Sonoran Steel 2nd Gen 4Runner Drop Trac Bar/Lift Proportion Valve Bar

sschaefer3 · 10-25-2005, 08:06 AM

Yes Folks, Hell has frozen over and we have actually made a new and unique part for the 2nd Gen 4Runner stock rear link suspension.

I did an SAS on a 1991 4Runner out here in Arizona and in the process, I did notice that he had a very good condition trac/panhard bar on the thing.

I told him I would take it and the very first 2nd Gen core was born. The bar will look exactly like the 3rd Gen bar, with the exception of the proportion valve tab will be lifted back up 2.5". So the bar drops 2.5" adjusting the rear axle back and the proportion valve bracket raises up to reset that right back to stock as well.

Price is the same $150.00 plus a $150.00 core that will be refunded, even though these are more work than the 3rd Gen bars.

*** Very Important, if you are from the "rust belt" MAKE SURE to look under your truck and see if your original bar is in acceptable condition. If it is seriously pitted or rust damaged, we will not be able to accept a bar like this as a core.

The core program is something to help you out so you have zero down time. If you have a trashed original bar, look for one from a western junk yard and have that drop shipped to us. Or you can send your rusty bar in and we will convert YOUR bar. No you can not drive the truck with the bar off.

Pics later, but it's the same thing as the 3rd Gen bar.

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Flygtenstein · 10-26-2005, 12:30 PM

Buy it.

This is what everyone with Cruiser coils should have to make the truck right.

sschaefer3 · 10-26-2005, 12:44 PM

The enthusiasm for 2nd Gen parts is amazing. This will probably be it for the 2nd Gen then.

One more thing, but that will be sold by someone else.

4x4Lamm · 10-26-2005, 01:00 PM

Its only been a day. I think in general things that are more mild and bolt on will appeal to the 2nd gen crowd. Also, I'm not sure people see the value of this because it does not come up in "I want 33s on my 4runner" threads often. Perhaps you should educate us all. I read the post and the info on your website but I'm still not sold on it. I had 33s on my 92 and no panhard adjustment and I never had a problem with it. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think the product could be "sold" better.

Lamm

4Hummer · 10-26-2005, 01:14 PM

Im still waiting on the PICS.

your products are always TOP NOTCH.

**rocket** · 10-31-2005, 01:56 AM

I've been waiting for pics as well, preferably installed.
I also agree with Lamm..."Perhaps you should educate us all." i.e. What applictaions would this bar be needed for? Cruiser coils only?

sschaefer3 · 10-31-2005, 05:04 AM

You guys have to understand that I am extremely gun shy on 2nd Gen stuff.

You can run 33's on a 2nd Gen with a 1" body lift and a set of non sagged rear coils. No trac bar correction needed, as the bar is still straight.

Now if you were to add a set of FJ-80 rear coils, as Cheese did. Then all of a sudden you have rear lift, quite a bit actually. In the neighborhood of 3" over stock.

That being said, if you leave you bar stock and do nothing, with 3" of lift, here is what will happen.

1. You will no longer have rear brakes. The load sensing valve will at all time rear unloaded, not just unloaded, but hanging on the lift at an auto repair shop unloaded. No or minimal hydraulics will be sent to your rear brakes.

2. Your axle will be off-set. Now sure you can drive down the road like this and after time you will get used to the odd handling of the vehicle. But also over time you will break off the tops of your shocks because under full compression and droop over and over you are pushing the shaft too far over and the upper mount of the shock with the two small cushions, only has so much movement, you have just taken it past what it can do. Then the frame of the vehicle will over time cut the shaft and it will break. Finally why live with altered handling when you can have the truck drive like it did stock, with 3" of lift. Adjust the bar, it's an easy no brainier.

Now as for your pics. They are coming, but not today, not tomorrow, and probably not next week. I have the stock 2nd Gen bar but I just got it last Thursday. I have to send it up to Stubbs and he will bend an "S" shape drop tube and remove the stock level valve bracket and rebuild one 2.5" higher. All TIG welded back together of course, I think besides a very few things SKY makes, we are the only ones to TIG weld anything. TIG is far superior to MIG and much more expensive to run. We are not going to just give you a strip of steel like Downey or NWOR and patch things together with a ton of bolts and brackets. This will be a 100% bolt on trac bar for a suspension lifted 2nd Gen 4Runner, one set of factory spaced mounting points and that's it.

I will be sending Stubbs, 50 Stubbs Welding T-Shirts, 5 FJ-62 steering shafts, 1 3rd Gen Steering U-Joint & 1 2nd Gen Trac Bar. It makes more sense to ship it all up there at once. This will be in a week or two.

You will get a completed bar pic. I can't say that you will get an installed picture because typically even if I ask, I only get pics back from very few customers. So unless I install it personally on a 2nd Gen in Phoenix and the one it came from has leaf springs now, an installed pic may have to wait until we get a customer that sends us one.

4x4Lamm · 10-31-2005, 08:14 AM

What advantage does this have over the $10 LSPV and $55 panhard drop-bracket from Downey?

Lamm

**Tofer** · 10-31-2005, 08:18 AM

*subscribes*

sschaefer3 · 10-31-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4Lamm

What advantage does this have over the $10 LSPV and $55 panhard drop-bracket from Downey?

Lamm

Easy, quality and strength. Those are band-aid fixes, this is an entirely new single factory like piece.

If you can't afford our bar no problem, pick up the Downey stuff.

Hence this comes full circle on my 2nd Gen hesitations. You have to think of 4 wheeling in the 80's and 90's. There were no extreme trails, almost no one had a locker, there were no crawlers, no one did SAS's and high steer did not exist.

The parts from Downey and NWOR we designed for these eras. If you don't wheel your truck hard, shop Downey. If you wheel your truck hard, buy our bar, it is designed for today’s trails, not trails of the 80's and early 90's which is when all these brackets were designed.

Bottom line is you get what you pay for. Does everyone need our bar, NO. Are there 2nd Gen's out there that wheel hard and would greatly benefit from out bar? YES, and those folks are going to trash that Downey tin quickly.

Just chill out and wait for the pics.

4Hummer · 10-31-2005, 10:38 AM

Watching this post very Closey as well.

Hopefully come spring when I do my lift, you will still be making these.

sschaefer3 · 10-31-2005, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Hummer

Hopefully come spring when I do my lift, you will still be making these.

We will. Now that we have a core bar, we will make them. We have 6 3rd Gen core bars and at any given time, most of them are out.

The only thing with the 2nd Gen bar is that you may have to wait for the last customer to install his and send his stock bar back.

I'll take a pic of the stock bar and show you guys what I have in mind.

sschaefer3 · 11-29-2005, 09:36 AM

I shipped the 2nd Gen off to Stubbs yesterday, so we will have an actual modifed bar here shortly.

I had to wait until I had all the 3rd Gen SAS parts compiled and sent a big batch of stuff up there.

So watch for an actual completed bar soon here.

sschaefer3 · 12-13-2005, 07:31 AM

This bar is considerably smaller than a 3rd Gen track bar. We are going to have to order expensive 1.5" OD DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) Seamless tube for this to get the correct ID.

This bar is proving to be quite complicated to implement, but so far we are still tugging onward.

20' of DOM on the way.

cootees · 12-13-2005, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sschaefer3

We are going to have to order expensive 1.5" OD DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) Seamless tube for this to get the correct ID.

Is this going to affect the quoted price by much? Do you already have a waiting list for these?

sschaefer3 · 12-13-2005, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cootees

Is this going to affect the quoted price by much? Do you already have a waiting list for these?

We or should I say, I will just eat the extra material cost. The final price will stay the same. $150.00 plus a core charge to make sure we get your stock bar back.

We only have one core and I do not plan on buying more. No list as of yet, but we'll just have to encourage folks to send the cores back ASAP.

We'll see how this goes and take it from there, if we have a demand for more cores, I will get more, but not until I see how this sells.

Epic Ed · 12-13-2005, 08:31 AM

Steve, is this something you could do on mine in a day if I drop it off? Or should I just remove the bar, bring it over, and let you have it a few days?

Ed

sschaefer3 · 12-13-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epic Ed

Steve, is this something you could do on mine in a day if I drop it off? Or should I just remove the bar, bring it over, and let you have it a few days?

Ed

I'll have one sent here and we can swap yours out. You won't have to pay a core since I will take your stock one right there on the spot. We can install it quickly.

sschaefer3 · 12-14-2005, 06:28 AM

This gets more complex. I either have to buy the DOM in Phoenix, 1/2 the cost of what Stubbs can get it in Nor. Cal. or he has to drive down to Sacramento. If this is the case, it may be a few weeks as he has to build a set of racks to haul 20' tubes.

We're working on it. It would be easier for me to make the 2nd Gen bar in Phoenix, but I do not yet have a TIG welder and want this to be a perfect as possible.

sschaefer3 · 12-31-2005, 06:36 PM

This gets LESS complex. I have bought 5 (five) sticks of 40" DOM tube, 1.5" OD and 3/16" wall here in Phoenix/Tempe.

I will be shipping the DOM to Stubbs. We are going to have a 2nd Gen Bar for sure.

Ed, you get the first one and you can pickup your IFS brace then as well.

A 3/16" wall DOM trac bar, droped with factory ends. This is really going to be something.

sschaefer3 · 01-03-2006, 07:11 AM

Ok these are also not going to be 2.5" bars like the 3rd Gen bars. It seems on the 2nd Gen people are more at the 3"-3.5" area.

So this will be a 3" or a 3.5" bar. Gotta find out were most folks are. Also if you look at the 3" Downey drop bracket, that thing only drops like 1.5" WTF?

Flygtenstein · 01-03-2006, 06:50 PM

Perhaps more telling is rim to fender in the rear.

FWIW, I was at 14 and 3/4 with cruiser coils.

Is it a problem if I only have 3.5" in front?

sschaefer3 · 01-03-2006, 10:46 PM

3.5" what?

So did you find out what the difference between an FJ-60 box and an FJ-62 box is?

No one knows.

PAhydrohead · 01-05-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

Perhaps more telling is rim to fender in the rear.

FWIW, I was at 14 and 3/4 with cruiser coils.

Is it a problem if I only have 3.5" in front?

Cheese,
You said WAS at 14 and 3/4 with cruiser coils. What are you at now? I measure 17" from the rim of my 15" ALCOAs to the bottom of the bushwacker fender flares with my cruiser coils.

cootees · 01-11-2006, 03:32 PM

Anything new? Know when they will be available?

10-26-2005, 12:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	Buy it. This is what everyone with Cruiser coils should have to make the truck right. __________________ Ease on down the road.

10-26-2005, 12:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	The enthusiasm for 2nd Gen parts is amazing. This will probably be it for the 2nd Gen then. One more thing, but that will be sold by someone else. __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

10-26-2005, 01:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
4x4Lamm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,573	Its only been a day. I think in general things that are more mild and bolt on will appeal to the 2nd gen crowd. Also, I'm not sure people see the value of this because it does not come up in "I want 33s on my 4runner" threads often. Perhaps you should educate us all. I read the post and the info on your website but I'm still not sold on it. I had 33s on my 92 and no panhard adjustment and I never had a problem with it. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think the product could be "sold" better. Lamm __________________ -1992 4Runner SR5, Destroyed by fire. Lots of mods. I will miss it. -1995 4Runner SR5 Limited, Also known as the money pit. Becoming a trail rig now. -2004 Tacoma SR5 TRD, My new daily driver. I love this truck!

10-26-2005, 01:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
4Hummer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,975	Im still waiting on the PICS. your products are always TOP NOTCH. __________________ Michael 1991 4Runner 22RE. CHOP www.obsessiveoffroadclub.com

10-31-2005, 01:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
rocket Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,527	I've been waiting for pics as well, preferably installed. I also agree with Lamm..."Perhaps you should educate us all." i.e. What applictaions would this bar be needed for? Cruiser coils only? __________________ '96-'02 gone: '92

10-31-2005, 05:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	You guys have to understand that I am extremely gun shy on 2nd Gen stuff. You can run 33's on a 2nd Gen with a 1" body lift and a set of non sagged rear coils. No trac bar correction needed, as the bar is still straight. Now if you were to add a set of FJ-80 rear coils, as Cheese did. Then all of a sudden you have rear lift, quite a bit actually. In the neighborhood of 3" over stock. That being said, if you leave you bar stock and do nothing, with 3" of lift, here is what will happen. 1. You will no longer have rear brakes. The load sensing valve will at all time rear unloaded, not just unloaded, but hanging on the lift at an auto repair shop unloaded. No or minimal hydraulics will be sent to your rear brakes. 2. Your axle will be off-set. Now sure you can drive down the road like this and after time you will get used to the odd handling of the vehicle. But also over time you will break off the tops of your shocks because under full compression and droop over and over you are pushing the shaft too far over and the upper mount of the shock with the two small cushions, only has so much movement, you have just taken it past what it can do. Then the frame of the vehicle will over time cut the shaft and it will break. Finally why live with altered handling when you can have the truck drive like it did stock, with 3" of lift. Adjust the bar, it's an easy no brainier. Now as for your pics. They are coming, but not today, not tomorrow, and probably not next week. I have the stock 2nd Gen bar but I just got it last Thursday. I have to send it up to Stubbs and he will bend an "S" shape drop tube and remove the stock level valve bracket and rebuild one 2.5" higher. All TIG welded back together of course, I think besides a very few things SKY makes, we are the only ones to TIG weld anything. TIG is far superior to MIG and much more expensive to run. We are not going to just give you a strip of steel like Downey or NWOR and patch things together with a ton of bolts and brackets. This will be a 100% bolt on trac bar for a suspension lifted 2nd Gen 4Runner, one set of factory spaced mounting points and that's it. I will be sending Stubbs, 50 Stubbs Welding T-Shirts, 5 FJ-62 steering shafts, 1 3rd Gen Steering U-Joint & 1 2nd Gen Trac Bar. It makes more sense to ship it all up there at once. This will be in a week or two. You will get a completed bar pic. I can't say that you will get an installed picture because typically even if I ask, I only get pics back from very few customers. So unless I install it personally on a 2nd Gen in Phoenix and the one it came from has leaf springs now, an installed pic may have to wait until we get a customer that sends us one. __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

10-31-2005, 08:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
4x4Lamm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,573	What advantage does this have over the $10 LSPV and $55 panhard drop-bracket from Downey? Lamm __________________ -1992 4Runner SR5, Destroyed by fire. Lots of mods. I will miss it. -1995 4Runner SR5 Limited, Also known as the money pit. Becoming a trail rig now. -2004 Tacoma SR5 TRD, My new daily driver. I love this truck!

10-31-2005, 08:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
Tofer Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tacoma WA. Posts: 6,900	subscribes __________________ 94 4runenr: all the good stuff....... 89 4runner: 3.0, Auto, 5.29 lockright f/r. 31x10.5 wildcountry ATs. 81 2wd pickup: 22R \| 5-sp \| long bed \|Civic SI seats \| LockRight \| Hella 500s pacific-crawlers.com For all your Trail-gear and HID lighting Solutions Needs check out yotaworks.com Online store coming soon :)

10-31-2005, 10:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
4Hummer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,975	Watching this post very Closey as well. Hopefully come spring when I do my lift, you will still be making these. __________________ Michael 1991 4Runner 22RE. CHOP www.obsessiveoffroadclub.com

11-29-2005, 09:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	I shipped the 2nd Gen off to Stubbs yesterday, so we will have an actual modifed bar here shortly. I had to wait until I had all the 3rd Gen SAS parts compiled and sent a big batch of stuff up there. So watch for an actual completed bar soon here. __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

12-13-2005, 07:31 AM	#14 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	This bar is considerably smaller than a 3rd Gen track bar. We are going to have to order expensive 1.5" OD DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) Seamless tube for this to get the correct ID. This bar is proving to be quite complicated to implement, but so far we are still tugging onward. 20' of DOM on the way. __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

12-13-2005, 08:31 AM	#17 (permalink)
Epic Ed Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 654	Steve, is this something you could do on mine in a day if I drop it off? Or should I just remove the bar, bring it over, and let you have it a few days? Ed __________________ '95 4Runner\|32x11.5 BFG TA KOs\|Hi-flow Cat\|Dynomax muffler; 2.25" exhaust\| Downey Headers\|4.88 gears \|Detroit EZ locker \|Detroit TruTrack\|BJ spacers\|Downey HD coils\|2" rear spring spacers\|Rancho RS9000X/RS5000s\|WARN hubs\|TJM T15

12-14-2005, 06:28 AM	#19 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	This gets more complex. I either have to buy the DOM in Phoenix, 1/2 the cost of what Stubbs can get it in Nor. Cal. or he has to drive down to Sacramento. If this is the case, it may be a few weeks as he has to build a set of racks to haul 20' tubes. We're working on it. It would be easier for me to make the 2nd Gen bar in Phoenix, but I do not yet have a TIG welder and want this to be a perfect as possible. __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

12-31-2005, 06:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	This gets LESS complex. I have bought 5 (five) sticks of 40" DOM tube, 1.5" OD and 3/16" wall here in Phoenix/Tempe. I will be shipping the DOM to Stubbs. We are going to have a 2nd Gen Bar for sure. Ed, you get the first one and you can pickup your IFS brace then as well. A 3/16" wall DOM trac bar, droped with factory ends. This is really going to be something. __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

01-03-2006, 07:11 AM	#21 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	Ok these are also not going to be 2.5" bars like the 3rd Gen bars. It seems on the 2nd Gen people are more at the 3"-3.5" area. So this will be a 3" or a 3.5" bar. Gotta find out were most folks are. Also if you look at the 3" Downey drop bracket, that thing only drops like 1.5" WTF? __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

01-03-2006, 06:50 PM	#22 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	Perhaps more telling is rim to fender in the rear. FWIW, I was at 14 and 3/4 with cruiser coils. Is it a problem if I only have 3.5" in front? __________________ Ease on down the road.

01-03-2006, 10:46 PM	#23 (permalink)
sschaefer3 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Arizona Posts: 5,494	3.5" what? So did you find out what the difference between an FJ-60 box and an FJ-62 box is? No one knows. __________________ Steve Schaefer *WWW.SonoranSteel.Com* Suspension Lift Kits * Rock Sliders * Straight Axle Conversions * 4Runner/FJC Rubicon Express Lower Links * Accessories * Daystar Products Dealer * TJM Bull Bar Dealer * Deaver Leaf Spring Dealer * Tokico & Bilstein Shock Dealer * ViAir Dealer * Total Chaos Dealer * TOYTEC Dealer * and like everyone else a Trail Gear Dealer

01-11-2006, 03:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
cootees Contributing Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Roanoke Va Posts: 919	Anything new? Know when they will be available? __________________ -- '90 4Runner 2Dr 3.0 / sas /OME 860 coils / rear e-locker / 32's/ MC Rear bumper / TG Sliders / surco basket / cobra 18 wxstII / ISR / Magnaflow exhaust

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