial inequalities [provided the teacher has the whit to use it that way]. but I digress again lol... __________________ Silver 1994 Hilux Xtra cab 4x4 3.0 K&N cone filter, ported MAF, advanced timing, oversize exhaust, free flow cat, "rumble" muffler custom covered SR5 seats, map lights, factory AC tv4184 style black interior conversion started mods to come... header, custom centre console, stereo upgrade tinted windows Founding member 1972TLC fan club - Get well soon Mary Toyota Hilux... Get in or Get out of the way.

11-01-2009, 07:57 PM	#54 (permalink)
predator_machine Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 41	I just love the concept of blood guilt. I once had a friend who was concieved through an act of violence. Should I go beat him down for being the son of a rapist. Should the south be shamed for partaking in this evil, you might as well take down your stars and stripes too, cause slavery was an american concept, inherited from the british empire. Every state or what would eventually become a state at one time allowed slavery. The emancapation proclamation did not end slavery in america, only in the states that had succeeded from the union, once under federal control. It did not abolish slavery, that is what the 13th amendment has done, and it was not ratified until december of 1865, long after lee's surrender at appotamatox. Slavery was in fact practiced after the war, in states such as Kentucky (never succeeded from the union, although much of it was under rebel control during the war), and also in NJ, of course they had long since banned any new slaves, but existing slaves were essentially slaves for life unless freed. If "There is no way to repay what our country has done" then our country must fall. And that is the direction this country has been heading for quite some time. I do not blame the black people for this. This entire "black" culture of crime, drugs, racism, exposed underwear, gangsta, thug, exploitation of your own and greed.....This entire bull was made up, cultivated, signed and marketed by rich evil white man. Who owns the record labels that put out garbage that glorifies selling your own people into bondage, ie slavery to crack cocaine, that degrades women, even advocates rape. Who owns the media that gives the likes of jessie jackson airtime, that makes heros out of cold blooded killers, that screams at the top of its lungs evey time a crime is comited by a white person against a black person, but is silent when a crime is comitted against a white person. Who owns hollywood and puts out movies constantly depitcting the white man as the villian, that rewrite history and that are designed to encourage hatered against the white man. And of the ursurper in the oval office, our first "black president", his black KENYAN daddy ran off, and he was raised by well, radical islam and of course his WHITE liberal bitch of a mama and her folks. He gives a damn for the black man about as much as the KKK. And Obama, along with all the rich white oligarchy that own the media, own hollywood, own the record labels (and therfore culture), and now run this country, have one goal and that is the fall of america, at least as we once knew it. I see how black people were 50 years ago, they made good music, went to church, had pride and made their communities a place to live and worked hard to seek the american dream. Now I see the today, not only blacks but every other race in america trying to emulate this culture of bull. The black man, and I do hate to make a collective generalization, but it is the majority therof (and not as large a majority as you may think), are nothing more than a tool for a evil socialist white person to wreck this nation. But who is going to stand up in opposition, nobody everyone is too afraid of being accused of what is now the ultimate sin, being considered a racist. White man won't stand up for whats right and the country he built on the principals of of secured liberty and inalienable rights endowed by our creator, and has gone to . And no, I dont consider myself a racist. The truth is all I speak and an end is all I seek. I just want to live my life, raise my children(without state intervention), life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Dont want to be a part of no new religion, no political dream. America was founded on a set of ideals, to be an american means to believe in these ideals. I accept anyone as a friend who holds this to be true. But what does it mean today, now seems America is just a place you live, like an apartment complex or golf course community. What does the future have for us (all). Guess the burden of slavery will not matter when we are all slaves of the socialist machine.

11-01-2009, 08:06 PM	#56 (permalink)
predator_machine Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 41	took the apology pic down, I do not let my children watch that show as they not understand the parodies of this sick world it makes, and see only mindless depravity. Should not have posted it, sorry

11-01-2009, 11:09 PM	#59 (permalink)
Mstrkage Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Warrensburg, MO Posts: 35	I was born and raised in Indianapolis but my family is very southern. Here is my piece; The flag most people fly was a battle flag, not that of the actual confederacy. I find this funny because instead of showing pride in a conquered nation as some might say, it seems to me it shows pride in being defeated in war. I don't think it represents racism, how can it, it flew over the marching armies, not over plantations and slave ships. Pride in your heritage should not be limited if you move outside of your birthplace. Point - for those of you who say your upset for seeing in the PNW or in states like Michigan did you know, a small town about 20 miles east of Indianapolis, IN seceeded during the Civil War? I believe they have just as much right flying the flag even though they are from the North. Even more so because in Indianapolis is a large memorial facing south to welcome home the returing Union soldiers. In conclusion, I only get upset when someone uses the flag, or any symbol, in an ignorant fashion.

11-02-2009, 08:05 PM	#66 (permalink)
stormin94 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lake County, CA/Sacramento Posts: 3,549	Being a born and raised Californian, the Confederate flag used around here is more a symbol of being a rebel, rather than the civil war. I understand there are a few people who have family history that dates back to the civil war era. There are also people who burn the American flag, right here in the USA...... and oddly enough, many of them claim that the Confederate Flag is unconstitutional, and interferes with their civil rights. I don't understand why this is so. Too many people who preach about civil rights(even though the issues they claim to be representing don't affect them directly) single out groups of people who disagree with their views, and (ironically) seek to eliminate their rights to free speech. In my opinion, there is absolutely no room for people who try to protect someone's civil rights by denying others their rights. It seems people will do anything to appease a guily conscience. __________________ 1994 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4X4 213,000 miles and counting 3.0 V6, 5 speed 10/15 MPG city/hwy(with 33's) Current Mods Headers, 2.5" Flowmaster custom exhaust, K&N FIPK KC Daylighter 100 Watt lights Ranchos x4, 2" Lift Downey coils 33-12.50 M/T's, 1" t-bar lift, 1" body lift Tow pkg w/ lighthookups Silverstar Headlights, Pioneer Deck w/XM Brushguard 250Watt JLAudio 8" W3 Sub Future Mods 12V Aux outlet-400/800peak inverter roof basket/lights Air locker 4.88 gears H.O. Alternator

11-02-2009, 09:29 PM	#68 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	I don't think anyone should be forced to stop flying flags or protesting of whatever. As that is our constitutional right. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do. With any freedom there does come a point that it infringes on others. I'll give an example. I stopped in Idaho on the way across country from NC to Wa. I love the mountains and couldn't pass the chance to scramble (run) up a peak in The Rockies, they are breath taking. Great time but I won't get sidetracked. So afterwards, I'm sweaty, well its summer so like I had several times coming across I'd find a stream. On the way down into the valley, I pass some horseback riders, continue down another 200m turn onto another FS road. Here's a bunch of good ol' boy getting the guns out, while others are firing up the same general direction as the horseback riders I'd just past, all the while chugging beer. So yes little old me by my lonesomes stops to infringe upon these guys right to bear arms. I explained the potential danger that I had observed and they agreed. Moved down into a ravine and I saw no more of them and did find a nice secluded stream stop to bath. So my whole point is that its is possible to be understanding of others rights and modifying our actions so that no ones is being infringed apon. This is the concept of common decency. Which was a very large part of my heritage. I don't think that law can create common decency, it was a founding principle of our nation. Though many times through history it has been forgotten or ignored. Some either don't know it or don't care. Perhaps if those horseback riders I passed had flipped me the bird instead of tipping their hat, perhaps I wouldn't have done what I did. I know I'm long winded. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784

11-03-2009, 03:29 PM	#69 (permalink)
aviator Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: COTKU,Ontario,Canada Posts: 7,473	Just remember folks before you go getting up in their grill that group burning the flag may just be trying to follow proper protocol and not protesting anything at all. Just sayin' __________________ Silver 1994 Hilux Xtra cab 4x4 3.0 K&N cone filter, ported MAF, advanced timing, oversize exhaust, free flow cat, "rumble" muffler custom covered SR5 seats, map lights, factory AC tv4184 style black interior conversion started mods to come... header, custom centre console, stereo upgrade tinted windows Founding member 1972TLC fan club - Get well soon Mary Toyota Hilux... Get in or Get out of the way.

11-03-2009, 03:49 PM	#71 (permalink)
theAuthority Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lynnwood, WA Posts: 1,664	Here is another extended conversation about the Stars and Bars http://nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44994 __________________ Proud sponsor of the re-poster thread. Where there is Substance. http://www.yotatech.com/f5/you-re-poster-193103/

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