MNBOY

Gibby,
I don't want to get in the middle of this 'fun to watch' argument, but I do have a couple things to say, my opinion only. It may help some people to realize that rock crawling has now become a sport, and part of that sport is using highly modified, usually expensive rigs to do trails or trail sections that are too hard for normal rigs. That leaves a lot to interpretation, but covers the basics. This type of rock crawling has very little to do with off-roading, and is becoming a spectator sport. I agree with you that most people are not thinking extreme enough when they think of rock crawling, as they are probably thinking of off roading including trails sections involving rocks. If this makes sense, and the things you are posting in this thread are about the sport of rock crawling, I agree with your points. If you are also including off roading and trail riding, I dont. If we want to get into a discussion about appropriate rigs and gear for trail riding and off roading, we should start another thread, because I don't think some of the things you've mentioned apply to that, but I'm guessing you didn't mean for them to apply to trail rigs.

44Runner

Its a 99.

Yes, I decided a LONG time ago that IFS wasn't for me...

upndair

You got most of my point right on the money - a lot of our discussion would not even have happened if we all had the same definitions. I don't agree that rockcrawling is a spectator sport only. My rig is fully built for rock crawling and I like people to watch, but I do 90% trail runs. This dummy is so overbuilt for the trails I run it's stupid, but half the fun is building anyway.

The start of this topic was about building a good rock crawler, not a good trail rig. My guess is (and I think most agree) is that he was really asking about building a good trail rig in which case a 2nd gen suspension can do just fine. A whomever talked about his friends doing the Rubicon were actually on a trail run on rocks vs a rockcrawling event.

However, if we all agreed, we'd all be driving the same rigs, we wouldn't have the Jeep vs Toyota thing and this discussion would have been 3 posts long.

upndair

Very nice rig, but I was thinking of more along the lines of a built 3rd gen with more of the original suspension.

Mine, like your's is hardly a 2nd gen. Mine is more of a 1st gen under a 2nd gen.

That is the nicest ROCKCRAWLING 3rd gen I've seen so far!

MNBOY

I didn't mean that rock crawling is only a spectator sport, I meant it is turning into a spectator sport. Just saw the Superwinch rock crawling competition on TV the other night, and that's what made me think of it. 20 years ago when I started off roading I never would have believed you would see it on TV someday.
BTW I love the photo http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/DSCF0018.jpg
Articulation my butt, it makes it look like the tire isn't even connected.

upndair

HAHAHA, that's funny

Tomh4x4

WOW well I know I can't do anything compared to a solid axle I was just wondering how I could get the most out of my ifs. What I have done is nothing hardcore at all but there were some places that certain things would help like a locker and a little more flexibility. Thanks for the imput though.
Tom

MNBOY

I guess we got away from your questions a bit. My two cents sounds a lot like others on this thread. Springs for the back is a great start, and the bull bar and winch are also great additions. As someone else mentioned you'll want to get the bigger torsion bars for the ARB and winch. The locker will make a night and day difference for what your truck can handle. Depending on how wide the 33s are you may not need to regear for moderate trail running, and that would save some $$. If you find in 4 low that the truck is struggling you can either regear or do some mods to the motor to give it some more pep. In my opinion you would have a pretty capable trail rig at this point, then beat the hell out of it on a LOT of trails and see what breaks or what you don't like. There will always be time to dump more money into your truck.

upndair

Don't get me wrong, you can do lots with an IFS. The primary limitation is articulation. Yes, there are a few downfalls beside the articulation, but they're minor in comparison.

If you want to get your IFS more trail capable, lower gears, MT tires, not AT tires, rear locker and LSD or selectable locker in the front.

You'll do almost everything, for the rest, there's a winch!

scott.475

Tom,

I am running 4" IFS susp (bought cheap ), 3" body, and 35 inch tires on my truck. I also have a detroit locker rear and truetrac front. I can't talk about 4-runner suspension, because I am not at all familiar with them. I will say this, however, I grew up in the mountains of western Colorado. We did a lot of hunting, camping and 4-wheeling there. My current rig has been able to do things I never could have dreemed of as a kid, and it will certainly get me everywhere I need to go. As yet, even with the 3" body lift, I have never felt too tippy, but the 4-runner is, of course, going to have more weight up high. Ask Gibby, I have been able to hold my own chasing him down trails, but I know what my limits are and what my pain threshold is (which is well below what Gibby wants it to be! ). I am not now a "crawler", but at this pint that is not my goal. When I decide I just want to do rocks I'll probably buy a cheap little 'Zuke so I can sit it down low between really wide axles or something. But I am telling you, my current set up has done very well and I have a lot of fun in it. Ultimately, we can't really tell you what you want. Do you really want to crawl rocks? Then save your money and SAS your rig. If you jsut want to be able to do really well on most any trail, your IFS should do fine. Like others have said, jsut know your limitiations.

Another thing you might want to consider is going with an winch bumper from someone like Badlands, where they can build the body lift right into the bumper from the outside. I currently find myself in this quandry, since the horizontal guards on my ARB run driectly in front of my headlamp filaments, making driving at night a real nightmare. My quandry...pay to have the ARB lifted to match the bodylift, or wait until the end of next year when I can hopefully do my SAS with 6" susp lift and pull out my bodylift all together, then do some fender trimming...hmmm...

upndair

The 4Runner front suspension is identical, your truck has rear leaves vs a 4link coil system. The leaf system is a little stiffer but superior :o)

Whaddya mean your well below my pain threshould??????

descendents

hey all.. i was just reading and upndair wanted to see something on a ramp score of 750+ with ifs on 4runner... well here it is

http://www.4x4wire.com/cgi-bin/ultim...13;t=017168;p=

the video is in the trail pictures section... its titled video of me and rocker knocker or somethign to that effect

kelly

upndair

755 just barely beats it :o)

That was a 2000 4runner, a better IFS than the 2nd gen that was in question. I'm going to see what he did to get that far. That's a fantastic score for any IFS rig!

descendents

keep in mind that his was the 4th best IFS score.. that means that theres those with higher

kelly

4x4runner

I was just going over this thread and realized that Tom is from the Florida panhandle (right by where I used to live). Kinda wondering where he's gonna do any rock crawling at all. All I did there was mud and sand.

Tomh4x4

Well I basically had a mis print and couldnt change it so what I really wanted was a good trail truck. But I have found some rock hills that I have been messing around with. Other than that it is basically mud and sand. I'm trying to find something new though and I did.
Tom

4x4runner

I really had no problems with 33's in the sandpits (behind the track), out on the archery range in FWB, or in the bogs behind walmart.
If it were me, I'd do the downey or OME lift and use 33x12.5 mudders, which should give enough float in the sand and mud. Then invest in some power (headers, exhaust, intake).
That should get you through most anything out on the redneck riviera.

upndair

If ya like that, then you'll enjoy this too :o)
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers...-24-03/009.JPG
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers...-24-03/010.JPG
The little guy's my son, he loves going bumpy-bumpy, even though he just turned 2!

MNBOY

Just makes me want to get back out to WA all that much worse and go break some stuff on the trails.

Operation4Skinner1.5

Rock crawling is just an expensive way to throw away a nice vehicle.