tomstin

With bits and pieces of information regarding TRDs 5 PSI (ping pulley) scattered about in multiple posts, I thought I would consolidate my experience in one post.

I installed the S/C about 15 months ago and have not invested in any fuel modifications. You can count on one hand how many times I have been above 4K RPMs. I’m easy on the truck and I notice the additional torque of the S/C in the middle RPM bands more than the horsepower on the high end.

When it’s cold and dry, the truck runs great. As soon as the ambient air temperature gets around 80 degrees, I notice the ping. It’s particularly noticeable at highway speeds when climbing a grade. It’s inconsistent, but noticeable and obviously not good for the engine.

With the automatic transmission, keeping the ECT on seems to allow the transmission to unlock the torque converter and / or downshift sooner which seems to help stay out of the ping zone.

I installed the TRD’s cooler thermostat 00602-17621-001 and cooler plugs NGK BKR6EXPB-11 when installing the S/C. I also installed two stage cooler plugs BCPR7ET later on with no noticeable difference. Summer ended, so did the ping, so I didn’t go any further until this spring.

I again contacted TRD. Their response to email is sporadic at best. Calling them at 800-688-5912 worked the best for me. Evidently there are two people at the sales desk and I think they pick and choose the email the feel like answering. TRD again suggested all of the above AND decreasing the coolant ratio to 30% or less. I thought they were crazy with this request! But, after a little research with Prestone and WaterWetter, I find out that the lower ratios are better at removing heat from the engine. A 30% ratio works out to roughly +4 degrees using the typical antifreeze tester. So, I followed their directions, reduced the coolant ratio and added WaterWetter. The ping seemed significantly better, but there are too many variables to consider this a fix.

Back to TRD to discover that if you installed the supercharger yourself, and it’s been more than a year since installation, you will need to pay for the pulley. Frustrated, but determined to try this pulley, I paid the $50 plus tax. Ordering the pulley is no simple task. The part number is 17620090. Unfortunately, it does not work in your favorite parts department’s computer. The parts representative has to call TRD directly to get it ordered.

Installation is a snap. A strap wrench would be helpful and afterwards I think it would be easiest to break the lock nut loose with the belt installed. I used a pipe wrench to hold the pulley, careful not to mar the surface. With the lock nut removed, a light tap on the back of the pulley and it slid off the keyway. Installation was simply sliding the new pulley on, installing the lock nut at 38 ft lbs (thanks Gadget) and installing the belt. The belt appears to be near its limit with the new pulley.

With the 5 PSI pulley, the S/C is quieter, a little slower off the line, but I don’t notice much of a difference through the rest of the power band. Again, I’m easy on the truck.

I may invest in a wide band air / fuel ratio meter in preparation for the fuel modification to come. This way I can see what is happening across the power band. I see this as a temporary work around...I wouldn’t call it a fix.

SLC Punk

So did the pulley help the ping at all?

I am installing my TRD thermostat this weekend that I bought last year. Thanks for the tip on the 30% coolant/water ratio. I will have to do that.

I am trying to find a TMC 1.1 to solve my pinging problem, but may have to go with the pulley if I can't find one for a good price.

naksukow

Anyone know the approx. freezing point of the 30% mix of coolant [toyota red] with distilled water?

tomstin

SLC Punk, too early to tell, maybe 250 miles on the pulley. It haven't got it to ping as yet.

naksukow, according to the chart Prestone sent me, +4 degrees. Using my antifreeze tester, I'm dead in the middle between 0 and 10...close enough. I did some math and decided I needed to drain about 5 quarts and replaced it with distilled water and hit it right on the nose!

SLC Punk

Thanks, Keep me updated.

Jeff B. in Michigan

Good day,

Let us know if you buy the wide band O2 meter. I am curious what your AFR is with the 5psi pulley.

I am running the 9+ pulley on my 1998 4Runner 5speed with no major fuel upgrades (just running BAP and split second box). With the stock pulley, I experienced slight ping under medium load but I could control it with no problem. With the smaller pulley I had a bit more ping than I was comfortable with so I bought the split second box so I could control the ping.

I am very happy with the performance of my set up… I have 120K miles on the truck and just ran a 14.89 at the track.

I have lots of data on my webpage relating to air to fuel ratio and the like… check it out if you wish.

http://N8RWS.COM

Catch you later…

Jeff B in MI

rwmorrisonjr

Tom or anyone else,

What does the larger pully do to help resolve the ping issue? I drive my truck in the same manner that you do, and don't notice the ping that much, so I haven't done any mods to the truck yet. I installed the SC myself last October, so TRD should supply the pully to me for free, correct?

It seems to me that all of the "fixes" that TRD comes out with for the SC are nothing more than bandaids to solve a general engineering issue with the stock fuel delivery system on the 3.4, which obviously wasn't designed with a SC in mind originally. Its only due to the ingenuity and resourcefulness of people like Gadget and other board members that these issues are able to be completely and correctly solved.

Jeff B. in Michigan

The larger pulley reduces the boost that the supercharger produces. Reducing the boost effectively reduces the conditions that are causing the ping. But... reducing the boost directly reduces the performance of the engine so there is an offset.

Actually, there are many factors that can cause ping. Fuel delivery and timing advance are two of the key factors.

My studies have proven that for at least my application which is a 1998 Supercharged 4Runner with 5 speed manual transmission, the stock fuel delivery system has no problem keeping up with the supercharger and stock pulley. I did experience slight ping with this set up but I could easily control it with proper selection of drive gear.

When I put the smaller pulley on the supercharger (this increased the boost pressure) the engine did ping to the point of concern. I added the Split Second FTC box (same one URD uses I believe) to control the timing advance.

FYI... I have achieved 109K Supercharged hard driven miles on my truck so far with zero engine problems. My definition of hard driven miles includes these conditions: 1)Daily driving to and from my workplace (60 miles each day), 2) Over 100 1/4 mile drag strip runs (best time = 14.89), 3) Hauling a 16' enclosed trailer which contains two Suzuki Drag bikes.

Take care...

Jeff B in MI

SLC Punk

According to Gadget, its a timing issue rather than a fuel issue. The fuel mods are to pull more power out of the engine. (from what I gathered anyway).

I think I am reading your post about the coolant mixture backwards. You are adding 70% coolant to 30% water correct? On the back of my Toyota coolant bottle, it says that the maximum protection and largest range of temp is at 70% coolant.


Jeff B. I will have to check out your site. Your 4Runner is running almost as fast as my Celica in the 1/4

tomstin

SLC Punk, you want 30% coolant, 70% water with WaterWetter for a balance of heat transfer and protection. In fact, if I understand the infomation correctly, 100% water with WaterWetter would do the best job at removing heat. But, then you have lubrication, corrosion and boil over issues in the summer and freezing in the winter.

Bottom line, there are a lot of variables; engines, ECUs, fuel, fuel system condition, temperature, humidity, elevation etc. for a solid evaluation with consistent data. As always, your milage may vary. At least we can share our experience.

"Experience unshared is knowledge wasted" - not my quote, but seems to fit!

SLC Punk

Ok 30% coolant and 70% water. Check
Now I need to find some water wetter. Its made by redline, right?

TRD thermostat is going in this afternoon!

tomstin

Just an update on this. The ping is greatly reduced, but not eliminated.

SLC Punk

That sucks that the ping is still there. I put the TRD Thermo with the 70/30 coolant and water wetter. Not much of a difference. I ended up buying a TMC 1.1

naksukow

If you can SLC Punk, try running 1 quart toyota red coolant and the rest distilled water with WW. Wonder if that would help for hot weather people.

CynicX

define the difference between ping and detonation.......with my WRX fuel had to be increased to keep up with the new turbos higher boost pressure vs the the stock turbo.....fuel effectively prevents det and keeps EGR temps within safe levers....detonation is from the fuel exploding pre spark due to high combustion chamber temps....adding more fuel keeps the temp lower (like a cutting torch), thus preventing det.....and to accomplish getting more fuel to keep up with the additional boost I needed to get higher flowing injectors and a more powerful Walbro fuel pump.....THEN I needed to modify the ECU to change fuel and air to obtain proper air/fuel ratios, plus the upgraded messed with timing (which i'm not really familiar with) the WRX has a pretty dumb computer, you need to reprogram if for everything......if you just upgraded the turbo and did nothing for fuel managment you could kiss you motor goodbye....once the EGR's exceeded a certain point the alumimun would start to melt, but not before you broke a rod or something else, it was bad news.....surf around www.nasioc.com .....some good info on blown motors....

but the real question is, is ping the same as det?.....if not just ignore all of the above...hehe

Gadget

The specific problem on these engines with the TRD blower is not fuel related. The engine is operating in closed loop when this occurs and the mix is maintained at 14.7:1.

You can dump all the fuel in you want and it will still ping. I have tried it. I have had it so rich it was beltching black smoke while pinging like crazy.

This specific problem which I call the High Gear/Low RPM-Ping (HG/LR-Ping) problem is an ignition timing issue. It generally occurrs below 3000 RPM under boost.The ignition needs to be retarded to supress the ping. In most cases only a couple of degrees of retard is needed to supress it. We have to apply this externally with some kind of linear controller because the ECU does not know the pinging is occuring.

The knock sensors are not used below 3000 RPM on this engine. Remember it was not intended by the designers of the engine or its engine control system to be a forced induction engine. We have bolted on an aftermarket supercharger and that completely changes the dynamics that the engine control system was designed for.

So, the only true fix, instead of band-aid fixes, is to retard the ingnition timing to supress the HG/LR-Ping.

Gadget

SLC Punk

I got my TMC 1.1 installed today. I tried and tried to make it ping but it wouldn't!

CynicX

doesnt that 7th injector kit help alot?

pfdaxe

G:

So are you stating we don't need your Fuel Mod kit? Just install a piggy-back computer to retard timing and that'll fix ping???

I've tried TRD t-stat, cooler plugs and all other band-aids with nooo less ping.

Gadget

There are two separate issues with the TRD supercharger. First is the high RPM lean out problem. That is what the larger injectors and fuel pump along with the fuel controller addresses.

The other is the HG/LR-Ping issue. That is not a fuel issue. At that engien speed and manifold pressuure that it occurs the stcok fuel system can supply alll the fuel the engine needs. The fix for that is retarding the ignition timing.

If your ONLY concern is the HG/LR-Ping and have absolutely no concern about the High RPM Leanout and its accociated engine damage, then no, you do not need fuel mods, you just need to retard the timing to supress the HG/LR-Ping.

On both of my trucks I have chosen to fix both problems and that is what our URD kit is geared for, a TOTAL solution.

Gadget