Confederate flag - Page 2

habanero · 10-31-2009, 06:48 PM

I thought you hated eggnog.....

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***fustercluck*** · 10-31-2009, 07:08 PM

If there's enough chocolate in it....

rhill · 10-31-2009, 07:27 PM

I would defend anyone's right to fly that flag, and I'd be pissed if anyone was forced to take it down...by the government at least. That being said, you might as well fly a swastika, because that's how you'll be viewed. The civil war was about more than slavery, sure. But as far as society in general is concerned, that's ALL it was about.

fastkevman · 10-31-2009, 07:39 PM

I'm not offended at all by the "Rebel" flag, as I grew up thinking that the Dukes of Hazzard were the coolest ever jumping the General Lee!

rowdy235 · 10-31-2009, 09:20 PM

I live in the Pacific Northwest and I fly the Confederate flag every day in my front yard. We (Me & The Family) come from the south, Heritage Not Hate

muddpigg · 10-31-2009, 09:43 PM

My last few post seemed to drift heavily. For that excuse me. I like the direction this post has gone. I do have heritage in the South. But I don't see the flag as representing it. There were many different Confederate flags but this is the one recognized. The fact is that the heritage and cultural significance of the flag are so over shadowed by the racial extreme groups that have adopted it as a symbol to rally behind. This is unfortunate to those who only look at the flag as heritage. But as mentioned earlier there are half to a full dozen different confederate flags. If you only see it as a heritage thing than why not adopt another one?

I do believe that the Confederate flag does have a place. In history books and museums. We are but one nation. And what our nation needs is to come together as opposed to continued division. Now more than ever. Thats the whole point I wanted to make.

predator_machine · 10-31-2009, 10:04 PM

I proudly fly the colors cause to me it represents my land, my culture and my heritage foremost. I fly it as a political statement, for the rights of states sovereignty over the federal government. I fly it to remind and give hope to my fellow countrymen that the southern way is not gone. I fly it in honor of those who fought to defend this land.
I also fly it in spite and to offend those likely to be offended. And I do not fly flags I am not willing to defend and I aint a'fraid to jump out my truck and kick some ass if need be.
I never signed a declaration of surrender btw.
The battle flag/naval jack of the confederacy, often mistakenly called the stars and bars, is flown by people in just about every country on earth. A symbol of both rebellion and rabble alike. Flown in defiance just as we do, inspired by the spirit of the peoples of the southern states of America. Very few fly the flag as a symbol of racial hate. Just google for pictures of the KKK-2 of the 1900s-1920s, is this the colors they fly? That in the rural south there is a culture of black people that like to hunt, fish, listen to country music and are essentially black rednecks. One of my fishing buddies years ago had a nice toyota hilux with a rebel flag on the front of it, dual CB antennas, tires and a lift. Guess what, he was black as coal. Blacks fought for the colors just as the cherokee and everyone else who lived here, just as free blacks owned slaves just as northerners owned slaves no different than the southern white man. I don't mean to sound apologetic, I have not a damn thing to apologize for, nor am I attempting to appease guilt. I lived with the 'guilt' of slavery my whole life, and the burden of that guilt has taken the form of higher taxes, getting stabbed, shot at, called hurtful names, the lives taken of friends and loved ones, and constantly having to fight and defend myself. Tis guilt paid in full far as i am concerned. I didnt get to grow up on the farm, great grandma's farm was something I dreamed about at night. I grew up in the big city and got the hell out when I turned 18.
BTW I got 3 flags on my 4runner, mess with any one of them and you have civil war 2 on your hands.
So have fun beating up of them rockabilly kids in japan or holland for being a "poseur" and flying the flag. You will have quite a job putting the flag in the history books.
unreconstructed.

predator_machine · 10-31-2009, 10:17 PM

I also have a "betsy ross", and a 50 star banner. Those I fly because of my heritage, as my ancestors fought at Cowpens, Kings Mtn, Mexico, Panama and the Phillipines Insurrection, Korea and Vietnam to name a few. Men of the southland contributed greatly to this nation's founding. But there is one underlying issue that's too often ignored.
As ol' Jeff Davis once said "I love the Union and the Constitution, but I would rather leave the Union with the Constitution than remain in the Union without it."
I know of several die hard southerners whom also take offense to seeing kids in places like rural Ohio and Indiana fly confederate flags. But I say let rebels be rebels. The nation needs to come together as opposed to division.

muddpigg · 10-31-2009, 11:02 PM

Interesting, kinda distracted at the moment so will get back later.

modlite · 10-31-2009, 11:13 PM

Fly it all you want, free speech, if you're ever denied it start another civil war.
With the way our PC crowd is going these days it won't be long

predator_machine · 10-31-2009, 11:25 PM

kinda off topic, but it is nice to see that some states have passed resolutions asserting their sovereignty over the federal government, including several northern states like new hampshire.
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/...r-sovereignty/

muddpigg · 11-01-2009, 11:26 AM

Modlite: your right free speech never mention taking that away. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Predator: If you claim your sole right to do something is because you didn't ever surrender, thats retarded you weren't born. Kinda like the Palastinians saying the Islealis need to give them back land the lost in the forties and fifties. Then later in acts of war in the late '60's and 70's. So you honstly have no memory or tie to the conferdacy more the long dead family. The besides the Confederate States of America had a lifestan of a whooping 4yrs. Before that it was the US and after US as well. Yes the reconstruction years were difficult and driven by a military rule. But you weren't there either.

Please stowe the drama of I'll jump out and beat you up. Dude I'm across the counrty and never said anything about forcible removing anything from you. Its easy being a tough guy behind a computer. So do try to remain civilyou wouldn't intimidate me in person so words typed on a screen......

I do find it interesting to hear what you say and to try and see it from your point of view. Perhaps I would feel much different if I had not if I seen more of the world than one portion of our country. But yes there are many different groups that claim pride of heritage. I've also know "black rednecks and heavymetal rockers" too but by far they are few and far between really don't think it would amount to a hill of beans if it was an American flag on the back of anyones truck instead of a Confederate one.

Theres a mighty big world out there and if you do try, you can see it too. My concern is not the "the souths going to rise again" my concern is our country as a whole. In case you haven't noticed there is many maybe even most in the rest of the world who would like to see us, America fall. Some will even go to the deaths just to kill us.

Now lets look at another country say former Yugoslavia. It was a country made up of many different people, religions, ethnics,.... There was nothing to pull the people together to stand behind. Well like we once had in the '30's and 40's. So this whole country went to hell in a hand basket from the internal confict and decay.

So really my concerns are not for you as an individual but rather for the whole of our country. We seem to be loosing more as us younger generations seem to be more complacent and incapable of independant thought much less a national identity. Thats at the best of times but as I'm sure we've all noticed things are not the best of times.

Hell, yeah I'm an America!

**aviator** · 11-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbie_93

wait, i mite have been thinking of federation (if thats what a strong local gov. is)

or you may have just shot my argument down completly with that reply. in that case i apoligize for my statement

that's it a "federation" would/could be a group of local gov'ts or organizations working towards a common goal/for the good of all.

In theory it sounds good but I don't think we have evolved enough to make it work in practice. Over the long term one area would always do better than another [either because of economics or environmental advantage [better wx] and the disadvantaged region's citizens would get all bent out of shape about it lol...
The only way to have a chance at controlling this is with a strong central government working to ensure all regions have at least a similar chance at prosperity.

Newbie_93 · 11-01-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviator

that's it a "federation" would/could be a group of local gov'ts or organizations working towards a common goal/for the good of all.

In theory it sounds good but I don't think we have evolved enough to make it work in practice. Over the long term one area would always do better than another [either because of economics or environmental advantage [better wx] and the disadvantaged region's citizens would get all bent out of shape about it lol...
The only way to have a chance at controlling this is with a strong central government working to ensure all regions have at least a similar chance at prosperity.

well i agree it probably couldnt work in todays world. but about one region prospering more than another; i think it would be great if we had a central goverment that basically enforces laws and gives minimal assisatance to each region. then whichever region prospers more than another, they will most likley want to trade with another region who may not be as prosperouis but has items that region 1 wants. and so on and so on, so that trade begins to even out the wealth (one state would have more items, one state would have more money, and then they would keep trading so the balance stays even) and noone would get too upset about it...i know thats a bit confusing i havnt had much sleep haha.

leebee · 11-01-2009, 12:42 PM

should i even entertain uttering the 'c' word in response?

lee

**aviator** · 11-01-2009, 12:44 PM

Thank you for clarifying my position somewhat fuster.

muddsie... I don't think predator was directing his comments at anyone in particular just stating his position in response to another person's post who commented on people maybe being forced to remove a flag/symbol.

A little more history Britain was one of the first nations to outlaw slavery shortly after the {"War of Insurrection" british term} American Revolution. Indeed there was an open directive to the Royal Navy that made any ship suspected of slaving liable to boarding and seizure. Interestingly enough despite this law slavery continued openly in the colony of India until only recently and is even known to continue {illegally} today.

**aviator** · 11-01-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbie_93

well i agree it probably couldnt work in todays world. but about one region prospering more than another; i think it would be great if we had a central goverment that basically enforces laws and gives minimal assisatance to each region. then whichever region prospers more than another, they will most likley want to trade with another region who may not be as prosperouis but has items that region 1 wants. and so on and so on, so that trade begins to even out the wealth (one state would have more items, one state would have more money, and then they would keep trading so the balance stays even) and noone would get too upset about it...i know thats a bit confusing i havnt had much sleep haha.

good point newb except that the disadvantaged areas typically have very little that the others want and also lack the funds to pay the price the advantaged areas would charge for what they need...

muddpigg · 11-01-2009, 01:07 PM

Your probably right Aviator: I may have jumped to conclusions. Have seen it before just assumed it was the case here. Frequently laugh about the internet bully types, just don't get it.

Slavery is alive and well in the world today, sad to say. Back when my sister was a teen, my dad had a friend who's daughter's "boyfriend." Would target, date, get them addicted, then smuggle then out of country into slavery abroad. He was caught and arrested with the guys daughter heading to California, that's were his portal for getting the girls out of country.

Newbie_93 · 11-01-2009, 01:28 PM

ahh nice argument aviator...i am at a loss of comebacks for now

leebee · 11-01-2009, 01:42 PM

dont tell him that!

lee

rhill · 11-01-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by predator_machine

I proudly fly the colors cause to me it represents my land, my culture and my heritage foremost. I fly it as a political statement, for the rights of states sovereignty over the federal government. I fly it to remind and give hope to my fellow countrymen that the southern way is not gone. I fly it in honor of those who fought to defend this land.
I also fly it in spite and to offend those likely to be offended. And I do not fly flags I am not willing to defend and I aint a'fraid to jump out my truck and kick some ass if need be.
I never signed a declaration of surrender btw.
The battle flag/naval jack of the confederacy, often mistakenly called the stars and bars, is flown by people in just about every country on earth. A symbol of both rebellion and rabble alike. Flown in defiance just as we do, inspired by the spirit of the peoples of the southern states of America. Very few fly the flag as a symbol of racial hate. Just google for pictures of the KKK-2 of the 1900s-1920s, is this the colors they fly? That in the rural south there is a culture of black people that like to hunt, fish, listen to country music and are essentially black rednecks. One of my fishing buddies years ago had a nice toyota hilux with a rebel flag on the front of it, dual CB antennas, tires and a lift. Guess what, he was black as coal. Blacks fought for the colors just as the cherokee and everyone else who lived here, just as free blacks owned slaves just as northerners owned slaves no different than the southern white man. I don't mean to sound apologetic, I have not a damn thing to apologize for, nor am I attempting to appease guilt. I lived with the 'guilt' of slavery my whole life, and the burden of that guilt has taken the form of higher taxes, getting stabbed, shot at, called hurtful names, the lives taken of friends and loved ones, and constantly having to fight and defend myself. Tis guilt paid in full far as i am concerned. I didnt get to grow up on the farm, great grandma's farm was something I dreamed about at night. I grew up in the big city and got the hell out when I turned 18.
BTW I got 3 flags on my 4runner, mess with any one of them and you have civil war 2 on your hands.
So have fun beating up of them rockabilly kids in japan or holland for being a "poseur" and flying the flag. You will have quite a job putting the flag in the history books.
unreconstructed.

Sorry man, but...wow. Just wow. I'm white. I'm a conservative. Sometimes I wish I could move to Texas and we could secede from the union because I'm horrified at the direction our country has been going for a long time now. That being said...you think what you've been through has somehow accounted for hundreds of years of slavery and oppression? For being treated as an animal? For being denied basic human rights? That's like saying indian casinos make up for what we did to native americans. There is no way to repay what our country has done, though the government sure does try. I think the least YOU could do is not fly a flag that represents racism, no matter how much you guys wanna argue that it represents heritage.

rhill · 11-01-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviator

that's it a "federation" would/could be a group of local gov'ts or organizations working towards a common goal/for the good of all.

In theory it sounds good but I don't think we have evolved enough to make it work in practice. Over the long term one area would always do better than another [either because of economics or environmental advantage [better wx] and the disadvantaged region's citizens would get all bent out of shape about it lol...
The only way to have a chance at controlling this is with a strong central government working to ensure all regions have at least a similar chance at prosperity.

Umm...no. Let's think about this. What happens if you put a small group of people (in relation to the population), using money that isn't theirs, with almost all encompassing power, in charge of a country? They take care of themselves! Some areas/people will and should do better than other areas/people. Another problem with a strong central government is that they do not produce. All the money our government has is either taken from productive citizens or printed, both of which hurt productivity and prosperity. Also (and we're seeing this now in the US) what happens when the government decides you're too successful? That's right AIG execs...they cap your salary. Ultimately what you're advocating is for the government to determine how much we can earn. When that happens, they can control nearly every aspect of our lives.

Newbie_93 · 11-01-2009, 03:11 PM

^your post made it sound like both ideas dont work...so what is your point?

**aviator** · 11-01-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhill

Umm...no. Let's think about this. What happens if you put a small group of people (in relation to the population), using money that isn't theirs, with almost all encompassing power, in charge of a country? They take care of themselves! Some areas/people will and should do better than other areas/people. Another problem with a strong central government is that they do not produce. All the money our government has is either taken from productive citizens or printed, both of which hurt productivity and prosperity. Also (and we're seeing this now in the US) what happens when the government decides you're too successful? That's right AIG execs...they cap your salary. Ultimately what you're advocating is for the government to determine how much we can earn. When that happens, they can control nearly every aspect of our lives.

Well rhill I might argue that there is success and then there is success. The banking execs gained their "success" by making unsound decisions and taking foolish risks [yes there were political policies in place that promoted this and yes they were started by the dems and then expanded by the gop but still]. In the case of the banks they are/were running on taxpayer money it stands to reason that you would cap their salaries otherwise all the money that is supposed to be helping the banks to help the average citizen/corporation get back on their feet would be squandered on "bonuses". (Why you would give someone a "bonus" for bringing in toxic business I don't know).
Perhaps these caps will help bring in a sense of normalcy to these outrageous salaries being paid to these execs... I don't care who you are nobody is worth the kind of money these twits were paying themselves.

As for the gov't taking care of themselves and their cronies first that's why you have elections every 4/5 yrs. If you don't like someone vote them out, or run yourself...
Something else to think about the majority [in Can. or the US] generally don't bother to vote, if you don't vote you kind of get what you (did'nt) ask for. If you don't demand the best you get what shows up.

Newbie_93 · 11-01-2009, 05:34 PM

i wish i was old enuf to vote :/

10-31-2009, 07:08 PM	#27 (permalink)
*fustercluck* Sponsoring Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: right here. Posts: 7,061	If there's enough chocolate in it.... __________________ War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

10-31-2009, 07:27 PM	#28 (permalink)
rhill Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 57	I would defend anyone's right to fly that flag, and I'd be pissed if anyone was forced to take it down...by the government at least. That being said, you might as well fly a swastika, because that's how you'll be viewed. The civil war was about more than slavery, sure. But as far as society in general is concerned, that's ALL it was about. __________________ '93 pickup, 2wd, 5spd 3.0, 60,000 miles suspension: 3" lift spindles front, 3" helper coil rear

10-31-2009, 07:39 PM	#29 (permalink)
fastkevman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 708	I'm not offended at all by the "Rebel" flag, as I grew up thinking that the Dukes of Hazzard were the coolest ever jumping the General Lee! __________________ 1993 Pickup DLX extracab 4x4, V6, 5spd Warn front bumper w./ Hella 500's & shackles Custom rear bumper w./ 4" Hella's & shackles Custom grille Summit wheels 31" BFG A/T's Bilsteins 4Runner bucket seats & SR5 "stacker" console Pioneer/Polk/Kicker system 2.25" Flowmaster 1997 4Runner SR5 4x4, V6, Auto Pioneer/Polk/Kicker system '07 4Runner wheels

10-31-2009, 09:20 PM	#30 (permalink)
rowdy235 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sweet Home, OR Posts: 1,567	I live in the Pacific Northwest and I fly the Confederate flag every day in my front yard. We (Me & The Family) come from the south, Heritage Not Hate __________________ The Daily Driver: 1998 Tacoma \| Regular Cab \| 4WD \| 2.7L \| 5-Speed Stick \| Mostly Stock The People-Hauler 1988 Grand Wagoneer \| SUV \| 4WD \| AMC 360 \| 3-Speed Auto \| All Stock The Dump Runner 1982 Pickup \| Regular Cab \| 2WD \| 22R \| 5-Speed Stick \| Custom Exhaust FER SALE! http://www.yotatech.com/f108/1982-sh.../#post51229916

10-31-2009, 09:43 PM	#31 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	My last few post seemed to drift heavily. For that excuse me. I like the direction this post has gone. I do have heritage in the South. But I don't see the flag as representing it. There were many different Confederate flags but this is the one recognized. The fact is that the heritage and cultural significance of the flag are so over shadowed by the racial extreme groups that have adopted it as a symbol to rally behind. This is unfortunate to those who only look at the flag as heritage. But as mentioned earlier there are half to a full dozen different confederate flags. If you only see it as a heritage thing than why not adopt another one? I do believe that the Confederate flag does have a place. In history books and museums. We are but one nation. And what our nation needs is to come together as opposed to continued division. Now more than ever. Thats the whole point I wanted to make. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784

10-31-2009, 10:04 PM	#32 (permalink)
predator_machine Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 41	I proudly fly the colors cause to me it represents my land, my culture and my heritage foremost. I fly it as a political statement, for the rights of states sovereignty over the federal government. I fly it to remind and give hope to my fellow countrymen that the southern way is not gone. I fly it in honor of those who fought to defend this land. I also fly it in spite and to offend those likely to be offended. And I do not fly flags I am not willing to defend and I aint a'fraid to jump out my truck and kick some ass if need be. I never signed a declaration of surrender btw. The battle flag/naval jack of the confederacy, often mistakenly called the stars and bars, is flown by people in just about every country on earth. A symbol of both rebellion and rabble alike. Flown in defiance just as we do, inspired by the spirit of the peoples of the southern states of America. Very few fly the flag as a symbol of racial hate. Just google for pictures of the KKK-2 of the 1900s-1920s, is this the colors they fly? That in the rural south there is a culture of black people that like to hunt, fish, listen to country music and are essentially black rednecks. One of my fishing buddies years ago had a nice toyota hilux with a rebel flag on the front of it, dual CB antennas, tires and a lift. Guess what, he was black as coal. Blacks fought for the colors just as the cherokee and everyone else who lived here, just as free blacks owned slaves just as northerners owned slaves no different than the southern white man. I don't mean to sound apologetic, I have not a damn thing to apologize for, nor am I attempting to appease guilt. I lived with the 'guilt' of slavery my whole life, and the burden of that guilt has taken the form of higher taxes, getting stabbed, shot at, called hurtful names, the lives taken of friends and loved ones, and constantly having to fight and defend myself. Tis guilt paid in full far as i am concerned. I didnt get to grow up on the farm, great grandma's farm was something I dreamed about at night. I grew up in the big city and got the hell out when I turned 18. BTW I got 3 flags on my 4runner, mess with any one of them and you have civil war 2 on your hands. So have fun beating up of them rockabilly kids in japan or holland for being a "poseur" and flying the flag. You will have quite a job putting the flag in the history books. unreconstructed.

10-31-2009, 10:17 PM	#33 (permalink)
predator_machine Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 41	I also have a "betsy ross", and a 50 star banner. Those I fly because of my heritage, as my ancestors fought at Cowpens, Kings Mtn, Mexico, Panama and the Phillipines Insurrection, Korea and Vietnam to name a few. Men of the southland contributed greatly to this nation's founding. But there is one underlying issue that's too often ignored. As ol' Jeff Davis once said "I love the Union and the Constitution, but I would rather leave the Union with the Constitution than remain in the Union without it." I know of several die hard southerners whom also take offense to seeing kids in places like rural Ohio and Indiana fly confederate flags. But I say let rebels be rebels. The nation needs to come together as opposed to division.

10-31-2009, 11:02 PM	#34 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	Interesting, kinda distracted at the moment so will get back later. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784

10-31-2009, 11:13 PM	#35 (permalink)
modlite Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 86	Fly it all you want, free speech, if you're ever denied it start another civil war. With the way our PC crowd is going these days it won't be long __________________ 1991 Toyota 4Runner 22RE Yep I finally found it!

10-31-2009, 11:25 PM	#36 (permalink)
predator_machine Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 41	kinda off topic, but it is nice to see that some states have passed resolutions asserting their sovereignty over the federal government, including several northern states like new hampshire. http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/...r-sovereignty/

11-01-2009, 11:26 AM	#37 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	Modlite: your right free speech never mention taking that away. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Predator: If you claim your sole right to do something is because you didn't ever surrender, thats retarded you weren't born. Kinda like the Palastinians saying the Islealis need to give them back land the lost in the forties and fifties. Then later in acts of war in the late '60's and 70's. So you honstly have no memory or tie to the conferdacy more the long dead family. The besides the Confederate States of America had a lifestan of a whooping 4yrs. Before that it was the US and after US as well. Yes the reconstruction years were difficult and driven by a military rule. But you weren't there either. Please stowe the drama of I'll jump out and beat you up. Dude I'm across the counrty and never said anything about forcible removing anything from you. Its easy being a tough guy behind a computer. So do try to remain civilyou wouldn't intimidate me in person so words typed on a screen...... I do find it interesting to hear what you say and to try and see it from your point of view. Perhaps I would feel much different if I had not if I seen more of the world than one portion of our country. But yes there are many different groups that claim pride of heritage. I've also know "black rednecks and heavymetal rockers" too but by far they are few and far between really don't think it would amount to a hill of beans if it was an American flag on the back of anyones truck instead of a Confederate one. Theres a mighty big world out there and if you do try, you can see it too. My concern is not the "the souths going to rise again" my concern is our country as a whole. In case you haven't noticed there is many maybe even most in the rest of the world who would like to see us, America fall. Some will even go to the deaths just to kill us. Now lets look at another country say former Yugoslavia. It was a country made up of many different people, religions, ethnics,.... There was nothing to pull the people together to stand behind. Well like we once had in the '30's and 40's. So this whole country went to hell in a hand basket from the internal confict and decay. So really my concerns are not for you as an individual but rather for the whole of our country. We seem to be loosing more as us younger generations seem to be more complacent and incapable of independant thought much less a national identity. Thats at the best of times but as I'm sure we've all noticed things are not the best of times. Hell, yeah I'm an America! __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784 Last edited by muddpigg; 11-01-2009 at 11:30 AM.

11-01-2009, 12:42 PM	#40 (permalink)
leebee Contributing Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: marlbank, canada Posts: 2,450	should i even entertain uttering the 'c' word in response? lee __________________ 93 sr5 v6 auto, 4x4 Photos http://s866.photobucket.com/albums/a...albumview=grid there are quite some attractive ladies on here with Toys. (compliments of ironmike) ifsc 3(.0) http://tlca.org www.of4wd.com www.sontt.com

11-01-2009, 12:44 PM	#41 (permalink)
aviator Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: COTKU,Ontario,Canada Posts: 7,473	Thank you for clarifying my position somewhat fuster. muddsie... I don't think predator was directing his comments at anyone in particular just stating his position in response to another person's post who commented on people maybe being forced to remove a flag/symbol. A little more history Britain was one of the first nations to outlaw slavery shortly after the {"War of Insurrection" british term} American Revolution. Indeed there was an open directive to the Royal Navy that made any ship suspected of slaving liable to boarding and seizure. Interestingly enough despite this law slavery continued openly in the colony of India until only recently and is even known to continue {illegally} today. __________________ Silver 1994 Hilux Xtra cab 4x4 3.0 K&N cone filter, ported MAF, advanced timing, oversize exhaust, free flow cat, "rumble" muffler custom covered SR5 seats, map lights, factory AC tv4184 style black interior conversion started mods to come... header, custom centre console, stereo upgrade tinted windows Founding member 1972TLC fan club - Get well soon Mary Toyota Hilux... Get in or Get out of the way.

11-01-2009, 01:07 PM	#43 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: injured and stateside :( Posts: 1,395	Your probably right Aviator: I may have jumped to conclusions. Have seen it before just assumed it was the case here. Frequently laugh about the internet bully types, just don't get it. Slavery is alive and well in the world today, sad to say. Back when my sister was a teen, my dad had a friend who's daughter's "boyfriend." Would target, date, get them addicted, then smuggle then out of country into slavery abroad. He was caught and arrested with the guys daughter heading to California, that's were his portal for getting the girls out of country. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints for sale. Open to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51278784

11-01-2009, 01:28 PM	#44 (permalink)
Newbie_93 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 38	ahh nice argument aviator...i am at a loss of comebacks for now __________________ '93 4x4 Ext. Cab Pick-Up, 22r, 5spd., 293XXX, 33x12.50xR16, and some other stuff... Will trade for any bone-stock Toyota 1980-1994. Just lurking and soaking-up knowledge for now.

11-01-2009, 01:42 PM	#45 (permalink)
leebee Contributing Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: marlbank, canada Posts: 2,450	dont tell him that! lee __________________ 93 sr5 v6 auto, 4x4 Photos http://s866.photobucket.com/albums/a...albumview=grid there are quite some attractive ladies on here with Toys. (compliments of ironmike) ifsc 3(.0) http://tlca.org www.of4wd.com www.sontt.com

11-01-2009, 03:11 PM	#48 (permalink)
Newbie_93 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 38	^your post made it sound like both ideas dont work...so what is your point? __________________ '93 4x4 Ext. Cab Pick-Up, 22r, 5spd., 293XXX, 33x12.50xR16, and some other stuff... Will trade for any bone-stock Toyota 1980-1994. Just lurking and soaking-up knowledge for now.

11-01-2009, 05:34 PM	#50 (permalink)
Newbie_93 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 38	i wish i was old enuf to vote :/ __________________ '93 4x4 Ext. Cab Pick-Up, 22r, 5spd., 293XXX, 33x12.50xR16, and some other stuff... Will trade for any bone-stock Toyota 1980-1994. Just lurking and soaking-up knowledge for now.

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