rictorsan

Background
I'm considering purchasing a 3d Gen. 4Runner..would love a new V8 but only have about 19k to spend. The 4Runner seems like the perfect vehicle, save the lack of power in the 3.4 V6. I have to navigate many long mountain passes where I live and an underpowered vehicle is a drag. I've ruled out the LandCruiser and Sequoia and other similar makes...to big and boatlike for my taste and don't care for the Explorers, Escapes, etc.

I'll be using it mainly on the street for the family and to haul clients around (so I need a Limited). I also want to tow a 1,500-2,000 lb pop up camper, as well as some light offroad use, and to navigate through the long snowfilled winters.

Possibility
I almost gave up on consideration of the 4Runner until I came across one for sale locally, a '99 Limited with 89,000 miles, and a TRD Supercharger. Have not driven or seen the vehicle yet. On paper, seems like a great option for me but the seller has it priced at $22.9k Blue book is about $16-17k. He's telling me the TRD would add about $3k in value, and he's asking another $3k as he's stating this year, with a supercharger is extremely rare. He's also stating it's a V8 (?)

Now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but what would be the actual additional value of an existing TRD supercharger in a used vehicle? Is it normal to pay a premium?

Also, what should I look out for with a used supercharger.

Thanks

rictorsan

DavidA

I would not consider the 3.4 liter underpowered without a SC. I have one with a 5-speed and it romps up mountain passes in Colorado. It really would be alot of fun with an SC.

Tell him that you can buy a new SC for $27**.00 It is not rare, anyone can buy the SC for one.

They guys and gals here with SC will chime in on what to look for and their experiences. Good Luck!

bamachem

BS. There's NO SUCH THING as a 99 4runner with a supercharged V8 unless he's done an engine swap, and you probally want to stay away from that.

You can get a 99 Limited 4WD with that mileage for $15k-$16k all day long. Add $1800 for a supercharger (TOR or eBay or some other special) and $400 for the dealer to install it. Total with a NEW 2nd gen supercharger (dealer installed) should be NO MORE than $18k. Keep looking.

BTW: a 99 with a supercharger is NOT RARE.

SLC Punk

I agree with Andy, its not worth that price! Buy a fair priced Limited and get the supercharger after that.

BTW, welcome to the board!

rictorsan

Kinda what I figured. Hopefully this guy is just plain misinformed instead of out to scam someone. I'm betting he bought the car used, overpaid based on the same BS and just wants to recoup his investment.

lee

yea that guy is full of it. he wants full price on the vehicle and absolute full price on the supercharger.

sc's do not go for much more than 2K, and as andy said, you can find them for 1800 most times.

welcome & good luck.

bamachem

Oh, and BTW: welcome to yotatech...

Gadget

A supercharger does not increase the value of the vehicle. In most cases aftermarket modifications would devalue the vehicle unless you had a super clear history of it.

I bought a used one with a supercharger on it, but I knew the guy that bought it and knew its whole history and it was cherry BIG TIME. I know because I installed the fuel mods on it and it only had 8000 miles on it an I doubt it had not been over the speed limit more then a dozen times. You are not going to find one like this EVER.

I would not consider buying a used truck with a supercharger on it because you have no idea how it was cared for. You have no idea how much damage has been done running it with out the needed fuel mods. You have no idea how much longer the tranny is going to last with out it being properly modified for the supercharger.

You should just stay away from a used supercharged truck. Find one without the charger on it and then make sure it is in great shape and then do the performance modfications yourself the right way so you will not get stuck with a whole can of expensive worms.

This is the reason why most people that sell their truck remove the supercharger so they will not take a hit on the resale value.

Gadget

lee

wait, so is it essentially required that you perform fuel mods & tranny mods (cooling, i assume) when installing an SC?

Gadget

That is a matter of opinion.

Feel free to stop by my site and read it through. Then make up your own mind.

If you decide to do the upgrades, our kit on www.URDUSA.com is a total one box solution to the supercharger issues. Then you can do the valve body upgrade and drive worry free.

Gadget

midiwall

A 2nd vote to read Gadget's supercharger info, but in general...

• Many folks will experience pinging issues after installing an S/C
  To fix this, you need to retard the timing.
  
  
• Many folks will experience lean-out conditions after installing an S/C
  To fix this, you'll need to get more fuel into the engine, which generally requires a) larger injectors, b) higher capacity fuel pump to feed the injectors, and c) a fuel controller to piggy-back the stock ECU and control the new injectors.
  
  
• The tranny will be working harder
  To handle this, you _should_ do a "valve body upgrade" the likes of which is outlined in this thread: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/whats-valve-body-upgrade-27512/
  
  And, it's never a bad idea to add a tranny cooler

Now, "some folks" have had success running an S/C and never done the fuel mods, timing changes or had any work done on the transmission. They're in the vast minority though.

AznSky

tell him he's a turd

lee

why did toyota develop a supercharger that requires aftermarket solutions to make it function correctly?

midiwall

You're assuming that Toyota admits that it needs aftermarket solutions to make it work right. Actually, even though their own 7th injector kit will do just that, their marketing angle admits no fault.

I don't think that anyone here is close enough to Toyota to know what the designers were thinking, but it's obvious that they didn't do a lot of testing before putting it on the market. The fact that some folks don't have issues may show that the tolerance of some systems is wide enough that the ECUs can correct for the ping/knock and the lean-out up top.

In the real world though, these tolerant systems are rarely found.

lee

how much is toyota's kit?

this is all ridiculous as far as im concerned. thats disappointing to hear that toyota would make such a faulty product, even in its 2nd iteration (black versus gray).

Flamedx4

Lee, it isn't a "faulty product," it's an aftermarket performance modification. TRD is an aftermarket company just like B&M or anyone else. The SC is not a replacement part, it's the heart of a major modification to your engine. Of course fuel mixtures need to change, you don't get lots of HP with the same of amount a fuel and the computer can only adapt within the parameters it was programmed for. To really get it going bigger injectors are the hot ticket, but then you're REALLY outside the stock envelope, so you add the other stuff to compensate for That modification. Now that the intake side is working well, lets get those gasses out of the engine with a nice header and exhaust sytem. NOW we're cookin! Of course the extra power puts stresses on things that weren't designed for it, and unless you baby it you might want to beef them up too. If it's a *gasp* automatic, it will need a bunch of mods to avoid premature death due to all the additional heat it generates now that it's getting another hundred horsepower to manage. The SC kit functions fine without additional mods in most cases, but if you want to get the most out it (and why would you spend the money if you didn't?) then you would naturally consider the extra steps to maximize your investment. Think of it as hot rodding.

midiwall

The 7th injector floats around eBay (new) for about $1050. Gadget's kit (sold through his company URD) is $899 or $949 depending on the year of your rig.

TRD's is plug & play in the sense that there is NO ability to tweak. URD's is more work to install, but the end result is VERY tweakable.


I kindof agree with Flamedx4 here...

If you isolate the S/C as a single product, then the TRD S/C is sold a performance add-on, and the product is excellent. It adds a lot of power to your truck and makes the driving experience a whole lotta fun.

But, a side effect of using the product is that the engine may ping and run lean. "May" is relative, I think there are two people here on YT that have spoken up to say that they're running a S/C without any fuel mods and don't have ping or lean-out issues.

To address this point, TRD _does_ offer a package that includes the S/C and the 7th injector (and offers the 7th injector separately), which all totalled will run you about $3k depending on who you buy it from. Their marketing angle on the 7th injector is that (as Flamedx4 said) adding it will get even more power out of your S/C. This is true.

Something that Flamedx4 doesn't bring up is that if you install the S/C and find that it _does_ ping and run lean, then you run the risk of doing damage to the engine if you ignore it. When they ping, they really ping - it's not subtle, it's pretty bad. This is where I think TRD is really dropping the ball - this ping/lean problem isn't new, and I don't think that there's even a customer service bulletin on what the issue really is.

But again, this isn't a _fault_ of the S/C, it's a side effect of bringing a LOT more air into the engine, and the truck not being able to deliver more fuel to compensate for it.


Way back when, if TRD would have come out with the S/C and _required_ the 7th injector (and related ECU pigggy-back) then no one would have thought twice about it. They would have seen a $3000 package that adds a bunch-o horsepower to their trucks and been "happy" with that.

But, as it turns out, TRD didn't address the issue until many years of the S/C being on the street, and thus has given it a bad name.

I can tell you that a lot of folks driving other cars/trucks are pretty jealous that we can spend "only" $1600-1800 on an S/C. They're USED to spending $3000+ on a S/C or turbo kit. Personally, I think of the cost of adding an S/C to my truck to be about $3000, not $1800. That becomes a more realistic number when it's all said and done.


Just to put credit where deserved, I learned most of this history from Gadget's site...

lee

sorry, i used the wrong word. 'faulty' was a bit strong. i guess im just surprised that toyota (TRD) would issue a product as standalone that would damage the engine if not used in conjunction with other modifications.

but its all fine, i want an SC very badly, and when i do it, i'll do it right. 3k aint bad for 60 extra horses and a crapload of fun.

thanks for the details guys, and gadget, your site is really fantastic.

X-AWDriver

Actually TRD is more like STi is to Subaru or Nismo is to Nissan meaning they are still owned by their respective brands and make products up to manufacturer standards and only for that brand and are endorsed for use. Other aftermarket companies don't really work in conjunction with the specific car brands and aren't backed in any way by that brand.

TRD is factory authorized as oppossed to some companies that supply parts to a dealer which is handled on an individual basis not the whole corporation.