Lift theory. Can anyone fill in the blanks?

onroadrunner · 07-19-2008, 08:50 AM

The desired outcome is more clearance. The only way to get more clearance is to put on bigger tires. The best way to fit bigger tires is a suspension lift and possibly a body lift. But what goes up might… tip over if you don’t extend your wheel base*? (I mean to say make your wheels wider or further apart.)

Are there downsides to a body lift? Even just a 1 inch? What will it actually do for me? Will I see less rubbing? Who makes the best one?

What is better for making your stance wider? Wheel spacers or backspaced wheels? I am assuming that backspaced wheels means the outside edge sits further past the lugs allowing for a wider stance and tire. Any downsides?

Im planning the sonoran 1.2 kit for a 2002 4runner limited. Done a lot of searching but I just want to make sure I have this all straight.

if Thanks a lot.

4Crawler · 07-19-2008, 09:57 AM

An in depth discussion of various lift techniques and their impact on center of gravity on the web page below:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#Lifts

A 1" body lift generally has minimal affects on anything and can have some benefits as noted below:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...Kit.shtml#FAQ2

Track width (wider stance) discussed below:
- http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/Tires...ningTrackWidth

As noted, a wheel with less backspacing will stick out wider. Off-road it'll be more stable but you may find some impact on steering since you have more tire scrubbing going on. If planning to get new wheels, get them with less backspacing than stock. If planning to keep stock wheels, spacers are an option.

tc · 07-21-2008, 06:16 AM

On an IFS truck, a suspension lift does NOT allow you to fit bigger tires. The bumpstop is still in the same place, the tire will still attempt to compress to the same position. Of course, you can limit the compression travel, but that makes the truck more tippy too.

The ONLY ways to fit bigger tires on an IFS rig without limiting compression travel are a body lift or opening the fenders (either by cutting or replacing with fiberglass, etc).

dirtoyboy · 07-21-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

On an IFS truck, a suspension lift does NOT allow you to fit bigger tires. The bumpstop is still in the same place, the tire will still attempt to compress to the same position. Of course, you can limit the compression travel, but that makes the truck more tippy too.

The ONLY ways to fit bigger tires on an IFS rig without limiting compression travel are a body lift or opening the fenders (either by cutting or replacing with fiberglass, etc).

or cut or lo-profile bumpstops...thats what I did

**4x4Fink** · 07-21-2008, 07:05 AM

I did a similar lift and put 285's on my '99 Runner.
No issues at all.

Low-profile bumpstops are a good additional mod too...not necessary though, I never did mine.
Keep in mind, I never did any hard wheeling in my Runner - mainly camping roads, water crossings and minor crawling.

Fink

onroadrunner · 07-21-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

On an IFS truck, a suspension lift does NOT allow you to fit bigger tires. The bumpstop is still in the same place, the tire will still attempt to compress to the same position. Of course, you can limit the compression travel, but that makes the truck more tippy too.

The ONLY ways to fit bigger tires on an IFS rig without limiting compression travel are a body lift or opening the fenders (either by cutting or replacing with fiberglass, etc).

why do a suspension lift at all then? sry if thats a noob q.

4Crawler · 07-21-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onroadrunner

why do a suspension lift at all then? sry if thats a noob q.

The typical ~4" lift kits include brackets to lower the front suspension components away from the frame and body and those bo create more room for larger tires. Also a lower suspension lift kit, like ball joint spacers, can increase wheel travel for improved performance off-road. By combining a mild suspension and body lift, you get increased wheel travel as well as room for taller tires:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#FAQ10

tc · 07-21-2008, 09:00 PM

Oops, didn't think about bracket lifts ... yeah, they will allow you to fit bigger tires by basically the same theory as a body lift - increasing the separation between the suspension mounting points and the body (and frame in this case)

JDM74 · 07-22-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

On an IFS truck, a suspension lift does NOT allow you to fit bigger tires. The bumpstop is still in the same place, the tire will still attempt to compress to the same position. Of course, you can limit the compression travel, but that makes the truck more tippy too.

The ONLY ways to fit bigger tires on an IFS rig without limiting compression travel are a body lift or opening the fenders (either by cutting or replacing with fiberglass, etc).

Could you explain how this same fact does not hold true for a straight axle truck? If you don't lower the bumpstops the wheel is going to try to compress to the same point regardless of whether the tire is mounted to a knuckle on A-arms or the end of an axle housing, right? A leaf spring will go inverted if given the freedom of motion (long enough shackles).

tc · 07-22-2008, 03:43 PM

Yes, the tire will stuff to the same place, but you gain travel with a properly engineered solid axle lift, so you can place your bumpstops so that you either have the same travel, but can fit a larger tire OR can fit the same size tire with more travel.

JDM74 · 07-22-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Crawler

The typical ~4" lift kits include brackets to lower the front suspension components away from the frame and body and those bo create more room for larger tires. Also a lower suspension lift kit, like ball joint spacers, can increase wheel travel for improved performance off-road. By combining a mild suspension and body lift, you get increased wheel travel as well as room for taller tires:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#FAQ10

This is exactly what I modeled my truck build up after. 33x12.50X15 on 4.75 back spacing wheels, torsion bar lift and 1" body lift. No rubbing in the front and only a slight bit in the rear when I stuff one side all the way in the wheel well.

07-19-2008, 08:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
onroadrunner Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chicago Area Posts: 101	Lift theory. Can anyone fill in the blanks? The desired outcome is more clearance. The only way to get more clearance is to put on bigger tires. The best way to fit bigger tires is a suspension lift and possibly a body lift. But what goes up might… tip over if you don’t extend your wheel base*? (I mean to say make your wheels wider or further apart.) Are there downsides to a body lift? Even just a 1 inch? What will it actually do for me? Will I see less rubbing? Who makes the best one? What is better for making your stance wider? Wheel spacers or backspaced wheels? I am assuming that backspaced wheels means the outside edge sits further past the lugs allowing for a wider stance and tire. Any downsides? Im planning the sonoran 1.2 kit for a 2002 4runner limited. Done a lot of searching but I just want to make sure I have this all straight. if Thanks a lot. __________________ Buy my Stuff! Addco, PIAA, FIRESTIK wish i could change my name to "OffRoadRunner"... "Old man gold" 2002 4runner limited: -Sonoran Steel 1.2 -Bud Built Skid and Belly Plate -Yokahama Geolander AT-S 285/75/16s -AEM CAI -TRD Cat-back -Trans cooler -De-badged (much cleaner) Soon to be added: -Stubbs sliders -Matching alloy spare -Snowboard rackS i need to carry 4!

07-19-2008, 09:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 6,288	An in depth discussion of various lift techniques and their impact on center of gravity on the web page below: - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#Lifts A 1" body lift generally has minimal affects on anything and can have some benefits as noted below: - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...Kit.shtml#FAQ2 Track width (wider stance) discussed below: - http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/Tires...ningTrackWidth As noted, a wheel with less backspacing will stick out wider. Off-road it'll be more stable but you may find some impact on steering since you have more tire scrubbing going on. If planning to get new wheels, get them with less backspacing than stock. If planning to keep stock wheels, spacers are an option. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs. r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

07-21-2008, 06:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 6,910	On an IFS truck, a suspension lift does NOT allow you to fit bigger tires. The bumpstop is still in the same place, the tire will still attempt to compress to the same position. Of course, you can limit the compression travel, but that makes the truck more tippy too. The ONLY ways to fit bigger tires on an IFS rig without limiting compression travel are a body lift or opening the fenders (either by cutting or replacing with fiberglass, etc). __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

07-21-2008, 07:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
4x4Fink Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Centerton, AR Posts: 4,677	I did a similar lift and put 285's on my '99 Runner. No issues at all. Low-profile bumpstops are a good additional mod too...not necessary though, I never did mine. Keep in mind, I never did any hard wheeling in my Runner - mainly camping roads, water crossings and minor crawling. Fink __________________ Black 2007 Tacoma Double Cab SB 4x4 V6 TRD Sport AR-TTORA

07-21-2008, 09:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 6,910	Oops, didn't think about bracket lifts ... yeah, they will allow you to fit bigger tires by basically the same theory as a body lift - increasing the separation between the suspension mounting points and the body (and frame in this case) __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

07-22-2008, 03:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 6,910	Yes, the tire will stuff to the same place, but you gain travel with a properly engineered solid axle lift, so you can place your bumpstops so that you either have the same travel, but can fit a larger tire OR can fit the same size tire with more travel. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action Last edited by tc : 07-22-2008 at 03:45 PM.

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