Buyer Beware: www.LCEngineering.com

mnmontana · 11-26-2008, 01:38 PM

Kept seeing a bunch of posts from other guys on this forum and pirate4x4 talking about lcengineering.com. Figured I would try them out, $18.90 for 2 small metal plates (that could easily be shipped in standard mail inside an envelope with 60 cents in stamps).

I thought it was odd that they didn't post a shipping price, but did request credit card info to make a purchase. I normally wouldn't buy from a site like that, but after seeing them referenced so many times here, I decided to just go with it.

I imediatly saw 2 charges on my account, $18.00, and $18.90, I assumed the 18 dollar charge was in error, and that it could be cleared up with a quick phone call once the item arrived. My assumption was that they meant to charge 8 dollars for shipping and accidentally hit 18.... So I waited a few days untill my plates arrived. Sure enough, 18.90 for the parts, and 18 for the shipping and handling. UPS ground, took a week to get here. I figured 8 bucks for shipping on this was a rip off, 18... well, thats just rape.

So I recommend not ordering from these guys... and if you must... grab the KY and get ready for the 'shipping and handling' charges which wont be disclosed to you untill AFTER it has been shipped and there is no way to cancel the order, unless you return it and get hit with an 18 dollar return fee.

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mnmontana · 11-26-2008, 01:49 PM

Just checked UPS.com, to ship this package 2nd day air mail from them to me, would have been $16... They shipped it to me UPS ground, which should have been around $6.50.

DupermanDave · 11-26-2008, 01:58 PM

I have heard shoddy things about LC engineering. Firstly, them being overpriced with simple parts. Secondly, their customer service is a little lacking in quality. Thirdly, well....now this shipping incident.

bxlt · 11-26-2008, 02:28 PM

I work in the mail order/web order business at a university book store. We have a flat rate for S$H $8.95 and that is to ship out anything including textbooks. Prices are clearly marked and we have very few complaints about the charges even when some people will pay $8.95 for a $6 item, but to pay $18.00 to ground ship what sounds like something that was well under 10lbs something is a total rip off!

I never liked companies, or people on ebay, that use the S&H to make money. Charging $18.00 for ground shipping anything under 50lbs is someone trying to make money on the S&H. Unless you are a UPS store or a FedEx Kinkos you are in business to sell your products and offer the service to ship them as a way to increase your sales. Having a huge markup on S&H will in the long wrong cost a company money.

As for where I am every year we look at the total cost of shipping a package (box, packing, shipping charges, and time) vs what we charge then the average is set as the current shipping price and currently we could wind up losing money this year on S&H. However we also realize that it is better off for us as a company to sell a sweatshirt at a $30 with a 50% markup then then to make $9 on the shipping.

I believe the saying is stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. I know that is a saying is usually said when referring to someone being cheap for stupid reasons but I think it it works in this case as well by trying to make extra money that a walk up customer wouldn't have to pay. My guess would be that id mnmontana really wanted this item he would have been willing to pay $25 for the plates and $9.00 for S&H and if that was the case then this post would have never been started and the company would not be receiving this negative publicity! .

Sorry for the long rant but I've spent too many years working in marketing and have had to put out too many fires created by bad management decisions that where made with the idea of increasing the bottom line but in actuality cost far more in the long run by driving away customers.

**DeathCougar** · 11-26-2008, 02:49 PM

Sorry, but i have to disagree with this thread.

The cost is for shipping and HANDLING, correct? So, lets assume the extra is for handling...ie Box, padding materials, etc etc. That all costs money. So what, is LC Engineering supposed to eat that cost? Or would you just rather they raise their prices and start tacking on "fuel surcharges"? You also forgot to mention LC sends all their parts FULLY insured, meaning if you stuff arrives busted, you WILL get a replacement not just a "tough luck" email.

Shipping is not as cheap as people make it out to be. The wrecking yard I work for just shipped a differential to CT, and it cost us $50 JUST in UPS charges to ship it over there.

And there is always this: If you do not like the cost of shipping, you can always drive down and pick it up yourself. Shipping costs are not always cut and dry, and I do not fault LC Engineering ONE BIT for charging that much for shipping. It doesn't matter what to cost of the part you bought is, shipping will always be high and it only goes up from there.

It would do you well to READ a companies shipping info beforehand:

http://lcengineering.com/help.php?p=1
http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebGe...px?id=shipping

*edit* BTW did you make sure you checked "residential shipment" when checking the price? UPS charges extra to ship to a residence, and charges even more if shipped from a "UPS Store" location

camo31"10.50" · 11-26-2008, 02:57 PM

yea handling auto parts tends to be kinda high these days..i was going to order a Camshaft (cant remember website..or price of cam) and the shipping was like..8 dollars or something...but the handling was OVER $50 BUCKS!!!..i was like..thats insane..because the cam was cheaper than everywhere else..even with shipping..but handling made it about the same as everywhere else..lol..

mnmontana · 11-26-2008, 03:13 PM

were not talking about parts here.... were talking about 2 tiny metal plates, that weigh less than an empty soda can, and can fit inside a wallet.

But to DeathCouger, im not trying to demonoize them... just stating my frustration with them, and pointing out something that would piss off most people. Wether anyone buys from them or not, is their own choice. Personally, I wont be, but others may be fortunate enough to read about it before ordering instead of being surprised.

Also, yes I selected 'ship to residential', and included insurance in the quote I got. Plus, its not like they were shipping this accross the country, they are about 4 hours away from me. Took a week to get the plates, and it costed that much...

If I ordered a part such as a differential, I would expect a large shipping cost. But these thigns litterally could have been sent inside an envelope with 60 cents in stamps. This 'Handling' crap is BS, that should be included in the price of the product itself. Its this kind of crap that makes me refuse to buy off ebay. Yes the item is x dollars cheaper there, but when you look at the shipping and handling fees it ends up costing more.

Its not the money that pissed me off, its the shady crap they pulled.
They listed the price low, and had an 'unknwon fee' to have it shipped. Then it was shipped with the slowest and cheapest method possible, and charged top dollar for it. Thats just flat out wrong.

These 2 plates (problably 20 cents worth of metal), ended up costing 36.90 total. had the plates been listed at 30.00, and 6.90 dollars shipping, I would have bought them still (from the same site), and been 100% content and happy. Notice, its still the same price in the end, but the pricing makes sense. Yes it was cheaper else where, but I heard good reviews on them from this forum.

ozziesironmanoffroad · 11-26-2008, 03:14 PM

well, did u buy it from an auto site? YES. is it a PART to go on your truck? YES. so its considered a part, and thus subject to S&H, sucks huh?

mnmontana · 11-26-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bxlt

My guess would be that id mnmontana really wanted this item he would have been willing to pay $25 for the plates and $9.00 for S&H and if that was the case then this post would have never been started and the company would not be receiving this negative publicity! .

That is EXACTLY my point! I was/am willing to pay the $ for the product, but having a hidden fee of 18 dollars, and calling it a shipping fee is complete BS.

**DeathCougar** · 11-26-2008, 03:43 PM

lol well there is no convincing you, i can see. next time just drive to them if you don't want to pay the shipping.

You also seem to have a problem with the "$.20 in metal" you bought, but you didn't have any problem shelling out $18 without so much as blinking.

I understand you are not trying to demonize them, but I think this thread is out of line. They did not target 'you' specifically, their shipping costs are the same for everyone. If you feel you have been wronged, why not try and contact them to see what can be done? Perhaps they shipped it the wrong way, and accidently charged you the wrong amount? You never know until you talk to someone.

mnmontana · 11-26-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathCougar

lol well there is no convincing you, i can see. next time just drive to them if you don't want to pay the shipping.

You also seem to have a problem with the "$.20 in metal" you bought, but you didn't have any problem shelling out $18 without so much as blinking.

Yeah, its not the money that bothered me... its how they did it. If you read up higher, where i state 'had it been 30 dollars for the products and 6.90 for shipping' id have still bought it, but been a content customer.

Its the fact that this fee was NOT applied at the time of purchase. The shipping and handling fee was not included untill it had already been shipped out their door, when it was too late to do anything about it. Its flat out shady. They know people wont buy from them if they charge their fees at the time of purchase, so they wait untill it is too late to cancel without paying a restocking fee.

Green93 · 11-26-2008, 08:56 PM

I have ordered from LCE twice now. The first time was for their street header kit, and I can't defend them on the claims of slow customer service. The second was for the cat back exhaust plus a test pipe.

The shipping charge on the full exhaust system was $35 for a 36lb package. This is shipped to Blaine, WA where I pick it up and bring it across the border. The shipping and handling charge must be more apparent because of the small original purchase. Just my experience with them.

Jason

Yotas&Jellos · 11-27-2008, 03:18 PM

I didn't bother reading the rest of the thread, but I work in sales and the product is mailed to the customer.

We work with UPS and offer flat rates depending on how much they purchased. But the shipping is PPS&I - processing, packaging, shipping, and insurance. I'm sure since LCE does a lot of business they are using something like this. And that's probably why you paid more then you expected. But what is cool about this, when you do order something large and heavy, you'll probably be paying less then what you expected.

Return it, and go to a hardware store or something to get metal plates. You'll save.

Bigblock · 11-27-2008, 03:35 PM

Shoulda just made em yourself!
Bigblock

Ron Helmuth · 12-26-2008, 12:17 PM

I work in an office and ship things UPS quite frequently. The first complaint I get from folks is the extra $6.50 that UPS charges to ship to a residential address.

Thus when the shipping is $6 for the product it is now$12.50 with the $6.50 residential surcharge to have it delivered to the house where no one is home all day long anyways because most people (not all just the majority) work something like 6-3 or 7-4 or 8-5 you get my drift...

A decal/a nut/a bolt-whenver you ship some really light item you will take a bite in the shorts on shipping. My guess is LC Engineering has covered his bases with their shipping rate.

There is a tradeoff in matters like this. You can burn your own gas and pick it up if they are local. (Toytec is local to me for example)

or 2/ you can ask places to ship via US Postal Service. No trackability but will probably save a few pennies on the actual freight-

Oh you say your item did not show up? sorry but we did ship it... you see how saving the few cents now did not pay off for either party... or

3/ pay UPS and have it delivered to a business address. Save the $6.50 residential surcharge.

When the charge for the product is less or same as the shipping-geez you may want to buy another and peddle one to another Yota owner in your 'hood or have a spare one for yourself...

No direct experience with this vendor. But to me it does not appear they were deceiving you if they post their shipping costs and policies in their site.

Was their cost outrageous for 2 plates-yes probably. But as stated earlier-folks that order a heavier product likely saved some cost.

11-26-2008, 01:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
mnmontana Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 170	Just checked UPS.com, to ship this package 2nd day air mail from them to me, would have been $16... They shipped it to me UPS ground, which should have been around $6.50. __________________ I recycle my oil, I make sure that wherever I drive... it leaks back into the ground from where it came. --------------------------- 1986 Toyota 4Runner - 4 Cyl - Auto - 4x4 - IFS http://www.yotatech.com/f108/sale-tr.../#post51085952 ---------------------------- 2006 Toyota Corolla - 4 cyl - auto - Computer in dash My site = http://www.strangeusa.com

11-26-2008, 01:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
DupermanDave Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Northern Colorado :-( Posts: 1,281	I have heard shoddy things about LC engineering. Firstly, them being overpriced with simple parts. Secondly, their customer service is a little lacking in quality. Thirdly, well....now this shipping incident. __________________ 1989 Toyota pickup 22re - K&N filter with custom air intake

11-26-2008, 02:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
bxlt Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ellensburg, WA Posts: 240	I work in the mail order/web order business at a university book store. We have a flat rate for S$H $8.95 and that is to ship out anything including textbooks. Prices are clearly marked and we have very few complaints about the charges even when some people will pay $8.95 for a $6 item, but to pay $18.00 to ground ship what sounds like something that was well under 10lbs something is a total rip off! I never liked companies, or people on ebay, that use the S&H to make money. Charging $18.00 for ground shipping anything under 50lbs is someone trying to make money on the S&H. Unless you are a UPS store or a FedEx Kinkos you are in business to sell your products and offer the service to ship them as a way to increase your sales. Having a huge markup on S&H will in the long wrong cost a company money. As for where I am every year we look at the total cost of shipping a package (box, packing, shipping charges, and time) vs what we charge then the average is set as the current shipping price and currently we could wind up losing money this year on S&H. However we also realize that it is better off for us as a company to sell a sweatshirt at a $30 with a 50% markup then then to make $9 on the shipping. I believe the saying is stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. I know that is a saying is usually said when referring to someone being cheap for stupid reasons but I think it it works in this case as well by trying to make extra money that a walk up customer wouldn't have to pay. My guess would be that id mnmontana really wanted this item he would have been willing to pay $25 for the plates and $9.00 for S&H and if that was the case then this post would have never been started and the company would not be receiving this negative publicity! . Sorry for the long rant but I've spent too many years working in marketing and have had to put out too many fires created by bad management decisions that where made with the idea of increasing the bottom line but in actuality cost far more in the long run by driving away customers. __________________ 86 Regular Cab, 31x10.50, 22r, 5sp, Marlin 1200lb Heavy Duty Clutch, Smittybuilt Rear Bumper and 275K miles and counting 89 4Runner 3.Slow 5sp 31x10.50 in need of some help but I have plans for it (in no particular order): Front bumper and winch, 2” Body lift, BJ Spacers, Locker 33's and more

11-26-2008, 02:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
camo31"10.50" Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vian, OK Posts: 2,068	yea handling auto parts tends to be kinda high these days..i was going to order a Camshaft (cant remember website..or price of cam) and the shipping was like..8 dollars or something...but the handling was OVER $50 BUCKS!!!..i was like..thats insane..because the cam was cheaper than everywhere else..even with shipping..but handling made it about the same as everywhere else..lol.. __________________ FOR SALE 1986 Ext. Cab 4x4, rebuilt 22R, 5spd, 31x10.50 X-Terrains FOR SALE 1992 SR5 FO RUNNA V6, 5 speed, 4in. trail-master lift, 33x12.50 BFG muds, 4.56 gears!!! and an IMMACULATE interior..yes..you should be jealous "Its still a toyota man.. Dont deprive it of its capabilities.." "If you can read english, Thank a teacher...If you can speak it, Thank a soldier!!" Kelli Ruark-2009

11-26-2008, 03:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
mnmontana Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 170	were not talking about parts here.... were talking about 2 tiny metal plates, that weigh less than an empty soda can, and can fit inside a wallet. But to DeathCouger, im not trying to demonoize them... just stating my frustration with them, and pointing out something that would piss off most people. Wether anyone buys from them or not, is their own choice. Personally, I wont be, but others may be fortunate enough to read about it before ordering instead of being surprised. Also, yes I selected 'ship to residential', and included insurance in the quote I got. Plus, its not like they were shipping this accross the country, they are about 4 hours away from me. Took a week to get the plates, and it costed that much... If I ordered a part such as a differential, I would expect a large shipping cost. But these thigns litterally could have been sent inside an envelope with 60 cents in stamps. This 'Handling' crap is BS, that should be included in the price of the product itself. Its this kind of crap that makes me refuse to buy off ebay. Yes the item is x dollars cheaper there, but when you look at the shipping and handling fees it ends up costing more. Its not the money that pissed me off, its the shady crap they pulled. They listed the price low, and had an 'unknwon fee' to have it shipped. Then it was shipped with the slowest and cheapest method possible, and charged top dollar for it. Thats just flat out wrong. These 2 plates (problably 20 cents worth of metal), ended up costing 36.90 total. had the plates been listed at 30.00, and 6.90 dollars shipping, I would have bought them still (from the same site), and been 100% content and happy. Notice, its still the same price in the end, but the pricing makes sense. Yes it was cheaper else where, but I heard good reviews on them from this forum. __________________ I recycle my oil, I make sure that wherever I drive... it leaks back into the ground from where it came. --------------------------- 1986 Toyota 4Runner - 4 Cyl - Auto - 4x4 - IFS http://www.yotatech.com/f108/sale-tr.../#post51085952 ---------------------------- 2006 Toyota Corolla - 4 cyl - auto - Computer in dash My site = http://www.strangeusa.com Last edited by mnmontana; 11-26-2008 at 04:08 PM.

11-26-2008, 03:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
ozziesironmanoffroad Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Spring Valley, CA Posts: 5,676	well, did u buy it from an auto site? YES. is it a PART to go on your truck? YES. so its considered a part, and thus subject to S&H, sucks huh? __________________ The 22r series engines are made from the fires of hell, and will fight tooth and nail to not be sent back. 1988 Toyota P/U 4x4 22re, 1200 miles on the rebuild engine builder .268 cam pioneer CD deck 31x10.50x15 BFG A/T BAJA 100W lights on prerunner bumper KC Daylighters 100W rancho rs5000 MUD IS A VALID PAINT JOB! If not living life to the fullest, why live it? my trucks official buildup thread

11-26-2008, 08:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
Green93 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Langley, BC Posts: 368	I have ordered from LCE twice now. The first time was for their street header kit, and I can't defend them on the claims of slow customer service. The second was for the cat back exhaust plus a test pipe. The shipping charge on the full exhaust system was $35 for a 36lb package. This is shipped to Blaine, WA where I pick it up and bring it across the border. The shipping and handling charge must be more apparent because of the small original purchase. Just my experience with them. Jason __________________ 1993 Toyota 4WD Ex-Cab Auto 31 10.5 15 BF Goodrich A/T's Front and rear diff. breathers Aisin manual hub swap Clarion Pro Audio CD player MB Quart speakers 3VZ-E V6 with fresh rebuild: Block bored 20 over Engnbldr master rebuild kit Heads rebuilt Engnbldr 1mm o/s valves Weasy2k stage 1 cams Cleaned and balanced injectors LCE ceramic street header kit LCE pro flow exhaust with cat delete http://picasaweb.google.com/Green93Toy/MyToy#

11-27-2008, 03:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
Yotas&Jellos Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 90	I didn't bother reading the rest of the thread, but I work in sales and the product is mailed to the customer. We work with UPS and offer flat rates depending on how much they purchased. But the shipping is PPS&I - processing, packaging, shipping, and insurance. I'm sure since LCE does a lot of business they are using something like this. And that's probably why you paid more then you expected. But what is cool about this, when you do order something large and heavy, you'll probably be paying less then what you expected. Return it, and go to a hardware store or something to get metal plates. You'll save.

11-27-2008, 03:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
Bigblock Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Taylorshole,Mississippi Posts: 913	Shoulda just made em yourself! Bigblock

12-26-2008, 12:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ron Helmuth Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver metro area-CO Posts: 1,339	I work in an office and ship things UPS quite frequently. The first complaint I get from folks is the extra $6.50 that UPS charges to ship to a residential address. Thus when the shipping is $6 for the product it is now$12.50 with the $6.50 residential surcharge to have it delivered to the house where no one is home all day long anyways because most people (not all just the majority) work something like 6-3 or 7-4 or 8-5 you get my drift... A decal/a nut/a bolt-whenver you ship some really light item you will take a bite in the shorts on shipping. My guess is LC Engineering has covered his bases with their shipping rate. There is a tradeoff in matters like this. You can burn your own gas and pick it up if they are local. (Toytec is local to me for example) or 2/ you can ask places to ship via US Postal Service. No trackability but will probably save a few pennies on the actual freight- Oh you say your item did not show up? sorry but we did ship it... you see how saving the few cents now did not pay off for either party... or 3/ pay UPS and have it delivered to a business address. Save the $6.50 residential surcharge. When the charge for the product is less or same as the shipping-geez you may want to buy another and peddle one to another Yota owner in your 'hood or have a spare one for yourself... No direct experience with this vendor. But to me it does not appear they were deceiving you if they post their shipping costs and policies in their site. Was their cost outrageous for 2 plates-yes probably. But as stated earlier-folks that order a heavier product likely saved some cost. __________________ 99 4Runner SR5 4wd 3.4/5 spd- Fact. Rr. Locker/Diff Breather Ext. Old Man Emu lift springs- 881 fronts/890 rears O/M/E shocks- N91s fr./N86 rr. All Pro Off Road welded sliders-prevent body damage! ARB"Taco"bumper/Gamiviti clear lenses/Hella 500s Redline Tuning hood struts/Bushwacker Extend a Fenders all my photos are over on Facebook now-I gave up on photo hosting sorry.... http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=5795132731

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