mastacox

Time to leave the days of the 3.Slow behind me...

SO, I'm getting a '98 4Runner, it is already supercharged. I'm going to be getting a URD kit installed on it about 3 days after I buy it because I want to make sure I am far away from any lean out/ping difficulties, plus a little extra power can't hurt (except the tranny ).

Anyway, the problem is 3 days after I get the URD kit installed, I will be driving to AZ for Labor Day weekend, and I want to bring my shiny new 4Runner... and I don't think I will have an EGT or narrow-band AF/R gauge yet... Will I be able to tune my rig safely so that I can drive with no ping and good power, while just erring on the conservative side until I get better instrumentation?

Obviously I will be calling URD to ask the masters, but just thought I'd do a little feeler thread first.

midiwall

KUDOS TO YOU!


When you say "URD kit" are you talking about the Fuel pump, injectors and FTC1? Is it new out of the box or used?

If it's all 3 things, and new from URD then you'll be fine. The FTC1 ships with a "good start" map in it. If it's used, then you don't know what the previous owner may have done to the maps and you should at least look at 'em. If you're not getting the fuel pump & injectors, then you may still have trouble since you're not doing anything to a) increase the pressure in the fuel rails, b) get more fuel into the engine.

mastacox

I'm getting a brand-new "URD 3.4l Supercharger Fuel Upgrade Kit" from URD, so the fuel pump, fuel injectors, Denso Iridium IK22's, and FTC1.

I also will be buying a URD 2.2" pulley with it, will this run me into problems, or can they load a base map for smaller pulley that will give me a solid place to start off of? More than anything the pulley will be to gain some lost horsepower since I will be hanging out above 4000 feet almost all of the time, and half of the time above 6500 feet, sometimes as high as 9000-10000 ft.

midiwall

You'll definitely want to re-tune at some point, but you'll be okay with the kit out-of-the-box for a while.

Actually the 2.2" pulley will probably help out in getting the stock maps more in line with how the truck _should_ run at that altitude. By default, you'll probably run rich, but the smaller pulley should tame that out a hair.

It'll be interesting to hear how things work at 10,000... PLEASE let us know!

Good luck, and have fun!

mastacox

Oh man, it's going to be AWSEOME!!! This thing is going to FLY compared to my 4Runner I have now... I might need a better radar detector

Nah, I'll just be careful.

I will have time to do some tuning, I'll be borrowing a laptop and messing around some. But, in the end as long as I have no ping and good power I'll be happy.

As for going up to 10,000 ft, I'm considering later on also having a 2.1" pulley on hand (because it will get me pretty much to sea level, even though I'm at 7500), but I'm not sure I feel like constantly changing pulleys around based on where I'm going :pat: We'll see, the pulleys are comparatively cheap, and a great way to account for the altitude, which I love.

But, first thing's first: dual guage pod and a dual EGR/AFR gauge from Westach... Westach seriously needs a better website by the way.

I will definitely do some posts on my trials and tribulations at altitude

midiwall

Make sure you save the current maps so you have a place to get back to! I think URD supplies a CD with the maps on it, I'm not sure though.


Do you ever go below 5,000'? I ask 'cause running something smaller than the 2.2" will _require_ retuning if you're aiming low.


Remember that you'll be able to swap maps around as well. i.e., you could tune for lower altitude with the 2.2, then with the 2.1, then move higher and retune with each. Save a set of maps from each set and swap them at will. A laptop that's "okay" for running the tuning software will run you about $100-150 off of eBay. I bought a laptop to keep in the truck for just this purpose.


Yeah... they're kinda' old-school with just tossing info out there. Who'd you end up buying the gauge from?

mastacox

Yup, that's definitely the plan.

Yes, I will be going down to 5000 feet or under some times, depending on where my road trips take me. I like the idea of having several maps based on what pulley I have on and where I'm planning on going. I have a GPS so I will be able to know exactly what the altitude is in any given situation. I will basically aim to have the same boost I would have with a 9 psi pulley ASL.

I was also planning on getting a cheap laptop off of Ebay later on like you suggested, a small one I can put in some kind of attached pocket/case under the passenger seat. I need to ask URD what the min system requirements for the tuning software are though... I'll just have some small 300W inverter to run it off of since the battery likely will tend to go dead.

I haven't bought the gauge yet. Do I need to find someone that carries that gauge, or can I just buy it from Westach directly? One way or another, their website shows that they make/have an EGT/AFR dual gauge, so at least something like that exists. Problem is I will only have space for one more gauge in the dual gauge pod (which I also have yet to buy) and I don't really want to start wedging gauges everywhere. I prefer a nice clean non-cluttered look.

Once I have the EGT gauge along with some idea of the AFR, I will be able to do some good tuning of some base maps for different altitude ranges, and then just save them and have them on hand for when I feel like driving somewhere. But, when I get the 4Runner (late Aug) I just want to be able to drive it safely to AZ and back with some good seat of the pants feel (which shouldn't be hard, I'm upgarding from my little 3.0).

The tuning will come when I find a beater laptop on Ebay and get the gauges I need, probably around late Sept.

midiwall

The requirements are VERY low. I've running the FTC (and SMT) tuning software off of a _Mac_ G3 Powerbook under Windows 98 through an emulator! Not ideal, but it worked.

My tuning box is a Toshiba Satellite 4015CDT (PII 266mhz) running XP in 256meg.


Ahh, I thought maybe you got this idea from me babbling about it many times on the forum. Here's one post...

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...1&postcount=21

The short form is that Westach will seel direct, but I got great service at a great price from AirStuff.com.

(my server's a bit hosed, so the pics aren't showing up...)

Scottiac

Regarding the drive to AZ immediately after installing the URD, that's exactly what I did going from sea level (CA) to running around 7-9,000 feet in AZ.

2500 mile trip, mostly at altitude, and it ran smooth and strong the entire time. But since I haven't done the tranny work (VB) yet, I really babied the acceleration in the lower gears.

But oh man was it nice to finally be able to pass someone on those short "passing lanes" going uphill at 7,500 feet when the numbnuts you are trying to pass speeds up from 40 to 75. I was totally surprised and delighted to be able to breeze through 80mph with plenty of room to spare in that situation.

And this is all with the stock pulley; just the S/C and the URD kit.

mastacox

Perfect, you have the exact kind of gauge I was thinking about

I'm hoping it was relatively easy to install, yes?

mastacox

On another note-

What's up with the fact that the only transmission shops that do VB upgrades (that I've read about here) are on the east coast? Aren't there any ones closer? It seems like there would have to be some kind of hot rod shops in Texas or California that have done this kind of thing? Not that I have any problems with the guys in the east (actually they're probably the ones to go with since so many people here have used them), but shipping... ouch.

midiwall

This one fell off my radar...

I think what's happened is that while I'm "sure" (based on the law of averages) that there are shops on the west coast that can do this work, everyone keeps talking about IPT 'cause of his experience with our transmissions and the consistently positive results. No one wants to be a guinea pig with such an expensive process to find a west coast shop.

Shipping can be a real drag - I'm lucky enough now that since I have a donor tranny, I can ship slower and wait.

mastacox

Well, that makes sense. I also do not wish to be a guinea pig BTW...

So how's mailing off the spare VB you have anyway

Also- I'll be getting the VB Upgraded next year around April... If you have a spare VB still, maybe I could "borrow" it from you and use it for the upgrade (if it's in good condition) and ship you my stock one... Thatway, I could theoretically have zero down time... other than swapping VB's

Scottiac

Just FYI, level10, the "other" approved white meat, has VB cores, so you can ship slow, and have minimal down time. They are more expensive though.

Anyone have opinons (other than that) between one and the other?

midiwall

Yeah, me needer...


Well, this is currently an issue. I'm having "a moment" here where I'm wondering what John would charge to completely rebuild my original tranny plus do the VB upgrade.

My thinking is that the tranny I put into my truck had 75k on it to start with. There's no log to say HOW those miles were accumulated, but I have symptoms right now of something being... "off".

So... if I drop $800 (when it's all said & done) on a VB upgrade, and put that into a tranny that has issues, then what good did that do me? If I find that I could spend $2000 (random number) for John to have the whole tranny, then that could be a LOT better deal in the long run.

Dunno... I'm thinking about it, and I haven't talked to John to see what we're looking at for his cost, much less the cost of shipping a tranny coast-to-coast.


Actually, this isn't a totally new idea... There has been talk about someone stock piling either a set of VBs that have already been modified (in a couple of different "hit" strengths) or stock piling a set of stock VBs to use as swaps, then charging a small premium for the use of the loaner.

But in short... I wouldn't mind being a source for a stock loaner VB. I send the one I have, it gets done, gets returned to the real home, then the stock one from the pull gets returned to me. The logistics would be "simple", it's just a matter of me getting used to packing up the piece, and collecting ALL of the pieces back from the "new" stock one (springs and solenoids).

midiwall

Yeup... Gadget had some bad experiences with Level 10. For a while he had a "I NO LONGER RECOMMEND LEVEL 10" page up on GadgetOnline, but I think it's been pulled.

This is (generally) why no one mentions them around here anymore.

mastacox

Well I'll definitely keep that in mind, thanks dude!

AJatx

Why do you want a narrow-band A/F sensor? Just curious since the cheaper O2 sensors are generally narrow band (hence the slight fuel trims ECU makes using this sensor).

Where would you install the A/F sensor? I have a wideband sensor that is currently not in use (until I can resume my other project). Does the exhaust manifold have a bung for it?

A/F sensor is good for air fuel tuning and EGT sensor is good for ignition tuning (i.e. you can have great A/F ratios but terrible EGT readings if the ignition is off).

mastacox

My new 4Runner is a '98, which uses oxygen sensors... in 2000 or 2001 they changed from o2 sesors to a wide-band AFR sensor. You can only use a narrow-band AFR gauge with a regular o2 sensor, unless you get a custom installation (which is $$$$).

As for installation, as far as I know it just piggybacks on the o2 sensor's wire... I haven't gotten one yet so I dunno.

For tuning, I'm not an expert (yet) but a very lean condition can also cause huge EGT's. You can more efectively tune your engine for peak performance if you can read EGT, AFR, and possibly fuel pressure if you're not sure if your fuel pump can keep up.

midiwall

Like Brian said, EGT is a lot about fuel tuning as well. Lean = Lotso heat.


Ummm... Anything custom down those lines wouldn't be tons of money, but it wouldn't be real accurate. To watch a wide band with a narrow meter, you're looking to tame 0-5v down to .2-.8v. You can do that with an opamp circuit for about a buck, but you'll end up losing a lot of the resolution.


You're right - you just wire it in parallel.


My theory on a fuel pressure gauge is that they're a good _initial_ diagnostics tool, but once you know your pressure is okay, they're kinda' useless. i.e., if I know that a Walbro 190 can keep my FP in a good place, then I don't need to keep knowing that. A fuel pump won't usually slowly die - it's dead and gone when it goes, so I wou;dn't expect to see things start falling from 65psi to 60, then 50 then...