bikeguy18974

I'm in the process of lifting my 86 4runner. I installed a superlift 4" kit and the ball joint spacer lift at the same time, with the supplied superlift shocks. I also installed new poly control arm bushings and all new ball joints. I am using stock bumpstops w/ the drop brackets supplied with the kit. I have it all back together with the exception of the torsion bars and wheels tires. Anyways I went to check how the suspension would cycle. I used a floor jack under each control arm to raise them. It felt like it was very tight (hard to raise the arms). Also I couldn't even get the lower arms to contact the bump stops. (I'm sure i could but I was already putting alot of pressure on the jack) On the passengers side the rubber boot on the upper ball joint pulled off on the outer most edge From everything I've read I should be able to get full compression with this setup. But obviously something is binding. How can I tell what's binding? If I torque a ball joint too hard could it cause this? I torqued all bolts to spec except the bolt joints because the new knuckle won't allow me to get a socket on the nut. Any help is appreciated.

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mt_goat

Did you grease up the new poly control arm bushings? I use dielectric grease mixed with powdered graphite. Is it a Superlift control arm? If so make sure you did'nt over-tighten the bolt that holds the poly bushings in place, too much squeeze on dry poly bushings will keep the arm from moving much.

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

bikeguy18974

Its a stock control arm but with daystar bushings. I used the poly lube that daystar supplies with their bushings. I also bought extra and lubed them really well. I used the factory torque spec on all the bolts to the poly.

On your advice I may loosen them up just to see if it changes anything and go from there.

Oh yeah, and if it helps anyone else, the swaybar is not on either.

mt_goat

Maybe try taking off the shock and see if that makes a difference. Maybe a bent shock. Have you got any pics? Maybe someone will spot something in a pic.

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

elripster

Let's start with the easy stuff.

You have the stock extension bumpstops on right? Good.

Most likely your shocks are long enough but that's easy to check, just unhook one and see if it drops farther.

Now for what I'm betting on... I bet your lower a-arms are hitting the bottom of the lift brackets. This problem can get worse or go away entirely depending on where those adjustment cams have the a-arm. If they are adjusted inwards, the arms will hit.(this is where they are if you had cranked the t-bars at all) It's not the end of the world, had you not found it they would have clearanced themselves. Since you have the ball joint spacers, those cams will get adjusted outwards and if that's the problem, it will go away.

You can check this by looking underneath at the bottom of the lift brackets or by adjusting the cams outwards and seeing if it drops more.

Frank

mt_goat

BTW, you want those adjustment cams bolts on the lower a-arm tight. Don't loosen those because of the poly bushings. I was talking about the upper a-arm bushings, that's where I have poly bushings in a Superlift a-arm.

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

bikeguy18974

I just went and tried both sides again, with the shocks removed. Same result.

I was looking at the LCA and seeing if anything was hitting. I didn't notice anything but after re-reading elripsters post I want to look at it again. BTW my problem is with compression (arms going up) not droop. They drop all the way to the upper stops no problem.

At this point it really looks to be in the upper ball joint. Fully compressed the rubber boots are squeezed real tight on the inside. Does anyone know if ball joints can be overtorqued and cause this.

I'm recharging my digicam batt now so hopefully I can get some pics up by tonight.

mt_goat

The castle nut just holds the bottom of the ball joint in place, the tightness doesn't effect the ball joint itself and would have no effect on the range of motion of the ball. I did notice that there is a left and right ball joint, but other than the nipple on the rubber boot I couldn't see any difference in them. Maybe the ball has a different range of motion for the left vs the right and you got them mixed up? The nipple on the boot should be facing the rear of the truck. Is the upper a-arm hitting anything?

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

elripster

That's very interesting. Have you modified this kit for more up travel? I currently have lots of up travel (modified 4" Trailmaster kit) and am able to use it all with the spacers.

Tightening the ball joints should not effect travel. If you mod the kit for more up travel, spacers of at least .25" are necessary to prevent the spindle spacer from hitting that lip you trimmed when you installed the spacers.

Definitely post a pic when you can. I'd also look into making sure the joints aren't on the wrong sides. I don't know the exact differences either but it's nice to eliminate that as a potential problem.

Frank

mt_goat

Here is my upper ball joint taken to the max up travel (by mistake) http://community.webshots.com/photo/...51027353NJmVZn

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

bikeguy18974

Okay I need to look clser at my upper arm to see if there is any contact. My alignment is way off but will try to get it close this weekend and then done professionally. I've done nothing to modify the travel. The kit and spacers are stock. If you need more pics let me know.

Okay here's some pics:
Passenger Side(PS) Full droop-below:


PS Level-below:


PS Full Stuff about a half inch away from bump stops:


PS Full stuff ball joint close up:


PS Full Stuff lower ball joint and arm; no contact on brake shield:


Driver side full droop:


Driver side level:


Driver side full stuff about half inch to bump stop:


Driver upper ball joint close up:


Driver lower ball joint and arm just touching dust shield:

mt_goat

When you say the t-bars aren't connected, do you mean the adjustment bolt is loose? Or are the t-bars out completely? If the t-bar is connected to the UCA and the adjustment bolt is loose or even out there will still be a lot of resistance to cycling the UCA to full stuff because the lever the adjustment bolt goes into will hit the floor of the cab (unless you have a body lift) and still let the t-bar see some torquing.

You are getting quite a bit of up travel, looking at your cv angles. Maybe the t-bar is keeping just a little torque on the UCA?

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

elripster

I've noticed a few things some of which don't have to do with the binding since you for example tried it without the shocks. BTW, great pics!

1) Looks like the shocks are hitting (or are about to hit) the lower bumpstop mounts. I had to trim mine some when I went to air shocks because I have lots of up travel too and they hit.

2) The shocks look nearly stuffed, even if the binding issue is resolve, how much further can they go? Probably worth checking since they look new. BTW, you trucks suspension looks great!

3) At full stuff, have you cycled the steering? You want to make sure the tie rods don't hit the frame.

I'm banking on three things. One, what Mt Goat suggested. Two, the upper ball joint is as far as it can go. Three, the CV's are binding.

At full stuff, grab the axle shaft and see if you can slide it back and forth. Also spin the hub (locked) and check for binding. If it is being compressed (the suspension at that point is swining in nearly as much as upwards so the shaft can run out of slop,also why shocks hit bumpstop mounts) this might be fixed when you align the front end. You'll be moving those lower adjustment cams outwards and that will help. BTW, doing an eyeball alignment is a very good idea, helps what is too often less than brilliant folks at the alignment shop.

I'm not sure if this will be possible, the tbars would have to be disconnected and under no load, but if they are and you can unbolt the ball joint when compressed, you should be able to see for sure how much farther it can go.

Check out this lower a-arm angle.


Frank

bikeguy18974

Okay guys, thanks for the great help.

I've spent the morning working on the truck. I found the problem, but first just to clarify. My t-bars are off the truck, sitting in the garage so I think I am getting more travel than I will ever see unless I actually jump the truck.

My problem isn't binding. It is bottoming. With no t-bars and the suspension stuffed as far as it goes the backside of the upper control arm is hitting the frame. I couldn't actually see it. I slipped a zip tie all along the frame and found the contact point. So at least I found what it was but have no idea how to fix it or if it will be a problem

I installed the t-bars and tried the same thing and I don't even get close to full stuff. I have the stock bars turned out as far as I can so I can still get the lock nut on. There's just no enough weight for my method to be effective I guess.

My alignment is WAYYYYY off. I tried a little adjusting but realized I have no idea what I am doing. I am going to read up on it and try some more later. It is so off the truck almost hops as i drive.

Once again thank you guys for your help. If you have any other tips for me I am sure I could use them while I try to get the truck back on the road.

You guys are the greatest

elripster

I'm going to check that on my truck at lunch today. I never even thought about binding there. You may very well have just discovered some new knowledge. I wonder if those of us with 4" kits have simply been self clearancing those parts for years?

As for the alignment, set the front where you want the height. You'll find it raises when you go forwards and drops when you back up. Just get it close.

Adjust the camber with the cams on the LCA's o the front tires look like they are vertical.

Adjust the toe best you can. Use a tape measure, try to get about .25-.5" of toe in.

Go back and check the height.

Try to position the alignment cams so they are biased the same. For example, you can have the camber in with the cams in opposing positions. Have both fron LCA cams turned inwards and the rears turned outwards. That should also get your caster close.

At that point you're ready to head to the shop.

Frank

mt_goat

Wow, maybe that's why my Superlift kit replaced and relocated the UCAs! I always wondered why they did that. Maybe you should lenghten your bump stops so you hit them first, I'm always suprised how easy it is to completely stuff a wheel (especially going down hill). You don't want to be crashing the UCA into the frame on some rough trail.

It would be nice to get the alignment close enough to test drive so you can dial in the t-bars where you want them. After you adjust the t-bars you need to drive a mile to settle them in and see how the truck sets. The t-bar adjustment changes the alignment too.

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

elripster

I checked mine out today, can't see any signs of contact between the UCA's and frame. I have hit my bumpstops many many times and I have home grown shorter bumpstop brackets.

Bikeguy, how much distance is there between your bumpstops and the mounting bracket? I'll compare it to mine.

Frank

bikeguy18974

Not sure what you mean by, how much distance between bumpstops and mounting bracket. Do you mean how tall are the drop brackets for the bumpstops?

If so the superlift instructions claim the LCA rear leg bumpstop is 3 5/8" tall and the LCA front bumpstop extension is 3 1/8" tall.

I'll probably shim them as suggested so they do their job instead of the frame.

As you mentioned earlier I will be trimming my bumpstops if not more to clear the shocks. The shocks are just the cheapies that come with the kit and but hopefully once I get everything all worked out I'll get something better.

Just so you guys know the contact point is the frame on the inside (closer to engine) and the rear of the arm at the point that is rear most on the truck.

As for alignment the weather didn't cooperate. If I can over the weekend maybe I'll take a pic because its funny how far out it is.

elripster

What I was refering to was the distance from where those drop brackets mount (part you'll have to trim for the shocks) to the bottom of the bumpstop.

I have stock bumpstops on modded drop brackets. Since these are what is supposed to limit up travel, I was just curious to compare each just to see how close I might be to having a similar problem.

Here's how mine look.


Frank