Super-cheap air tank idea....

chimmike · 01-09-2007, 09:22 AM

I was thinking today at work.........I saw the used fire extinguisher used as a co2 tank.

Why not use that galvanized steel piping from home depot, with the screw ends......you could line a few of them up underneath the truck with a splitter block into one line for refilling the tires. I know the capacity wouldnt' be that great, but you could fit in 200psi easily into each one, providing some good working pressure for refilling tires. Use an adjustable valve much like on tool compressors.......

good idea/bad idea?

This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Yotatech!

Robinhood150 · 01-09-2007, 10:33 AM

You saw a fire extinguisher used as a CO2 tank?

linuxrunner · 01-09-2007, 10:38 AM

you forgot scary...

even fire extinguishers have to be hydro tested to ensure that there are no week spots that might make it go kaboom. A pipe with screw on ends although likely designed and fully capable of holding compressed air, is not something i would look into... i would however like to know more about this fire extinguisher co2 tank.

bigredj87 · 01-09-2007, 10:47 AM

What about those cheap helium tanks from costco? they look like small propane cylinders. Or an old propane cylinder thats been throughly purged?

chimmike · 01-09-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxrunner

you forgot scary...

even fire extinguishers have to be hydro tested to ensure that there are no week spots that might make it go kaboom. A pipe with screw on ends although likely designed and fully capable of holding compressed air, is not something i would look into....

when you look at piping at home depot, they are rated for fluid PSI. Even PVC piping is capable of holding anywhere from 300psi on up to who knows what. Assuming you take proper care with the steel pipe and screw caps by using a resin glue or welding the caps on, those things will be nearly indestructable. Mounted properly, even on the floor of the rear area, they'll be no more dangerous than any other form of tank holding a compressed gas.

So I am not quite sure why this would be dangerous.

I'd actually like to find out just how capable a few of these would be, figure 3' lengths with 150-200psi per, what volume would be held and how effective it would be at reinflating.

Otherwise, I'd just go buy one of those refillable tanks from Home Depot or Sears or something and make a bolt in removable bracket.

Robinhood150 · 01-09-2007, 03:33 PM

I still want to know where you saw a fire extinguisher tank used for CO2.

chimmike · 01-09-2007, 03:38 PM

it's in the FAQ's....read 'em? lol.

Robinhood150 · 01-09-2007, 03:47 PM

You mean this one: http://yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=75748
The one that I wrote?

If so, that's definitely NOT CO2 and it's no where near the pressures used in CO2 tanks. No welding shop in the world would fill that tank with CO2. It would be a bomb waiting to go off.

linuxrunner · 01-09-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimmike

when you look at piping at home depot, they are rated for fluid PSI. Even PVC piping is capable of holding anywhere from 300psi on up to who knows what. Assuming you take proper care with the steel pipe and screw caps by using a resin glue or welding the caps on, those things will be nearly indestructable. Mounted properly, even on the floor of the rear area, they'll be no more dangerous than any other form of tank holding a compressed gas.

So I am not quite sure why this would be dangerous.

I'd actually like to find out just how capable a few of these would be, figure 3' lengths with 150-200psi per, what volume would be held and how effective it would be at reinflating.

Otherwise, I'd just go buy one of those refillable tanks from Home Depot or Sears or something and make a bolt in removable bracket.

What i am saying is that fill plants cannot fill a cylinder that is not hydro tested so it will be difficult to fill it with co2, now if he is just going to fill with compressed air, than he could fill it himself.

mikehinthehouse · 01-09-2007, 05:02 PM

chimike.. Ive seen some tube bumpers before with air nipples for inflating and deflating tires... I think it would work... now keep in mind that is down here n the south where there are no rocks to crawl on...but i guess that there are none in fla either! how about that game last night... ??

chimmike · 01-09-2007, 05:11 PM

yah I would definitely not be using co2, I'd just be using compressed air.

SoiledGreen98 · 01-09-2007, 05:37 PM

I think its a good idea. You can tuck them up next to the body and they'd be completely out of the way. In fact, that's a great idea and i think I'll start working on that too. I'd weld the caps on though.

glenyoshida · 01-09-2007, 05:39 PM

Interesting idea. I crunched a few numbers and it doesn't look like you would end up saving much money if any in the long run. I think CO2 or compressors are probably going to be your best bet. A 20oz cylinder is going to hold enough to fill about two 31x10.5r15 tires if you don't air down past say 13psi. Each one of your tires holds about 6.4 cu ft of air at 30 psi.

I'm not sure what size pipe you are taking about but if you tried a 2inch diameter pipe 5 feet long it would need to be brought to 880 psi to hold the same amount of air as one tire. If you doubled the volume of the pipe then you would need half that or 440 psi. Paintball markers use the 20z tanks and can be found for about 22 bucks including shipping. If you are thinking about just putting the CO2 in the pipe then make sure you put in a safety valve or burst disk. If you don't the CO2 can reach a sick level of pressure and rupture the tank. On a 100 degree day it's not uncommon to have a full CO2 tank exceed 1400 psi. The inside of a car can easily reach 120 degrees which would put the tank at 1900 psi. To reference the force of quadruple digit pressures, dry ice bombs usually rupture 2 liter bottles at about 150 - 300 psi depending on the bottle mfg.

There's always the $30 portable air compressor. It takes patience but it's cheap and safe. Heck you could buy two compressors for the same price it would take fill up all four tires using CO2. You also don?t have to refill the tanks and it's not like you can run out of compressor.

By the way this thread got me thinking about how much weight filling tires this size with CO2 would add and it turns out it?s only about 2 oz per tire.

Smiling_Jim · 01-09-2007, 05:42 PM

trying to use pipe for air fills.

You can get a 10 lbs CO2 for $100-$140.

A reg for $30. Hose and nozzle for $15.

My 10 lbs tank fills my 36" IROKS 3 times before a refill.

Plus if you are going on an expedition trip, you can carry air tools for repairing stuff.

tc · 01-09-2007, 07:41 PM

CO2 is compressed to liquid to dramatically increase the storage capacity, but increases the pressure, and the severity of anything going wrong.

Compressed air is quite a bit safer, I don't think the PVC pipe storage tanks would be a problem, but I would go with like 4", not smaller. Tires take A TON of air to fill.

My bumper is sealed as an air tank, and doesn't even fill one tire.

slosurfer · 01-09-2007, 07:49 PM

I have seen fire extinguishers used as co2 bottles. They are co2 fire extinguishers. Generally they are the old steel ones and you can get them at fire extinguisher stores; they sometimes have them laying around. Of course you have to get them tested before you get them filled, but I have seen them and seen writeups for them on the web. I personally don't think they are worth it because they are the really heavy steel ones. they weigh almost twice as much as the aluminum ones.

slosurfer · 01-09-2007, 07:52 PM

found this in our tech section:
http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=75329

reggie 00 · 01-09-2007, 08:45 PM

http://www.offroadairstore.com/servl...3ASPORT+Series

They got decent enough prices here. also they have the parts and pieces to make your own.

linuxrunner · 01-09-2007, 09:23 PM

With compressed air the pipe idea would work, but you would need lots of pipe to fill all four tires... Is there any way to get air compressors that are belt driven for late 80's Toyota trucks/4runners?

Smiling_Jim · 01-09-2007, 09:59 PM

His Air Bumper does not fill ONE tire.

When CO2 converts from liguid to gas you get a HUGE efficiency advantage.

My CO2 tank fills 12 36" IROKS !!!

Don't waste your time and $$ with pipe air tanks...

bamachem · 01-10-2007, 04:53 AM

i can't believe what i'm reading.

would it "work" - yes, somewhat.

is it safe? - hell no. also, where, oh where are you going to get 200 PSIG to fill them in the first place? not only that, but IF they held up to the fill, they would eventually fatigue and fail. probably about the time you landed one of them on a rock. at that point, you have earth, and immovable object below, essentially a 200-PSIG pipe bomb, then your butt on top of it. guess which one loses - earth or your butt? sounds fun, doesn't it.

is it cheap - not even close.

you'll have to use so much pipe & fittings and then your time to put it all together that you could just buy a portable compressor several times over.

AH64ID · 01-10-2007, 05:07 AM

Personally I am not sold on the CO2 setup, sure it can be nice, but its bulky.. has to be stored upright, and needs to be refilled. IMO a decent set of airtanks and elec compressor will do the job.

On my new truck i will be getting a ViAir 480 compressor, and reisntalling my 2 2.5 gal tanks. With the size tire I am running I will be able to fill 2.5 tires before I am filling on the pump alone.

All the tanks do is save time, and provide bulk air if you need to reseat a bead.

One of the guys on the ttora board has PVC pipe running the the length of his cab above the sliders and below the cab, with both sides he has about 2.5 gals of storage. IMO hiding some storage under the bed/body and a compressor under the hood is more user freindly than a CO2 tank...

AH64ID · 01-10-2007, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamachem

you'll have to use so much pipe & fittings and then your time to put it all together that you could just buy a portable compressor several times over.

I didnt realize he wasnt talking about a compressor too... yeah you would not be able to have enough air to do anything worthwhile...

tc · 01-10-2007, 11:37 AM

The bumper itself would be a lot better, but the way I have it setup, the whole thing works off the ARB pressure switch - so the whole system is at like 85 psi.

Eventually, i will have fender hoops that tie the bumper to the sliders, and then I'll have significant air storage. At the same time, I'll also replumb the lockers with a regulator and have the stored air at higher pressure.

salad_man · 01-10-2007, 02:05 PM

A friend and I "MorphiasX" on this board, are putting our on board air system together using two aluminum fire extingusher tanks and a compressor. We have had good results so far with the tanks, got them up to and to hold about 120 PSI of air. We are now just looking for the compressors that we want/like to keep them filled for us. If anyone is interested I can see about getting some tanks for other people, although I am not sure, pm me if you are.

01-09-2007, 10:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Robinhood150 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wandering around Phoenix Posts: 6,043	You saw a fire extinguisher used as a CO2 tank? __________________ Steve. '93 4Runner V6 Auto 4x4 Robinhood's Lair. \|\| Gettin' Off 4wd Club member Lots for sale:5.29 ARB IFS third member... Click Sierra Club policy: [A reason to close trails] ...Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat... Lesson...Stay on the TRAIL!

01-09-2007, 10:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
bigredj87 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 64	What about those cheap helium tanks from costco? they look like small propane cylinders. Or an old propane cylinder thats been throughly purged? __________________ -John 1987 4-runner Mods -nothing yet -want to put custom tube bumpers -Designing a cheap soft-top

01-09-2007, 03:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Robinhood150 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wandering around Phoenix Posts: 6,043	I still want to know where you saw a fire extinguisher tank used for CO2. __________________ Steve. '93 4Runner V6 Auto 4x4 Robinhood's Lair. \|\| Gettin' Off 4wd Club member Lots for sale:5.29 ARB IFS third member... Click Sierra Club policy: [A reason to close trails] ...Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat... Lesson...Stay on the TRAIL!

01-09-2007, 03:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
chimmike Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SRQ, FL Posts: 1,529	it's in the FAQ's....read 'em? lol. __________________ '03 350z Turbocharged (totalled :( ) '04 Honda Accord LX V6 (first bone stock car I've owned in a while) 94 4runner SR5 4x4, 31x10.5's, SAS, Warn M8000 winch, Allpro bumper, Summit (K&N FIPK in different wrapping) CAI, flowmaster muff, 5.29's FOR SALE! '07 Harley-Davidson XL1200c, rush slip-ons

01-09-2007, 03:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
Robinhood150 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wandering around Phoenix Posts: 6,043	You mean this one: http://yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=75748 The one that I wrote? If so, that's definitely NOT CO2 and it's no where near the pressures used in CO2 tanks. No welding shop in the world would fill that tank with CO2. It would be a bomb waiting to go off. __________________ Steve. '93 4Runner V6 Auto 4x4 Robinhood's Lair. \|\| Gettin' Off 4wd Club member Lots for sale:5.29 ARB IFS third member... Click Sierra Club policy: [A reason to close trails] ...Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat... Lesson...Stay on the TRAIL!

01-09-2007, 05:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
mikehinthehouse Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 193	chimike.. Ive seen some tube bumpers before with air nipples for inflating and deflating tires... I think it would work... now keep in mind that is down here n the south where there are no rocks to crawl on...but i guess that there are none in fla either! how about that game last night... ?? __________________ MikeHouse _____________________________________________ 2000 Black SR5 3.4L Grey Leather 20% tint, Optima Blue Top, AVS in-channel vent visors, AVS Bugsheild II, Hunter Stainless Bull Bar, Clear Corners with Amber LED's , Indiglo guages Tundra brakes upgrade, True-Flow, Sport hood

01-09-2007, 05:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
chimmike Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SRQ, FL Posts: 1,529	yah I would definitely not be using co2, I'd just be using compressed air. __________________ '03 350z Turbocharged (totalled :( ) '04 Honda Accord LX V6 (first bone stock car I've owned in a while) 94 4runner SR5 4x4, 31x10.5's, SAS, Warn M8000 winch, Allpro bumper, Summit (K&N FIPK in different wrapping) CAI, flowmaster muff, 5.29's FOR SALE! '07 Harley-Davidson XL1200c, rush slip-ons

01-09-2007, 05:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
glenyoshida Contributing Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 236	Galvanized pipe for air tank Interesting idea. I crunched a few numbers and it doesn't look like you would end up saving much money if any in the long run. I think CO2 or compressors are probably going to be your best bet. A 20oz cylinder is going to hold enough to fill about two 31x10.5r15 tires if you don't air down past say 13psi. Each one of your tires holds about 6.4 cu ft of air at 30 psi. I'm not sure what size pipe you are taking about but if you tried a 2inch diameter pipe 5 feet long it would need to be brought to 880 psi to hold the same amount of air as one tire. If you doubled the volume of the pipe then you would need half that or 440 psi. Paintball markers use the 20z tanks and can be found for about 22 bucks including shipping. If you are thinking about just putting the CO2 in the pipe then make sure you put in a safety valve or burst disk. If you don't the CO2 can reach a sick level of pressure and rupture the tank. On a 100 degree day it's not uncommon to have a full CO2 tank exceed 1400 psi. The inside of a car can easily reach 120 degrees which would put the tank at 1900 psi. To reference the force of quadruple digit pressures, dry ice bombs usually rupture 2 liter bottles at about 150 - 300 psi depending on the bottle mfg. There's always the $30 portable air compressor. It takes patience but it's cheap and safe. Heck you could buy two compressors for the same price it would take fill up all four tires using CO2. You also don?t have to refill the tanks and it's not like you can run out of compressor. By the way this thread got me thinking about how much weight filling tires this size with CO2 would add and it turns out it?s only about 2 oz per tire. __________________ - Glen 2001 4Runner SR5 Auto - Armorology Front Bumper, Warn M8000 w/hidden solenoid - Wireless remote, 1/2" Technora winch line & Safety Thimble - Toytec coilovers - OME 891s w/Bilsteins - Yokohama Geolander MT+ 305/70R16 - Stubbs HD-SKO Sliders - Engel 15 Freezer - Toytec Rear LCA skids - Budbuilt front and belly skids - Low profile cargo - Laptop mount - Thule aluminum roof basket - Viper 5 channel remote start two way paging model # 5900 - Cobra 8WSXTII CB Radio - Stainless rear bumper Last edited by glenyoshida; 01-31-2007 at 01:53 AM.

01-09-2007, 05:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
Smiling_Jim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canyon Lake, CA Posts: 178	Yer gonna waste time and $$... trying to use pipe for air fills. You can get a 10 lbs CO2 for $100-$140. A reg for $30. Hose and nozzle for $15. My 10 lbs tank fills my 36" IROKS 3 times before a refill. Plus if you are going on an expedition trip, you can carry air tools for repairing stuff. __________________ A Hard Corps 89 Flat Bed truck. Dual Detroits, 5.29 Yukons with Longfields, 5.0 Inchworm case and 36 IROKS. Street legal 80 miles per hour cruise, roll up windows, stereo and AC. Who needs a Jeep? Not this old man!

01-09-2007, 07:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	CO2 is compressed to liquid to dramatically increase the storage capacity, but increases the pressure, and the severity of anything going wrong. Compressed air is quite a bit safer, I don't think the PVC pipe storage tanks would be a problem, but I would go with like 4", not smaller. Tires take A TON of air to fill. My bumper is sealed as an air tank, and doesn't even fill one tire. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

01-09-2007, 07:49 PM	#16 (permalink)
slosurfer Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Osos, CA (we can't agree on crap!) Posts: 2,155	I have seen fire extinguishers used as co2 bottles. They are co2 fire extinguishers. Generally they are the old steel ones and you can get them at fire extinguisher stores; they sometimes have them laying around. Of course you have to get them tested before you get them filled, but I have seen them and seen writeups for them on the web. I personally don't think they are worth it because they are the really heavy steel ones. they weigh almost twice as much as the aluminum ones. __________________ Chris 7th Annual Pismo Jamboree: Sept. 25-27, 2009 '93 4runner SR5 3.0 Auto 4WD '07 Tacoma Dcab 4x4 TRD offroad '89 F250 4x4 w/utility bed M416 1/4 ton military trailer "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan Semper Fi SLO 4wheelers

01-09-2007, 07:52 PM	#17 (permalink)
slosurfer Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Osos, CA (we can't agree on crap!) Posts: 2,155	found this in our tech section: http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=75329 __________________ Chris 7th Annual Pismo Jamboree: Sept. 25-27, 2009 '93 4runner SR5 3.0 Auto 4WD '07 Tacoma Dcab 4x4 TRD offroad '89 F250 4x4 w/utility bed M416 1/4 ton military trailer "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan Semper Fi SLO 4wheelers

01-09-2007, 09:59 PM	#20 (permalink)
Smiling_Jim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canyon Lake, CA Posts: 178	Read TCs post again... His Air Bumper does not fill ONE tire. When CO2 converts from liguid to gas you get a HUGE efficiency advantage. My CO2 tank fills 12 36" IROKS !!! Don't waste your time and $$ with pipe air tanks... __________________ A Hard Corps 89 Flat Bed truck. Dual Detroits, 5.29 Yukons with Longfields, 5.0 Inchworm case and 36 IROKS. Street legal 80 miles per hour cruise, roll up windows, stereo and AC. Who needs a Jeep? Not this old man!

01-10-2007, 04:53 AM	#21 (permalink)
bamachem Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 0	i can't believe what i'm reading. would it "work" - yes, somewhat. is it safe? - hell no. also, where, oh where are you going to get 200 PSIG to fill them in the first place? not only that, but IF they held up to the fill, they would eventually fatigue and fail. probably about the time you landed one of them on a rock. at that point, you have earth, and immovable object below, essentially a 200-PSIG pipe bomb, then your butt on top of it. guess which one loses - earth or your butt? sounds fun, doesn't it. is it cheap - not even close. you'll have to use so much pipe & fittings and then your time to put it all together that you could just buy a portable compressor several times over. Last edited by bamachem; 01-10-2007 at 04:56 AM.

01-10-2007, 05:07 AM	#22 (permalink)
AH64ID Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,637	Personally I am not sold on the CO2 setup, sure it can be nice, but its bulky.. has to be stored upright, and needs to be refilled. IMO a decent set of airtanks and elec compressor will do the job. On my new truck i will be getting a ViAir 480 compressor, and reisntalling my 2 2.5 gal tanks. With the size tire I am running I will be able to fill 2.5 tires before I am filling on the pump alone. All the tanks do is save time, and provide bulk air if you need to reseat a bead. One of the guys on the ttora board has PVC pipe running the the length of his cab above the sliders and below the cab, with both sides he has about 2.5 gals of storage. IMO hiding some storage under the bed/body and a compressor under the hood is more user freindly than a CO2 tank... __________________ -John '05 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 SLT 5.9 Cummins QC LB NV5600 2003 SR5 4Runner, V6 4WD. 1" cornfed lift Previous Toyota's '92 Red Truck NALA Speed doesn't kill, its the sudden stop that hurts.

01-10-2007, 11:37 AM	#24 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	The bumper itself would be a lot better, but the way I have it setup, the whole thing works off the ARB pressure switch - so the whole system is at like 85 psi. Eventually, i will have fender hoops that tie the bumper to the sliders, and then I'll have significant air storage. At the same time, I'll also replumb the lockers with a regulator and have the stored air at higher pressure. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

01-10-2007, 02:05 PM	#25 (permalink)
salad_man Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: So Cal Posts: 35	A friend and I "MorphiasX" on this board, are putting our on board air system together using two aluminum fire extingusher tanks and a compressor. We have had good results so far with the tanks, got them up to and to hold about 120 PSI of air. We are now just looking for the compressors that we want/like to keep them filled for us. If anyone is interested I can see about getting some tanks for other people, although I am not sure, pm me if you are.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Good idea? Bad idea? Cheap Blower intake.	YotaTruck1986	95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners	29	01-16-2008 08:24 PM
project super cheap	skullver	Pre 84 Trucks	16	04-22-2007 09:40 PM
Cheap mods: Air tank (and cargo area carpet removal) < $30	rimpainter.com	General Vehicle Related Topics (Non Year Related)	8	07-12-2006 03:37 PM
Idea for increasing range: Aux Fuel Tank	bamachem	95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners	6	04-25-2005 11:28 AM