Twin stick or dual t-case?
11-09-2007, 07:30 AM
#21
Contributing Member
Hey Ike, installing twin sticks on a toy case is no 30 min job. First, you have to pull the t-case and then tear it down to remove the shift interlock pin, otherwise you will have cosmetic twin sticks and not functional ones.
Twin sticks on a toy case gets you 2wd low range and a true neutral.
Other t-cases like Dana 300s, NP205s, Stakk, Atlas, etc, give you a front wheel drive option, which is useful for tight turns.
Twin sticks on a toy case gets you 2wd low range and a true neutral.
Other t-cases like Dana 300s, NP205s, Stakk, Atlas, etc, give you a front wheel drive option, which is useful for tight turns.
However, that is a good point. I can see where that wouldn't always happen on every truck, and if it didn't, it would be much more involved. Thanks.
11-09-2007, 07:37 AM
#22
Took me a few hours to get mine out and that was with the case already out of the truck. Mine was in a freshly rebuilt case and I think the assembly lube/grease in there was making a powerful suction that prevented pulling the pin. Had to have the case on it's side, a small ground down pencil magnet and then shifting back and forth while pulling gently with the magnet to finally ease the pin out. The other critical point is when you drive out the roll pin in the shift rail, if that falls into the case, you'll likely be pulling the case to get that out!
11-09-2007, 07:55 AM
#23
Registered User
Thread Starter
Ok so really its all about gearing guys, really appreciate your help.
My ultimate goal is to build up a 5 speed 86-95 truck/ 86-89 4runner, 22re or 3.0 so far is a hard situation to make my mind up. HG goes on the 3.0 I can redo it properly and have 0 issues, 22re just doesnt make enough power in my book to do what I want without gearing very low (say 4.88 or 5.29 or 33x12.5 or in the end 35's maybe). Either way the truck will come into play by this summer if I can find one that is in decent shape for cost. An SAS may come some day but even with all the other mods its too $$$ up front.
The reason i ask all of these Q's is so I dont waste my time with junk I wont be able to take real advantage of and use. My basic idea of wheeling is going on the moderate/harder trails, I dont like rockcrawling that much but have seen normal situations on moderate trails where dual cases really helped. Basically it allowed the person i rode with to never use the clutch on their 5 speed 22re truck and just crawl along-whereas my T100 had issues A) B/C its an auto w/4.30's, B) B/C throttle by wire is hard to control and I couldnt walk along and was constantly switching in and out of 2nd and low on the trans to creep or go faster.
So basically for my purposes if I did any rock crawling it would be mild stuff. I dont plan on doing insane stuff, just not my style. So do I do dual cases, or would it be smarter to take 1 case and stick 4.7's in it? I dont mind all the work and know its involved and stuff, I can do it or will have help to do it anyways..since the truck isnt a DD I dont mind if I cant play with it for some time. I would prefer the truck at least somewhat drivable on the road..
Anyways so best advice here:
Assume in one case I find a 3.0 with 5 speed and the other a 22re 5 speed.
1. Do duals
2. Run a lower geared t-case
3. Leave it alone, I dont need this mod..
In the end I am gonna run 33 or 35's (depends on how things go), a 3-4" suspension lift, 2" body lift, and all the other goodies. But $ is a concern so I really wanted to know if this mod is worth it..
I appreciate all answers and your time Fellas.
My ultimate goal is to build up a 5 speed 86-95 truck/ 86-89 4runner, 22re or 3.0 so far is a hard situation to make my mind up. HG goes on the 3.0 I can redo it properly and have 0 issues, 22re just doesnt make enough power in my book to do what I want without gearing very low (say 4.88 or 5.29 or 33x12.5 or in the end 35's maybe). Either way the truck will come into play by this summer if I can find one that is in decent shape for cost. An SAS may come some day but even with all the other mods its too $$$ up front.
The reason i ask all of these Q's is so I dont waste my time with junk I wont be able to take real advantage of and use. My basic idea of wheeling is going on the moderate/harder trails, I dont like rockcrawling that much but have seen normal situations on moderate trails where dual cases really helped. Basically it allowed the person i rode with to never use the clutch on their 5 speed 22re truck and just crawl along-whereas my T100 had issues A) B/C its an auto w/4.30's, B) B/C throttle by wire is hard to control and I couldnt walk along and was constantly switching in and out of 2nd and low on the trans to creep or go faster.
So basically for my purposes if I did any rock crawling it would be mild stuff. I dont plan on doing insane stuff, just not my style. So do I do dual cases, or would it be smarter to take 1 case and stick 4.7's in it? I dont mind all the work and know its involved and stuff, I can do it or will have help to do it anyways..since the truck isnt a DD I dont mind if I cant play with it for some time. I would prefer the truck at least somewhat drivable on the road..
Anyways so best advice here:
Assume in one case I find a 3.0 with 5 speed and the other a 22re 5 speed.
1. Do duals
2. Run a lower geared t-case
3. Leave it alone, I dont need this mod..
In the end I am gonna run 33 or 35's (depends on how things go), a 3-4" suspension lift, 2" body lift, and all the other goodies. But $ is a concern so I really wanted to know if this mod is worth it..
I appreciate all answers and your time Fellas.
Last edited by CJM; 11-09-2007 at 08:02 AM.
11-09-2007, 08:04 AM
#24
Dual case or lower gears will both work. I find dual cases gives a more flexible system but lower gears is probably lower cost. Why is dual case more flexible? You get a 2L (without a twin stick shifter) and you get two low ranges, one stock and one lower. Stock low range is nice because it basically splits the transmission gear range in half (OK - 1/2.28 or 1/2.56). So that gives you some overlap in gear selection for the terrain. With a single super low range gear, you have 5-4-3-2-1 in high range then 5-4-3-2-1 in low range. If you get into a trail where 1H is too high a gear, then you need to shift to 5L and if the trail smooths out, you need to shift back to 1H and so forth. Shifting t-case range = stopping.
11-09-2007, 08:32 AM
#25
Contributing Member
Well, for a 3.0 5spd, you will have a chain drive case. To regear would require an adapter to go to a gear drive case, you would have to find/buy a gear drive case, and pay for the gears.
Marlin Crawler now makes an adapter (MC10) to put a crawlbox in front of your chaindrive case (note that the gear drive low is 2.28:1 whereas the chaindrive low is 2.56:1). In the end, it will cost you about the same to do a 4.7 gear drive case or dual stock cases (one gear, one chain), but you have more flexibility with duals.
I got a great deal on my setup used, so it is what it is. Looking back, I think stock dual cases would have been fine - I don't know that I would have gone with 4.7's in one case, as the uberlow is pretty silly.
Marlin Crawler now makes an adapter (MC10) to put a crawlbox in front of your chaindrive case (note that the gear drive low is 2.28:1 whereas the chaindrive low is 2.56:1). In the end, it will cost you about the same to do a 4.7 gear drive case or dual stock cases (one gear, one chain), but you have more flexibility with duals.
I got a great deal on my setup used, so it is what it is. Looking back, I think stock dual cases would have been fine - I don't know that I would have gone with 4.7's in one case, as the uberlow is pretty silly.
11-09-2007, 08:52 AM
#26
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Just to add my .02.
I wish that Inchworm's "lefty" have been available when I built my drivetrain. That is the way to go.
I do like the Tacoma case I ended up with though...I had ORS re-wire the case to give me the option of 2WD low range.
So I have the Marlin built 5 speed with 5.15 1st gear, Marlin reduction unit with 4.7's and the '99 Tacoma case with push button 4WD that allows 2WD low at 2.57:1. With my final axle ratio added in, that gives me a combined low of 470:1. Almost useless, BUT the choice of 2.57 or 4.7 is the point. I can always find the right gear. And the ability to turn 40's on the highway with the little 3.0 is pretty amazing.
I wish that Inchworm's "lefty" have been available when I built my drivetrain. That is the way to go.
I do like the Tacoma case I ended up with though...I had ORS re-wire the case to give me the option of 2WD low range.
So I have the Marlin built 5 speed with 5.15 1st gear, Marlin reduction unit with 4.7's and the '99 Tacoma case with push button 4WD that allows 2WD low at 2.57:1. With my final axle ratio added in, that gives me a combined low of 470:1. Almost useless, BUT the choice of 2.57 or 4.7 is the point. I can always find the right gear. And the ability to turn 40's on the highway with the little 3.0 is pretty amazing.
11-09-2007, 09:13 AM
#27
Contributing Member
This is one example of an obstacle where I go "uberlow". It would have been very difficult if not near impossible to clean it with the stock gearing and a 5spd. Would have to go through to quick. You can see the dust coming off the front PS tire. That's because the line is to tight to turn, and you have to bump and slip past that knob. "Uberlow" let's me mess around, get things just right and comfortably crawl out even lifting a wheel.
Not trying to brag, plenty of guys here wheel stuff at this level and much harder. Just putting up an example of when "uberlow" really works for me and the types of obstacles you should be looking at tackling before investing in duals (or SAS for that matter
)I think it doesn't make as much sense to put in dual cases and run stock gears in both. The 4.7 alone is really nice to use on the trail, and the 2.28 is basically stock for some of the slightly faster stuff.
If you go with the V6, you'll have to upgrade to 23 splines anyway, so might as well get the 4.7 for the rear while you are at it.
As to your question as to whether you need it, my suggestion might be to wheel with the stock setup until you find you have a lot of problems with stalling or not being able to go slow enough (or controlled enough) through the hardest obstacles. If you do go as far as an SAS, you'll need a new front DS anyway, so you can combine that project with your dual tranny install.
It's a snowball effect for sure, but I think that most here who have added lower gears really enjoy the benefits they provide... I know I do.
Last edited by Elvota; 11-09-2007 at 09:15 AM.
11-09-2007, 09:42 AM
#28
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks guys. We shall see what happens but I strongly lean towards dual cases at this point. I of course planned on wheeling before to get a feel for it, but any info before hand is always good info.
Either way eventual goal is SAS (if I cant find a SFA to begin with, it is hard ya know) and dual t-case till I discover otherwise.
Either way eventual goal is SAS (if I cant find a SFA to begin with, it is hard ya know) and dual t-case till I discover otherwise.
Last edited by CJM; 11-09-2007 at 09:44 AM.
11-09-2007, 02:29 PM
#29
Contributing Member
Elvota - maybe I will feel like that after I've had them a while, but right now I'm just so happy with the 4.7's (and still be able to get around in 2.3) that the uberlow seems a bit overkill.
But we're doing a trail tonight where I'll be able to play with it more...
But we're doing a trail tonight where I'll be able to play with it more...
11-09-2007, 02:51 PM
#30
Contributing Member
Kind of like having tons of extra horsepower. You may never actually use it, but it's nice to know it's there when you need it.
Wait... how do I know anything about extra HP with a 3.0 under the hood.
11-09-2007, 11:35 PM
#32
Registered User
Technically, yes, you can put a twin shift shifter on that case. All you need to do is pull the interlock pin that prevents independent 2-4 and H-L shifting and then put on the twin sticks, one in each shift rail.
Now practically (assuming you want a simple off-the-shelf bolt-on kit), not sure if anyone makes a twin stick kit for your transfer case. Nothing to do with chain or gear driven, it is the shape of the shifter base plate. Problem is Toyota has about as many different t-case shifter bases as they do t-cases. I show 3 different bases on my web page below, and there are more that I don't have information for:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...shtml#Ordering
Have heard of a few folks who have done some grinding on the shift rail gates and have rigged their t-case up for twin-stick style shifting with the existing single shifter. Might be able to find a thread or two over on the Pirate4x4.com forum.
Now practically (assuming you want a simple off-the-shelf bolt-on kit), not sure if anyone makes a twin stick kit for your transfer case. Nothing to do with chain or gear driven, it is the shape of the shifter base plate. Problem is Toyota has about as many different t-case shifter bases as they do t-cases. I show 3 different bases on my web page below, and there are more that I don't have information for:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...shtml#Ordering
Have heard of a few folks who have done some grinding on the shift rail gates and have rigged their t-case up for twin-stick style shifting with the existing single shifter. Might be able to find a thread or two over on the Pirate4x4.com forum.
holy fricken epilepsy fit batman!!!!
02-25-2011, 06:51 AM
#33
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i also have a question about this and want to know if it works...from what ive heard you can get a t-case from a junkyard or something and split the front half off. then take an adapter and join the two together. is this possible and would using the stock gear in the used case just give me the same speed no extra torque or will it double up the gears
02-25-2011, 07:07 AM
#34
Yes you can do that, called a dual transfer case or really a case and a half as you have 2 reduction boxes and one transfer (i.e. front/rear drive section) case.
And you have a combination of gearing, 1:1 if both cases in high range, or 2.28:1 if you have either case in low range and 5.2:1 (2.28 x 2.28) if you have both cases in low range.
And you have a combination of gearing, 1:1 if both cases in high range, or 2.28:1 if you have either case in low range and 5.2:1 (2.28 x 2.28) if you have both cases in low range.
02-25-2011, 10:42 AM
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now do you have to have an adapter for this or can they bolt straight together?
and my last question is how can i tell if my case is forward or top shift it came from another truck.
and my last question is how can i tell if my case is forward or top shift it came from another truck.
02-25-2011, 11:50 AM
#36
and my last question is how can i tell if my case is forward or top shift it came from another truck.
- http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/topshifter/
In other words, does the t-case shifter come out of the "top" of the t-case or does it come out "forward" of the t-case (i.e. in the transmission housing)?
10-07-2014, 06:35 PM
#39
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Realizing that this is an old post, I don't know what sort of response I will get....
I have purchased a used transmission with a Marlin Dual Case adapter (4th gen adapter plate), and following this discussion, it appears that they have modified the front transfer case and moved the shift lever for forward. The front shifter will go High/Neutral/Low. The back shifter is the typical U-shaped pattern.
As far as I can tell, it should be considered OK to put the front transfer in low range without going into 4WD, or alternatively to go into 4WD in the back (Hi or Low) and then compound it with the High of Low range of the front stick.
It would appear that I will need to cut two new holes in my floor to accommodate this tranny, and then perhaps cover the original transfer stick location.
If I've got this much right, then my question is to confirm whether there is any shifting order or combination that is not good for this tranny.
I have purchased a used transmission with a Marlin Dual Case adapter (4th gen adapter plate), and following this discussion, it appears that they have modified the front transfer case and moved the shift lever for forward. The front shifter will go High/Neutral/Low. The back shifter is the typical U-shaped pattern.
As far as I can tell, it should be considered OK to put the front transfer in low range without going into 4WD, or alternatively to go into 4WD in the back (Hi or Low) and then compound it with the High of Low range of the front stick.
It would appear that I will need to cut two new holes in my floor to accommodate this tranny, and then perhaps cover the original transfer stick location.
If I've got this much right, then my question is to confirm whether there is any shifting order or combination that is not good for this tranny.
