Toyota e-locker or ARB air locker??

ranma21 · 08-30-2004, 11:27 PM

What do you all think?? Which one is stronger or better in terms of quality? I am deciding which way to go now, I do not wanna get one that I will regret later. Appreciate any inform all ation for you all

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ErikB · 08-31-2004, 07:30 AM

Both are decent quality, but the ARB is more bullet-proof, IMHO.

WolfpackTLC · 08-31-2004, 07:37 AM

Lessee here...

Both are spools when locked.

Both are selectable.

I THINK both are full carrier replacements, but I'm not sure.. I KNOW the ARB is.

I vote ARB. Stronger and more reliable. (barring of course, the bad air line install.)

shazaam · 08-31-2004, 07:50 AM

well if you ever decide to lock the front . then you will have ot go with ARB, if you want selectable. Makes sense just to go with ARB the first time,and then when your ready to lock the front, you'll be all set up. Just pop in the locker and plug the air line into the compressor.

kyle_22r · 08-31-2004, 09:48 AM

why is the ARB stronger? i always hear problems with them blowing seals...

if i go selectable on my truck, it'll be e-lockers front and rear

anthony1 · 08-31-2004, 10:34 AM

I got e-locker in the rear ( converted to cable ) and ARB in the front.....

ErikB · 08-31-2004, 10:46 AM

ARB's are designed to be beaten on, E-lockers aren't.

"Destructive laboratory testing is carried out to ensure the strength of the Air Locker exceeds that of the axles or other driveline components. Environmental test cells subject prototype models to high (120ºC) and low (-24ºC) temperature running conditions, as well as harsh wheelspin engagement for cycle durations of more than 20,000 actuations. Finally, field-testing is carried out in the harshest environments imaginable."
http://www.arbusa.com/air_locker_design_engineering.htm

I don't think Toyota goes to that effort to make sure their E-lockers will hold up to that kind of abuse, the kind of abuse we like to put them through. In fact, they make sure you can't abuse it by forcing you to engage it only in 4-lo and under 5mph (little or no wheel spin).
I've also heard of several E-locker side-gear failures. I've got one broken one in my garage. Its not common, but it happens.

ARB leaks are primarily due to installer error. Mine has never leaked. I know others who have been running them for many years without leaks. The newer seal carrier designs are also set up so that it is more difficult for the installer to screw up the install as well.

Shane · 08-31-2004, 10:46 AM

Both can and have been broken. Arb can lose it's air seals, and will unlock if the line loses pressure. Electric can have actuator problems but will not unlock if the wires are broken and can be manually engaged/disengaged. Electric has position sensing switches that can give you positive feedback of it's status, ARB does not.

ARB is a carrier replacement, Electric is a third member replacement which requires irreversible modifications to the axle housing.

My vote goes to electric.

Shane · 08-31-2004, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikB

ARB's are designed to be beaten on, E-lockers aren't.

I have seen MANY more broken ARB lockers than e-lockers (only one that I know of). Keep in mind however that there are a vastly larger number ARBs seeing abusive use.

Shane · 08-31-2004, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikB

In fact, they make sure you can't abuse it by forcing you to engage it only in 4-lo and under 5mph (little or no wheel spin).

What do you think would happen if some brainless imbecile was burning off a rear tire and decided to (or even accidentally) lock his ARB? Kaboom!!!

Isn't Jeep selling wranglers now with an ARB from the factory? I'm sure they put in a safety interlock as well...

ErikB · 08-31-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane

What do you think would happen if some brainless imbecile was burning off a rear tire and decided to (or even accidentally) lock his ARB? Kaboom!!!

As their website implies, it is supposed to be able to put up with that.

Jeep don't use ARB's. Theirs is some low-pressure or vacuum actuated diff, IIRC.

I've got one broken E-locker given to me by GearMan. I know Inchworm and Rocklogic4x4 have seen a few too. And I agree, there are far fewer of them being beaten hard than ARB's.

They both seem to hold up well, I'm just a little wary of the E-lockers myself.

Apparently we've been over this before, Shane.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51369

So.... strength doesn't seem to be the primary issue. I think cost, personal preference, ease of installation, availability, etc. should play a bigger role in the choice of which to go with.

If you're a wheeler, then you've probably already got some source of air (or you should!). So if you want something easy to drop in, do the ARB. If you've got the means to modify the axle housing and/or are a die-hard Toy-only fan, then go for the E-locker....? They're both good, pick one!

dragr1 · 08-31-2004, 11:43 AM

I would say e-locker. Of course that is what I have so what else would I say.

rimpainter.com · 08-31-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthony1

I got e-locker in the rear ( converted to cable ) and ARB in the front.....

Converted to cable? Ooo, tell me more! My e-locker swap is still not hooked up

anthony1 · 08-31-2004, 03:32 PM

go to the bottom of the page...
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/Chassi...ents/index.htm
They had problem with fitment in the past but I'm local to them and worked out all the kinks.

oh, but I paid less than that...I think I paid about 120.

Shane · 08-31-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

You’ve got a new or used Toyota Electric Locker, but don’t have the extra $500 for the Toyota differential computer and electronics needed to operate it ---- why bother?

Oh, ya gotta love Downey, those f'ing liars. A factory ECU and the harness from axle to frame is less than the cost of their setup.

dragr1 · 08-31-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <96 Runner>

Converted to cable? Ooo, tell me more! My e-locker swap is still not hooked up

Try the Inchworm wiring kit and you won't need any of the factory wiring for the e-locker, not even the ecu. With it, you can turn it on anytime you want to, 4hi, 4lo, 2hi. I went that route and I'm very happy. I believe that 44Runner has the cable conversion and doesn't like it at all.

rimpainter.com · 08-31-2004, 04:30 PM

Thanks guys, I am just waiting to hear back from Jim on the verdict from the Toyota ECU. I just might need these options in the near future.

Shane · 08-31-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragr1

Try the Inchworm wiring kit and you won't need any of the factory wiring for the e-locker, not even the ecu. With it, you can turn it on anytime you want to, 4hi, 4lo, 2hi. I went that route and I'm very happy. I believe that 44Runner has the cable conversion and doesn't like it at all.

Nothing against Jim, but if you're gonna spend that much for the parts why not do it right and use the ECU instead. The ECU is much more intricate than those basic control circuits that people have come up with, and is designed to work reliably with the actuator. To eliminate the 4wd and speed interlocks you simply ground two of the pins. Since I didn't have the proper connectors under the dash, I simply removed the plastic connector and soldered some wires direct to the board.

You can see the wiring pigtails I made on my ECUs in this pic

Only pic I have at the moment of the wires on the board, ignore the circles they're related to some post I made about something.

anthony1 · 09-01-2004, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane

Oh, ya gotta love Downey, those f'ing liars. A factory ECU and the harness from axle to frame is less than the cost of their setup.

That quote has been around for a while.....they don't update the cat. very much.
I have to say though that since it's a mechanical thing, I'm the one doing the locking and unlocking. I hear people had trouble with unlocking it sometime with the elec. I never had that problem.
I'd modify it a little by putting a spring so it push against the shaft. This way I just loosen the cable and it will lock when it sync up. I don't have to constantly pushing it till it does. To unlock it, I just have to pull on the cable and drive zig zag for about 20 ft and it unlock.

Shane · 09-01-2004, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthony1

I hear people had trouble with unlocking it sometime with the elec.

That would be the psychological downside to having positive feedback from the electric locker. You can tell if it's bound in the locked position. The ARB locker will do that too, but since there's no indicator most people assume it's unlocked when they hear the "psst" sound.

rimpainter.com · 09-01-2004, 09:45 AM

So how would you guys rate the cable system install on a scale from 1 to 10?

1 being a headlight bulb change and 10 being a complete engine rebuild.

Just curious.

Shane · 09-01-2004, 09:54 AM

Installing it doesn't look like it would be very difficult. There's only like 2 bolts and a nut holding on the electric actuator. I'm sure you'll need to release tension on the shift rod detent "pill" if it has one, can't remember. Then remove the shift rod and it's cap. I'm not sure if you'll have to pull the diff in order to get to the shift rod, as I don't know if they somehow attach to it or replace it.

I'll give you $20 for your old actuator.

rimpainter.com · 09-01-2004, 09:57 AM

Shane-

I really don't think I am going to take this route, but I need to keep my options open.

I wish I didn't suck so bad at wiring. Definitely not my fortay!

Shane · 09-01-2004, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <96 Runner>

I wish I didn't suck so bad at wiring. Definitely not my fortay!

Hey, it took me a few tries before I got it right but they (I have two in my truck) work wonderfully now. Nothing like powering up the ECU and watching it immediately drive the locker all the way to one extreme and get stuck.

If you need some help with it start up a post and give us as much info on what you've done as you can.

anthony1 · 09-01-2004, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <96 Runner>

So how would you guys rate the cable system install on a scale from 1 to 10?

1 being a headlight bulb change and 10 being a complete engine rebuild.

Just curious.

It's more like 3-4. The hard part is to line up everything so the shaft gooes in/out smoothly after you've tighten everthing. I've spend probably about 30% of the time doing that.
oh, you don't need to take the diff out. When you take off the motor, there's a hole for the teeth that the motor use to move the shaft in/out. I used a flat head screw driver to move the shaft out pretty easily.

08-31-2004, 07:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
ErikB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 82	Both are decent quality, but the ARB is more bullet-proof, IMHO. __________________ - Erik '86 44runner, '97 T100, '97 4runner, '05 WR450 http://home.4x4wire.com/erik

08-31-2004, 07:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
WolfpackTLC Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 828	Lessee here... Both are spools when locked. Both are selectable. I THINK both are full carrier replacements, but I'm not sure.. I KNOW the ARB is. I vote ARB. Stronger and more reliable. (barring of course, the bad air line install.) __________________ 1995 Land Cruiser -ARB'd, OME'D, Slee'd, Warn'd, lifted, locked, dented, WHEELED.

08-31-2004, 07:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
shazaam Contributing Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,057	well if you ever decide to lock the front . then you will have ot go with ARB, if you want selectable. Makes sense just to go with ARB the first time,and then when your ready to lock the front, you'll be all set up. Just pop in the locker and plug the air line into the compressor. __________________ Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, and the lesson afterwards. <-- the artist formerly known as sdastg1

08-31-2004, 09:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
kyle_22r Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lacey, WA Posts: 3,992	why is the ARB stronger? i always hear problems with them blowing seals... if i go selectable on my truck, it'll be e-lockers front and rear __________________ 1998 tacoma, 3RZ-FE, 5 speed, 30x9.5R15 M/Ts past toys: 1984 4x2 1979 4x4 1991 4x4

08-31-2004, 10:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
anthony1 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: torrance, CA. Posts: 976	I got e-locker in the rear ( converted to cable ) and ARB in the front..... __________________ http://www.angelfire.com/ca6/954runner GOD's Country Best Seen In A 4 Runner. SAS front: lf,ARB,Ml4",Marlin arms, rear: cable elock,APlinks,OEmu860,35MT/R 5spd, 4:1. ..."But officer, that was not an illegal turn, it was just an undocumented turn."

08-31-2004, 10:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
ErikB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 82	ARB's are designed to be beaten on, E-lockers aren't. "Destructive laboratory testing is carried out to ensure the strength of the Air Locker exceeds that of the axles or other driveline components. Environmental test cells subject prototype models to high (120ºC) and low (-24ºC) temperature running conditions, as well as harsh wheelspin engagement for cycle durations of more than 20,000 actuations. Finally, field-testing is carried out in the harshest environments imaginable." http://www.arbusa.com/air_locker_design_engineering.htm I don't think Toyota goes to that effort to make sure their E-lockers will hold up to that kind of abuse, the kind of abuse we like to put them through. In fact, they make sure you can't abuse it by forcing you to engage it only in 4-lo and under 5mph (little or no wheel spin). I've also heard of several E-locker side-gear failures. I've got one broken one in my garage. Its not common, but it happens. ARB leaks are primarily due to installer error. Mine has never leaked. I know others who have been running them for many years without leaks. The newer seal carrier designs are also set up so that it is more difficult for the installer to screw up the install as well. __________________ - Erik '86 44runner, '97 T100, '97 4runner, '05 WR450 http://home.4x4wire.com/erik

08-31-2004, 10:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
Shane Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 3,000	Both can and have been broken. Arb can lose it's air seals, and will unlock if the line loses pressure. Electric can have actuator problems but will not unlock if the wires are broken and can be manually engaged/disengaged. Electric has position sensing switches that can give you positive feedback of it's status, ARB does not. ARB is a carrier replacement, Electric is a third member replacement which requires irreversible modifications to the axle housing. My vote goes to electric. __________________ "It's one great big dysfunctional family that now has to split up and spread dysfunctionality around the greater world," Bill Stainton on the breakup of the cast of "Almost Live!"

08-31-2004, 11:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
dragr1 Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Auburn, AL Posts: 3,627	I would say e-locker. Of course that is what I have so what else would I say. __________________ 1985 4Runner Dual e-lockers, dual cases, yada yada 1996 4runner, lifted, 2 lockers, 315 KM2's, IFS and more '00 Suburban 2500 4x4 '07 Tacoma Double Cab 4wd TRD '02 Lexus IS300 1991 Tiffin Allegro 31' Class A

08-31-2004, 03:32 PM	#14 (permalink)
anthony1 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: torrance, CA. Posts: 976	go to the bottom of the page... http://www.downeyoff-road.com/Chassi...ents/index.htm They had problem with fitment in the past but I'm local to them and worked out all the kinks. oh, but I paid less than that...I think I paid about 120. __________________ http://www.angelfire.com/ca6/954runner GOD's Country Best Seen In A 4 Runner. SAS front: lf,ARB,Ml4",Marlin arms, rear: cable elock,APlinks,OEmu860,35MT/R 5spd, 4:1. ..."But officer, that was not an illegal turn, it was just an undocumented turn." Last edited by anthony1; 08-31-2004 at 03:34 PM.

08-31-2004, 04:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
rimpainter.com Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,797	Thanks guys, I am just waiting to hear back from Jim on the verdict from the Toyota ECU. I just might need these options in the near future. __________________ www.rimpainter.com Get your O Gasket Mod Here! My SC'd 4Runner's Profile My YouTube vids

09-01-2004, 09:45 AM	#21 (permalink)
rimpainter.com Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,797	So how would you guys rate the cable system install on a scale from 1 to 10? 1 being a headlight bulb change and 10 being a complete engine rebuild. Just curious. __________________ www.rimpainter.com Get your O Gasket Mod Here! My SC'd 4Runner's Profile My YouTube vids

09-01-2004, 09:54 AM	#22 (permalink)
Shane Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 3,000	Installing it doesn't look like it would be very difficult. There's only like 2 bolts and a nut holding on the electric actuator. I'm sure you'll need to release tension on the shift rod detent "pill" if it has one, can't remember. Then remove the shift rod and it's cap. I'm not sure if you'll have to pull the diff in order to get to the shift rod, as I don't know if they somehow attach to it or replace it. I'll give you $20 for your old actuator. __________________ "It's one great big dysfunctional family that now has to split up and spread dysfunctionality around the greater world," Bill Stainton on the breakup of the cast of "Almost Live!"

09-01-2004, 09:57 AM	#23 (permalink)
rimpainter.com Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,797	Shane- I really don't think I am going to take this route, but I need to keep my options open. I wish I didn't suck so bad at wiring. Definitely not my fortay! __________________ www.rimpainter.com Get your O Gasket Mod Here! My SC'd 4Runner's Profile My YouTube vids

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