Question for all 1st Gen 4runners running 35's

rhale · 08-10-2008, 08:06 PM

I apologize in advance if this has been answered, i searched threads but it was all mixed years. i have a 89 runner with 4"sus/3"BL with 35" BFG's. after looking at a few other 1st gen runners mine seems to have alot (12") of space b/w the top of tire and fender. this is my first toyota, so i didn't know if that was about right for that much lift. my previous jeep(don't hold it against me) had a 6" long arm suspension lift and not near as much space b/w tire and fender. i also did not install this lift so i dont know if there is any shackle lift in the back, etc.

colsoncj · 08-10-2008, 08:39 PM

it looks like you may have a little fender trimming in the front. in the back, from what i can see, you have some lift springs with a shackle angle that worries me, and some kind of link addition that is throwing me for a loop. could you take some pics of the front, around the control arms, and the back highlighting the link arm, and the rear shackle?

colsoncj · 08-10-2008, 08:42 PM

all in all though, a really clean, good lookin rig!

hooligan750 · 08-10-2008, 08:46 PM

Your profile states you have 4" suspension with a 3" body thats 7" above stock. your jeep was only 6" above stock the big difference is between stock height of the jeep vs. stock height of the 4 runner

Jeenyus04 · 08-10-2008, 09:04 PM

I don't see any trimming and I can't see the shackles.. but it does look a little big, maybe it's a 6 and 3? That is really clean too! you even got the sun roof. lol

wrnchplr · 08-10-2008, 09:10 PM

Hey St. Dixe that is a sweet runner. It looks like some trimming was done, I know my 85 has about that much room. you are also going to see lots of extra room with the body lift. are the shocks hooked to the traction bar??

rhale · 08-10-2008, 09:18 PM

colsoncj, here are the pics that i have. i just put on the bushwacker flares to pass the state inspection, so no fender trimming. the lift is a procomp lift and there are traction bars in the rear with dual shocks on the side and one still on the axle. the front has a drop bracket and new knuckles that came with the lift. my camera is messed up so i'll try to get pics of the rear shackles tommorow!

colsoncj · 08-10-2008, 10:22 PM

Alright... I see whats up now!

You have the typical 4" procomp bracket lift, with the stage 2 (or whatever its called) brace arms that keep the front suspension from folding back under forceful climbs. (I actually ran the same kit!)

It also looks like you're torsion bars have been cranked to give you about another 1.5 to 2" of lift. You can see this from the extra angle on the front control arms. (words of advice, your CVs probably wont like this, everything else on them will be alright, relative speaking of course). Heres a pic of the same lift on my rig, with zero cranking of the torsion bars:

You should be able to still see the difference in the control arm angle. Between that, and the 4" bracket, you'll net 5.5" to 6" by my guessing from the pics. Add your quoted 3" BL and you've got between 8.5 and 9" of lift (again from my estimates!)

on the rear, it looks like you've got lift blocks, inferring from the estimated difference between the axle tube and spring in the pic. I'm going to say around 3 to 3.5". they look like factory springs, in case you're curious. From the first pics, it looks like you're shackle is almost straight up and down. if so, and given an equal front to rear ride height, that would be around a 2.5" shackle lift.

Heres my thoughts... one, I'm still not so sure about the trac bar setup. I know with lift blocks and factory springs, I had some HORRIBLE axle wrap, so I'd bet those were installed to fix a similar issue. I went to chevy springs and got about 4-4.5" of lift and got rid of the axle wrap. I also gained some better ride quality, but in turn lost a little departure angle. take that plus a small lift block and you'd have a good shackle angle, good ride and good flex... relatively speaking. (this advice all stemming from my worries that your shackle angle really is, straight up and down).

on the front... I'd run the 35"s and check you're clearance. if possible I'd tone down the t-bars a little to be easier on your CVs.

From experience wheeling a IFS truck on 37"s, carry CVs, the front passenger side inner axle shaft, and idler arms. Thankfully I never really broke a CV, but I did break SEVERAL passenger inner axle shafts and a couple idler arms.

Hope all this helps.

dirtoyboy · 08-11-2008, 07:53 AM

Lose that body lift and it'll sit a lot better!

rhale · 08-11-2008, 10:34 AM

cory thanks for all the input, it helps to know someone else who has run a similar set up. i thought of removing the body lift or cutting it in half, but wasn't sure if i could still fit the 35's. i will be sure to take some pics of the rear when possible and post them, hopefully this afternoon or first thing tomorrow. have you had issues with breaking tie rod ends on yours? i know with my chevy2500HD that has a 6" lift when i went to moab that was the 1st thing to go!

rhale · 08-11-2008, 12:37 PM

dirtoyboy, that was my think exactly. it looks a little too high and top heavy right now

Al's Chop Shop · 08-11-2008, 02:08 PM

lose the shocks on the ladder bars. thats pavement queen stuff...

Al

colsoncj · 08-11-2008, 07:32 PM

never really had too much of a problem with the tie rods... mainly just the stuff i listed.

im interested to look at your rear setup... and i'd leave one of the links and shocks on it to prevent axle wrap... like i said, i had a huge problem with that.

best way to determine clearance is wheel it. take it out, flex it as best you can and figure out how much body lift you can remove!

Al's Chop Shop · 08-13-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colsoncj

i'd leave one of the links and shocks on it to prevent axle wrap... like i said, i had a huge problem with that.

uh, the ladder bars would eliminate any axle wrap. why in the world would you need a shock on it?

Al

rhale · 08-13-2008, 06:51 PM

i was afraid of catching the shock on rock & such and tearing them off, so removing them doesn't hurt my feelings at all. i believe that the lift was put on 6-7 years ago and those are the original shocks that came with it, some of the seals are leaking so i was going to replace all 8 shocks, but buying 4 really good shock instead of 8 decent ones sounds better on my wallet!

colsoncj · 08-13-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al's Chop Shop

uh, the ladder bars would eliminate any axle wrap. why in the world would you need a shock on it?

Al

I would agree... however I didnt see any harm in leaving them on there, so instead of created additional work, I'd probably just leave them on there... but thats me. However, if you think you'll catch them on obstacles, or if the seals are shot, or if ya had any reason to pull them, I'd yank them off in a heartbeat!

rhale · 08-15-2008, 02:42 PM

OK, so i got the runner back from the shop and measured and took pics of the rear. the shackle length is 9 1/2 long (8 1/2 center to center of bolts), the riser blocks are 3" and body lift blocks 3". do you or anyone else know the original shackle lenght? i'm guessing that original shackles are around 6" so that make a total of 3+3+approximately 2" of shackle = 8" lift?

rhale · 08-15-2008, 02:48 PM

sorry forgot the pics

rhale · 08-15-2008, 04:28 PM

so, i went to the local junk yard and got a set of stock 4runner shackles, 3 1/2". that means i started with 3"susp/3"body/5"shackle lift for a total of 11" of lift. no wonder i couldn't pass inspection. the frame was 4" above what utah allows for height!!

08-10-2008, 08:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	Question for all 1st Gen 4runners running 35's I apologize in advance if this has been answered, i searched threads but it was all mixed years. i have a 89 runner with 4"sus/3"BL with 35" BFG's. after looking at a few other 1st gen runners mine seems to have alot (12") of space b/w the top of tire and fender. this is my first toyota, so i didn't know if that was about right for that much lift. my previous jeep(don't hold it against me) had a 6" long arm suspension lift and not near as much space b/w tire and fender. i also did not install this lift so i dont know if there is any shackle lift in the back, etc. Attached Thumbnails

08-10-2008, 08:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
colsoncj Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monett, MO (Springfield) Posts: 2,489	it looks like you may have a little fender trimming in the front. in the back, from what i can see, you have some lift springs with a shackle angle that worries me, and some kind of link addition that is throwing me for a loop. could you take some pics of the front, around the control arms, and the back highlighting the link arm, and the rear shackle? __________________ Cory Eastern OK, Western/Northern AR, Southeastern KS, or Southern MO area: OZARKS 4ROC Click Here 04 Dodge 2500 Cummins - DD/Tow Rig 02 Z06 Corvette - Weekender 94 FZJ80 - Wheelin Rig. Currently on 33"s, plan to go 35"s. 72 Buick GS - i.e. the project that will never get done.

08-10-2008, 08:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
colsoncj Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monett, MO (Springfield) Posts: 2,489	all in all though, a really clean, good lookin rig! __________________ Cory Eastern OK, Western/Northern AR, Southeastern KS, or Southern MO area: OZARKS 4ROC Click Here 04 Dodge 2500 Cummins - DD/Tow Rig 02 Z06 Corvette - Weekender 94 FZJ80 - Wheelin Rig. Currently on 33"s, plan to go 35"s. 72 Buick GS - i.e. the project that will never get done.

08-10-2008, 09:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jeenyus04 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: washington Posts: 159	I don't see any trimming and I can't see the shackles.. but it does look a little big, maybe it's a 6 and 3? That is really clean too! you even got the sun roof. lol __________________ 85 reg cab s/b, rebuilt 22r, .040 over bore, engnbldr's crawler cam, no cat w/ flo-pro (was on it). tg 5 inch lift. 35 baja claws bright green paint, sliders, custom front bumper, miller rear locker --project-- 02 dodge extended cab s/b, black sport, 24 vavle cummins, 35's, 4 inch exhaust, edge ez

08-10-2008, 09:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
wrnchplr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Small town, CO. Posts: 159	Hey St. Dixe that is a sweet runner. It looks like some trimming was done, I know my 85 has about that much room. you are also going to see lots of extra room with the body lift. are the shocks hooked to the traction bar?? __________________ It's a yota and it has some tires.

08-10-2008, 08:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
hooligan750 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: So Cal Posts: 16	Your profile states you have 4" suspension with a 3" body thats 7" above stock. your jeep was only 6" above stock the big difference is between stock height of the jeep vs. stock height of the 4 runner

08-10-2008, 09:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	colsoncj, here are the pics that i have. i just put on the bushwacker flares to pass the state inspection, so no fender trimming. the lift is a procomp lift and there are traction bars in the rear with dual shocks on the side and one still on the axle. the front has a drop bracket and new knuckles that came with the lift. my camera is messed up so i'll try to get pics of the rear shackles tommorow! Attached Thumbnails

08-10-2008, 10:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
colsoncj Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monett, MO (Springfield) Posts: 2,489	Alright... I see whats up now! You have the typical 4" procomp bracket lift, with the stage 2 (or whatever its called) brace arms that keep the front suspension from folding back under forceful climbs. (I actually ran the same kit!) It also looks like you're torsion bars have been cranked to give you about another 1.5 to 2" of lift. You can see this from the extra angle on the front control arms. (words of advice, your CVs probably wont like this, everything else on them will be alright, relative speaking of course). Heres a pic of the same lift on my rig, with zero cranking of the torsion bars: You should be able to still see the difference in the control arm angle. Between that, and the 4" bracket, you'll net 5.5" to 6" by my guessing from the pics. Add your quoted 3" BL and you've got between 8.5 and 9" of lift (again from my estimates!) on the rear, it looks like you've got lift blocks, inferring from the estimated difference between the axle tube and spring in the pic. I'm going to say around 3 to 3.5". they look like factory springs, in case you're curious. From the first pics, it looks like you're shackle is almost straight up and down. if so, and given an equal front to rear ride height, that would be around a 2.5" shackle lift. Heres my thoughts... one, I'm still not so sure about the trac bar setup. I know with lift blocks and factory springs, I had some HORRIBLE axle wrap, so I'd bet those were installed to fix a similar issue. I went to chevy springs and got about 4-4.5" of lift and got rid of the axle wrap. I also gained some better ride quality, but in turn lost a little departure angle. take that plus a small lift block and you'd have a good shackle angle, good ride and good flex... relatively speaking. (this advice all stemming from my worries that your shackle angle really is, straight up and down). on the front... I'd run the 35"s and check you're clearance. if possible I'd tone down the t-bars a little to be easier on your CVs. From experience wheeling a IFS truck on 37"s, carry CVs, the front passenger side inner axle shaft, and idler arms. Thankfully I never really broke a CV, but I did break SEVERAL passenger inner axle shafts and a couple idler arms. Hope all this helps. __________________ Cory Eastern OK, Western/Northern AR, Southeastern KS, or Southern MO area: OZARKS 4ROC Click Here 04 Dodge 2500 Cummins - DD/Tow Rig 02 Z06 Corvette - Weekender 94 FZJ80 - Wheelin Rig. Currently on 33"s, plan to go 35"s. 72 Buick GS - i.e. the project that will never get done.

08-11-2008, 10:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	cory thanks for all the input, it helps to know someone else who has run a similar set up. i thought of removing the body lift or cutting it in half, but wasn't sure if i could still fit the 35's. i will be sure to take some pics of the rear when possible and post them, hopefully this afternoon or first thing tomorrow. have you had issues with breaking tie rod ends on yours? i know with my chevy2500HD that has a 6" lift when i went to moab that was the 1st thing to go!

08-11-2008, 12:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	dirtoyboy, that was my think exactly. it looks a little too high and top heavy right now

08-11-2008, 02:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
Al's Chop Shop Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 402	lose the shocks on the ladder bars. thats pavement queen stuff... Al __________________ 81 Toyota pickup - Hers 22r, 5spd, 4x4, longbed on 33's... awaiting custom rears up front w/ downey shackles, chev 63's out back double shackled and 36's... 79 Jeep Cherokee Widetrack "Kronk" - The Build TBI350, SM465, NP205, Hydraulic clutch, Hydroboost, Custom aluminum radiator, Flowtech headers, SOA D44HD w/ Hi-steer, D60, 36" TSL/SX's, LED tail conversion... 91 Chevy K1500 - The Hauler TBI350, built 700r4, NP241, awaiting 4" lift... 92 FJ80 Land Cruiser - traded!

08-11-2008, 07:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
colsoncj Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monett, MO (Springfield) Posts: 2,489	never really had too much of a problem with the tie rods... mainly just the stuff i listed. im interested to look at your rear setup... and i'd leave one of the links and shocks on it to prevent axle wrap... like i said, i had a huge problem with that. best way to determine clearance is wheel it. take it out, flex it as best you can and figure out how much body lift you can remove! __________________ Cory Eastern OK, Western/Northern AR, Southeastern KS, or Southern MO area: OZARKS 4ROC Click Here 04 Dodge 2500 Cummins - DD/Tow Rig 02 Z06 Corvette - Weekender 94 FZJ80 - Wheelin Rig. Currently on 33"s, plan to go 35"s. 72 Buick GS - i.e. the project that will never get done.

08-13-2008, 06:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	i was afraid of catching the shock on rock & such and tearing them off, so removing them doesn't hurt my feelings at all. i believe that the lift was put on 6-7 years ago and those are the original shocks that came with it, some of the seals are leaking so i was going to replace all 8 shocks, but buying 4 really good shock instead of 8 decent ones sounds better on my wallet!

08-15-2008, 02:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	OK, so i got the runner back from the shop and measured and took pics of the rear. the shackle length is 9 1/2 long (8 1/2 center to center of bolts), the riser blocks are 3" and body lift blocks 3". do you or anyone else know the original shackle lenght? i'm guessing that original shackles are around 6" so that make a total of 3+3+approximately 2" of shackle = 8" lift?

08-15-2008, 02:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	sorry forgot the pics Attached Thumbnails

08-15-2008, 04:28 PM	#19 (permalink)
rhale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 63	so, i went to the local junk yard and got a set of stock 4runner shackles, 3 1/2". that means i started with 3"susp/3"body/5"shackle lift for a total of 11" of lift. no wonder i couldn't pass inspection. the frame was 4" above what utah allows for height!!