URD kit installed today
07-02-2004, 01:17 PM
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URD kit installed today
Well, I just picked up my truck today for the URD upgrade. I'm not to impressed by it YET, until I can tweak the FTC and have the valve body re-worked. I took her for a spin, still noticed the pinging, and it seems to struggle a little bit more to get to 90. Maybe I can disconnect the battery and let the computer learn like when I installed the S/C, or will this also wipe out the memory on the FTC? Does the FTC even have a memory? Say I go away on vacation and my battery dies, do I have to play with it again?
I'm still hoping for the best, BY NO MEANS AM I BASHING THE KIT. I am just saying what I am experiencing right now.
BTW it was just under $600 to install.
No shops with a dyno are open till Tuesday 6/6 to get it fine tuned.
Like I said, not bashing the kit. I just want to make that clear so Gadget doesn't get mad.
I guess I was expecting to spin the tires when I picked it up, like when I first slapped the S/C on. I was able to spin them for that one time and no more after that.
edit: Gadget - let me know about the FTC having a memory. I am guessing it has something if you are able to pre-load a schematic for it and ship it. I am just curious as to weather or not once you power it up and then disconnect the battery, if all the loaded tables are erased.
I'm still hoping for the best, BY NO MEANS AM I BASHING THE KIT. I am just saying what I am experiencing right now.
BTW it was just under $600 to install.
No shops with a dyno are open till Tuesday 6/6 to get it fine tuned.
Like I said, not bashing the kit. I just want to make that clear so Gadget doesn't get mad.
I guess I was expecting to spin the tires when I picked it up, like when I first slapped the S/C on. I was able to spin them for that one time and no more after that.
edit: Gadget - let me know about the FTC having a memory. I am guessing it has something if you are able to pre-load a schematic for it and ship it. I am just curious as to weather or not once you power it up and then disconnect the battery, if all the loaded tables are erased.
Last edited by 4-RUNNIN' FREAK; 07-02-2004 at 05:11 PM.
07-02-2004, 03:10 PM
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My understanding was that it was a plug and play kit. I sure hope you get some tips because now I'm a bit leary of putting such a big hunk of change down on the URD kit. I want more power, but reliable, hassle free power.
Please keep us posted.
Please keep us posted.
07-02-2004, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 4RunnerFever
My understanding was that it was a plug and play kit. I sure hope you get some tips because now I'm a bit leary of putting such a big hunk of change down on the URD kit. I want more power, but reliable, hassle free power.
Please keep us posted.
Please keep us posted.
07-02-2004, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 4RunnerFever
My understanding was that it was a plug and play kit. I sure hope you get some tips because now I'm a bit leary of putting such a big hunk of change down on the URD kit. I want more power, but reliable, hassle free power.
Please keep us posted.
Please keep us posted.
If you go with the 7th injector and you still have problems, you might have to deal with it.
I was talking to the parts guy at the local dealer when I was still on good terms with the dealer and he even said it wasn't the best thing. He said it basically acts as an intercooler and does very little for performance.
I am glad I bought the URD kit, but I wish it was more plug and play, but life isn't easy. I know I have a ton of room for adjustments with this kit.
I wish Gadget was closer so he could maybe check it all out. But I'll slap it on a dyno and fine tune everything and then it's time to play. (After the valve body upgrade)
BTW, does anyone have some experience with dyno tuning?
07-02-2004, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by unr.frosh
That's what the 7th injector is. The URD is a kit you have to fine tune.
07-02-2004, 05:42 PM
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I'll try, but I'm no help right now until I get it all tweaked. I shall try some more myself. but I will let a pro do the rest for the air/fuel mixture and all.
I will keep you informed on my progress.
Like I said before, I have to get the FTC tweaked and the valve body mod.
I just hate taking off from work to sit around in suspense while things get done.
I will keep you informed on my progress.
Like I said before, I have to get the FTC tweaked and the valve body mod.
I just hate taking off from work to sit around in suspense while things get done.
Last edited by 4-RUNNIN' FREAK; 07-02-2004 at 05:45 PM.
07-09-2004, 01:30 PM
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I guess the computer is learning. On the way home from work on the highway I hit 105 like I used to without the S/C. All I can say, If this is the beginning and it's not dyno tuned and no valve body work done....WOW.
But there is one thing, It seems to totally lose power at some points, then I back off and the power really isn't there. maybe the tranny slipping? Anyone have an idea? It like totally cuts out.
But there is one thing, It seems to totally lose power at some points, then I back off and the power really isn't there. maybe the tranny slipping? Anyone have an idea? It like totally cuts out.
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07-09-2004, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 4-RUNNIN' FREAK
I guess the computer is learning. On the way home from work on the highway I hit 105 like I used to without the S/C. All I can say, If this is the beginning and it's not dyno tuned and no valve body work done....WOW.
But there is one thing, It seems to totally lose power at some points, then I back off and the power really isn't there. maybe the tranny slipping? Anyone have an idea? It like totally cuts out.
But there is one thing, It seems to totally lose power at some points, then I back off and the power really isn't there. maybe the tranny slipping? Anyone have an idea? It like totally cuts out.
Either you are too rich in that cell or too lean. That's way, you must tune the FTC, my 4runner did the same thing until I tuned it with OBDII scan tool. You must tune the close loop LTFT (long term fuel trim) to near zero in order to get the best AFR. Then you need to tune it at WOT.
07-09-2004, 03:47 PM
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OK, now should I get the OBDII or have it tuned at a dyno shop and then get the OBDII. I am figuring they can do a better job at first and then I can tweak it out.
The thing is, some guys that had their cars tuned said to expect about a $700 bill to tweak it out (he owns all mustangs and tuned those so I guess it will be higher for an import). I think i'd rather have a pro take a crack at it this time.
Plus I still need the valve body upgrade. Hopefully sometime this week or next week.
The thing is, some guys that had their cars tuned said to expect about a $700 bill to tweak it out (he owns all mustangs and tuned those so I guess it will be higher for an import). I think i'd rather have a pro take a crack at it this time.
Plus I still need the valve body upgrade. Hopefully sometime this week or next week.
07-09-2004, 03:58 PM
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Well, I thought the folks at the IT (information Technology) department were bad about using acronyms for everything. I guess gear heads make the same assumption that everyone knows what the heck they mean.
Anyway the pinging can leave you RBO and the engine FTD. I hope this helped.
AMF!!!!!!!!
MV
Anyway the pinging can leave you RBO and the engine FTD. I hope this helped.
AMF!!!!!!!!
MV
07-09-2004, 04:10 PM
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Tuning our trucks is kindof a hit & miss art. Those words kinda' don't go really together, but they fit in this circumstance.
To really tune, you need an OBD II tool to be able to handle closed loop tuning. Then to do open loop (WOT), you need an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) meter.
A dyno shop will generally only be tuning for WOT performance, and for our trucks, it's an "interesting" tact. They'll be watching AFR, but generally they're looking at it at the tailpipe which is "weird". We all run catalytic convertors, and since their job is to reduce the emissions, the directly affect the AFR as measured at the tailpipe. To properly tune our trucks, you need an AFR meter which runs off of your current O2 sensor (in front of the cat), or better yet, a wideband sensor that you install near the current forward O2 sensor.
Watch out for the dyno shop overcharging you - $700 for a dyno tune of our trucks is a LOT. That's probably based on a flat setup fee plus a per/hour charge. You shouldn't need more than 2 hours total, because there simply isn't THAT much that you can change.
With the FTC you have access to timing and fuel, (which is about all you need), but you'll quickly zero-in on the difference between a "1" and a "2" in a column. You may find that the level of granularity in the FTC is such that placing a "2" in a fuel column makes you run a bit high in terms of "the magic" AFR number, but then a "1" is WAY low. So your only option at that point will be to run with "2".
That kind of a decision process will take about 3 minutes which includes the spool-up and down time.
Adding time to play with the timing will add some wall-clock time, but not a whole bunch. You'll basically be advancing the timing to the point that you start to ping and then back-off. Or in your case, retarding the timing to stop the ping... That's really quick to do on a dyno.
WEAR EAR PROTECTION ON THE DYNO!
It's not so much to protect your hearing, it's more about making it easier to hear light pinging. It really works.
Gadget's got some pretty good words in a thread back from 8/2003:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/back-dyno-tune-15052/
Read down there where he talks about HOW you should be tuning. Closed Loop first (do this with an OBD II tool) then Open Loop (do this on a dyno with an AFR).
So... to answer your question, you should buy an OBD II reader first, get the LTFT set up right, then head to the dyno.
To really tune, you need an OBD II tool to be able to handle closed loop tuning. Then to do open loop (WOT), you need an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) meter.
A dyno shop will generally only be tuning for WOT performance, and for our trucks, it's an "interesting" tact. They'll be watching AFR, but generally they're looking at it at the tailpipe which is "weird". We all run catalytic convertors, and since their job is to reduce the emissions, the directly affect the AFR as measured at the tailpipe. To properly tune our trucks, you need an AFR meter which runs off of your current O2 sensor (in front of the cat), or better yet, a wideband sensor that you install near the current forward O2 sensor.
Watch out for the dyno shop overcharging you - $700 for a dyno tune of our trucks is a LOT. That's probably based on a flat setup fee plus a per/hour charge. You shouldn't need more than 2 hours total, because there simply isn't THAT much that you can change.
With the FTC you have access to timing and fuel, (which is about all you need), but you'll quickly zero-in on the difference between a "1" and a "2" in a column. You may find that the level of granularity in the FTC is such that placing a "2" in a fuel column makes you run a bit high in terms of "the magic" AFR number, but then a "1" is WAY low. So your only option at that point will be to run with "2".
That kind of a decision process will take about 3 minutes which includes the spool-up and down time.
Adding time to play with the timing will add some wall-clock time, but not a whole bunch. You'll basically be advancing the timing to the point that you start to ping and then back-off. Or in your case, retarding the timing to stop the ping... That's really quick to do on a dyno.
WEAR EAR PROTECTION ON THE DYNO!
It's not so much to protect your hearing, it's more about making it easier to hear light pinging. It really works.
Gadget's got some pretty good words in a thread back from 8/2003:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/back-dyno-tune-15052/
Read down there where he talks about HOW you should be tuning. Closed Loop first (do this with an OBD II tool) then Open Loop (do this on a dyno with an AFR).
So... to answer your question, you should buy an OBD II reader first, get the LTFT set up right, then head to the dyno.
Last edited by midiwall; 07-09-2004 at 04:12 PM.
07-09-2004, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 4-RUNNIN' FREAK
OK, now should I get the OBDII or have it tuned at a dyno shop and then get the OBDII. I am figuring they can do a better job at first and then I can tweak it out.
The thing is, some guys that had their cars tuned said to expect about a $700 bill to tweak it out (he owns all mustangs and tuned those so I guess it will be higher for an import). I think i'd rather have a pro take a crack at it this time.
Plus I still need the valve body upgrade. Hopefully sometime this week or next week.
The thing is, some guys that had their cars tuned said to expect about a $700 bill to tweak it out (he owns all mustangs and tuned those so I guess it will be higher for an import). I think i'd rather have a pro take a crack at it this time.
Plus I still need the valve body upgrade. Hopefully sometime this week or next week.
I still need to tune mine for open loop. So far I'm getting 230 HP at my rear wheel and by tuning the open loop, I'm hoping to get to high 230s.
Good luck.
07-09-2004, 05:21 PM
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Don't waste your money doing a dyno tune just now.
If you get a O2 sensor bung welded in I will tune your truck for you. You are only a few hours away and it all can be done in a day.
If you are not noticing a nice power increase, keep it out of boost until I can check and tune it up for you. If there is a chance it might be to lean and boosting it may not be a good thing.
A dyno shop is only going to fine tune WOT and that should be the very last step in the tuning process if done at all.
The closed loop and all the boost ranges including WOT should be road tuned first to get everying set up right before trying to dyno tune at WOT. That way you will have a very strong base to work from otherwise you will be all day on the dyno and not have the result you are looking for.
So, if you want to make a trip down to the DC area I will dial it in for you, but you have to get the bung welded in first so I can install my wide band unit.
Gadget
If you get a O2 sensor bung welded in I will tune your truck for you. You are only a few hours away and it all can be done in a day.
If you are not noticing a nice power increase, keep it out of boost until I can check and tune it up for you. If there is a chance it might be to lean and boosting it may not be a good thing.
A dyno shop is only going to fine tune WOT and that should be the very last step in the tuning process if done at all.
The closed loop and all the boost ranges including WOT should be road tuned first to get everying set up right before trying to dyno tune at WOT. That way you will have a very strong base to work from otherwise you will be all day on the dyno and not have the result you are looking for.
So, if you want to make a trip down to the DC area I will dial it in for you, but you have to get the bung welded in first so I can install my wide band unit.
Gadget
07-09-2004, 09:44 PM
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What does that run? $7 for the bung (about) Plus welding.
I will gladly make a trip down to the DC area to get it done properly.
What are ya gonna hit me up for:smile:?
Is it going to be a full tune? Everything is all hooked up and ready to go except the bung. I will order that from you and go down after I get it welded in.
I will schedule a few days off from work to visit the area. (I would really like to check out the Vietnam memorial, nice I was going to do it someday, I might as well do it sooner than later.) Should make a nice trip.
She was running sweet about 20 mins ago and it's 75 degrees out.
Is there anything else I might need to know?
Thank you much in advance.
I will gladly make a trip down to the DC area to get it done properly.
What are ya gonna hit me up for:smile:?
Is it going to be a full tune? Everything is all hooked up and ready to go except the bung. I will order that from you and go down after I get it welded in.
I will schedule a few days off from work to visit the area. (I would really like to check out the Vietnam memorial, nice I was going to do it someday, I might as well do it sooner than later.) Should make a nice trip.
She was running sweet about 20 mins ago and it's 75 degrees out.
Is there anything else I might need to know?
Thank you much in advance.
07-10-2004, 05:26 PM
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OK. Should I order it from you, or just go local and get one?
I had it in boost alot today in upstate NY. Couldn't avoid boost with traffic behind me on some steep hills. There was nowhere to pull off the road either.
I had it in boost alot today in upstate NY. Couldn't avoid boost with traffic behind me on some steep hills. There was nowhere to pull off the road either.
Last edited by 4-RUNNIN' FREAK; 07-10-2004 at 05:29 PM.
07-11-2004, 12:33 PM
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The site seems to be up when I checked it.
Stainless O2 bungs are super hard to find. I found one place that could provide them at $14 each OUR cost. That is way to much. I had our machinist make ours up for us to sell.
Everyone has mild steel bungs, but the problem is that they will rust up so fast you are not going to be able to use them after a few months.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
Stainless O2 bungs are super hard to find. I found one place that could provide them at $14 each OUR cost. That is way to much. I had our machinist make ours up for us to sell.
Everyone has mild steel bungs, but the problem is that they will rust up so fast you are not going to be able to use them after a few months.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
07-11-2004, 02:41 PM
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OK. I'll order yours. Now, should I get the valve body upgrade first? In other words, if I had you tune it out and then get the valve body upgrade, will I have to get it retuned?
