arielb1

I have a 94 4Runner 5speed, 110K miles. I hear a thunk noise on occassion when I pull from a parked position. It also occurs when I turn the wheel after it has been parked for awhile. Is there something I should grease around the wheel well? What could it be and how do I go about repairing it? I am fairly mechanically inclined, but also learning from others more experienced than I.

Thank you...for educating me. Good Karma to you.

Ariel

dragon564

Have you checked the steering stops.....That is a very common gripe on the toys normally get the noise when hitting the smallest of bumps at full turn R or L....google "toyota groan stopper bolt covers" or search here for more info.....

arielb1

No, I dont think it is the steering stop. Those creek with my truck. I apply a dab grease to the stop on a regular basis. Besides, these thunks are when I am at a dead stop with the steering wheel points straight ahead. The steering stops creeks occurs as I am turning at the widest point. Thanks for the suggestion. It did make me think.

Any more ideas...thanks all.

marko3xl3

I believe this is what you are looking for:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/slip-yoke-revisited-61453/

Marko

DaveInDenver

There are number of things that could clunk. The u-joints, the ring & pinion, ball joints or tie rod ends, propeller shaft carrier bearing, worn out motor mounts.

In my case, I got a pretty serious clunk when my carrier bearing was shot. I also used to get a bump when starting from a stop which is greatly reduced with the new gears, so my R&P was developing some slop I guess. My motor mount under the transfer case also clunked when it was tired and ready for retirement.

I'd first hit every zerk with grease on the u-joints, slip yoke and ball joints. Then give the front end the once over to make sure it's all OK. Then start checking anything that moves for either excessive wear or loose bolts.

ChickenLover

I'm betting one of your cv's is on it's way out. Take a close look at the boots. You may find a small tear that allowed the grease to escape. I only suggest this cause I'm having the same problem. Mine will 'pop' when the truck drops into gear or when I brake hard.

Lone4runner

would this be the same problem for a 99 4runner too? i have the same problem with th clunking noise when i turn. and are the in the same locations it doesnt look so for the 3rd gens. pics would be helpful please

arielb1

I am going to try this one first, well since I already replace the other cv and I havent replaced the other. Does the boot have to be torn for the CV to go out? How can I determine if the CV is broken other than a torn boot? Second, can someone describe how to determine if a ball joint needs replacing. Thanks for the advise. I now have a path to follow.

So many things that were mentioned like ring & pinion and tie rod ends that I dont know what they are. Soon enough I hope to learn every component.

Ariel

DaveInDenver

Axles can break and not split the boot, but Toyotas CVs are pretty decent and typically it's a split boot that lets dirt in and that's what actually ruins the CV. But, sure, they can wear out eventually. If you have manual hubs, then I would expect that the CV joints will last a long time (except for breakage while 'wheeling). With ADD, I guess one side could wear out much sooner than the other.

Raise each of the front wheels, one at a time, and torque on it. With your hands at noon and 6 o'clock, any feeling of looseness or clunking is most likely the ball joints. With your hands at 3 and 9 o'clock, looseness or anything is probably tie rod ends. In both cases, looseness could also be wheel bearings. This is not scientific, but can help figure out what might be worn out.

Do you have any steering pull, shimmy or vibration when driving the truck? If it's just a clunk but the truck otherwise seems OK, then it's most likely NOT tie rod ends or ball joints.

If there's no steering issue, then I do like the CV or maybe u-joints. Also take a look at the shocks and make sure their bolts are snug. If it seems like alignment or steering is wacky, then I would look at tie rod ends and ball joints a little closer.

Don't forget to just roll around on a creeper under the truck and push, pull and tug on everything and see if anything is loose. Could be as simple as loose exhaust or skid plate, who knows. If I am trying to diagnose a problem, just poking around usually finds something out of family. A new mark on my frame rail got me to looking at my idler arm. It had obviously impacted the frame and on closer inspection it sure enough had play in the shaft.

arielb1

Thanks to everyone for all of the help. Wheels are raised. Lots of play when my hands are at 3:00 and 9:00. No play between 12:00 and 6:00. No steering pull, minimal vibration. As I turn left and right going 35mph there is roughness or grinding sound during the turn. I hear occasional clunking while driving, sometimes when turning and also when going straight. No tear in the boots. Any suggestions?

Thanks Dave in Denver.

DaveInDenver

Yeah, don't forget that the front end will move with the wheels in air since you could be actually turning the wheels. I've talking about a loose feeling, not the wheels and steering components moving like you're turning. Make sense? Sort of a feel thing, imagine like if your lugs nuts are loose. That sort of clunky looseness, not the sweeping movement. You want to move the wheel back and forth with a quick, hard shake, like you're trying to wiggle it off the truck.

No pull, now I wouldn't guess that a feeling of looseness at 3 & 9 would not also have some steering issue. The grinding noise is interesting. Is the noise at full steering lock, or just sort of in the middle of the turn? Your front end will make the worst, horrible noise at full lock when the steering stops rub. Do you have manual hubs on the front? If not, then the CV joint advice is probably the best so far. If you do have manual hubs that are unlocked when it happens, probably not CVs. A vague sort of grinding could be wheel bearings, too. You might have a shop take a look at this. It certainly could be something relatively non-critical (like the CV or steering damper), but if your wheel bearings or something in the steering are worn out, it would end up being pretty bad if it fails.

arielb1

I am going to change the CV today. I changed the other boot at 100K miles so I think it makes sense that at 110K miles this one now needs changing. If that does not solve the problem, then I will look at wheel bearings.

Since I will have the wheel off to do the boot, is there other stuff I should automatically do at the same time? Greasing, other maintenance, etc?

DaveInDenver

What do you mean by the other boot? Are you changing both inner and outer on one side, just an inner or outer? My CV joints looked OK after 176K, but my inner boot split and threw grease all over. I used a Toyota rebuild kit, which included both inner and outer boots, new clamps and two tubes of grease, one for each joint. A complete kit to refresh your front axles.

When I service my front end, I grease all 4 ball joints, rub grease on the steering stops. I squeeze grease into the driveshaft about 2 times a year. I repack my wheel bearings about every year or two. I pull the hub covers off and look. When the wheel bearings seem dirty or the grease is contaminated, I do the nasty. I've only serviced the CVs that one time when the boot split. My steering components do not have zerk fittings, so there's not much service other than R&R those. Aftermarket parts sometimes do have grease fittings (like NAPA's I'm pretty sure), but Toyota tie rod ends, idler and pitman do not.

arielb1

I repacked the bearings when I did a brake job at 100k miles. How can I tell if the wheel bearings are shot? I am in the process of taking the cv boot assembly off now. Took the day off from work to deal with this.

I turned in the whole CV assembly and the shop gave me a new rebuilt one at 100k miles when I changed the driver side boot assembly. So if I changed the passenger side, I would follow the same procedure. I never learned how to repack my own CV.

My ball joint has a bolt on it. There is no zerk fitting.

I am in the process of taking out the CV assembly now.

Just spoke with the shop that rebuilds CVs. He said a cv needs replacing only if it makes noise during the turns "a clanking sound". Now I am wondering if it is the cv boot.

thank you

DaveInDenver

Oh, replacing the whole axle. Makes sense, only thing is to keep an eye on the new boots since I guess sometimes they can be lesser quality than the Toyota original. Nothing major, there. The CV guy is probably right, although he may also be thinking about a front wheel drive car, where the CV is always under power. In a 4WD truck with CVs, the axles sometimes don't spin or if you have something like ADD, then they spin but not under power. Without power, the CV generally won't make nearly as much noise unless it is absolutely toasted.

Wheel bearings can make noise. Also the front end can feel loose or make it hard to keep in alignment. Really, the only way to know for sure is to pull them out, clean them up and put an eye on them. Since you did this very recently, probably they're OK. Could be that they are loose, maybe the lock nut has backed off. You did remember to put the star washer back in and bend the ears down to keep the nuts from turning, right?

I've driven a couple of Toyota 4WDs with IFS, all with manual hubs, and the only way I knew I had CV problems were (1) grease all over with a split boot or (b) racket when in 4wd low (broken inner CV). Unlocked the hubs and hardly knew I even had CV axles in the front. I suppose that if you've broken a CV joint, it could make noise as the front end suspension cycles through it's travel.

If the new axle does not make a difference, I would really give the rest of the front end a good look, just to eliminate broken parts that could be dangerous.

BTW, you can take out those bolts out of the ball joints and thread in zerk fittings. I bought a box of Lincoln metric fittings at NAPA sometime ago and they fit great. That certain could not hurt to do, since the ball joints are probably one of the single most important parts on your truck. Seems so odd that such a rugged truck relies heavily on 4 sorta small ball joints and tire rod ends, but at least we're lucky that Toyota parts are pretty dang good.

arielb1

Finally got the axel out. Whew! It was a challenge. I will trade this in for a rebuilt one. I dont think this is my problem, but I might as well to eliminate it as a possibility.

I tried looking underneath the car pushing and pulling parts. I cant find any red flags.

I attached some pictures. I am assuming the picture with the four threads protruding is the ball joint. I will take out the bolt and place in a zerk fitting.

If this doesnt work, I will repack the bearings. Maybe the bearings are shot but will have a trusted local autostore evaluate them.

My truck is NOT manual hubs. I can go into 4X4 from inside. There is a stick inside the truck to switch me to 4X4.

Thanks for all your help Dave. It is very nice to have someone teach me since I dont have many friends who are mechanics. My father was no help either. He hated cars.

I cant figure out how to post a picture. Be back later when I trade in my axel.

arielb1

Dave,

In the process of changing the axel, I found two small tears in the upper ball joint. I took the cotter pin out and removed the nut at the bottom of the ball joint. However, the ball joint assembly will not come out. Do you know how it comes off? Do I hammer it off from the bottom?

regards

DaveInDenver

The side with the castle nut (where the cotter pin is) is pressed out. I have a OTC 7315 puller, looks like this:



Take off the nut, slide the flat section under the rubber boot and the bolt pushes the threaded part of the ball joint out of the spindle.

The other side of the upper ball joint is held on with 4 bolts. With the 4 bolts removed, it should come out pretty easy. Some gentle persuasion could be required, but shouldn't take anymore than a tap with a rubber faced hammer to get it loose.

arielb1

Great Dave....I was feeling really down cuz I could not get the ball joint off with the fork and hammer. In fact, I obliterated the ball joint and it would not budge off the arm. I was depressed that I would have to tear it all apart. Hope I did not destroy something else in the process of removing the ball joint. The auto parts store said I would have to remove the assembly and bring it to them. Luckily I have you to teach me.

Well, I am much happier after seeing the tool above. I will have to look for a website to order this part since no one local auto store knows of it. JcWhitney.com has one, but it looks cheap. Do you have a suggestion where I can order it? I found it on thetoolwarehouse.net for $37.95 plus $10 shipping. Maybe it will arrive before the weekend and it works for me. I will order it tomorrow morning if I dont hear from you. Dave, I checked out harborfreight.com and searched for ball joint. There are kits for ball joints. Is there any you would recommend that would take care of other situations. I have two hondas that I have to consider when purchasing tools. The picture above -OTC7315, has that worked for other vehicles as well?

I will be so happy when this is resolved. I have never been this depressed working on my truck. Thanks to you and all you have taught me. I have learned so much today. Regardless how down I am not being able to remove the ball joint, I am happy to learn new things and that I have met you. Thank you for teaching and mentoring me through this.

Sincerely

Ariel

DaveInDenver

No problem on the advice, hope some of it's been a little helpful. 'Course, haven't really figured out if the clunk is gone or not, eh?

There are a number of tools that would work to get the ball joint out. Banging on the ball joint is only going to booger up the ball joint. Maybe it will eventually pop loose, but I sort of doubt it. I think in the end you'd just end up peening the thread over.

Pickle forks work, but are a brute force approach and do typically tear the boot on the part. But they are quick and do the job, particularly if you're replacing the part anyway. Plus swinging a big hammer sort of makes you feel good.

I have a pickle fork kit similar to this:


The OTC pullers are good. I actually have a kit of front end tools, the OTC 6295.


It includes a few different pullers, but the 2 that end up being used the most are the 7314 and 7315. We have a Honda car, but I've not had to replace any steering or suspension parts on it yet. The OTC pullers worked on my FJ40 and have worked on a F*rd and J*ep, too.

7315:

7314:


I bought mine through Tool King here in Denver, but an Internet search will probably turn up better prices. You can get OTC/SPX tools at NAPA, which is also good for warranty.

There are other types of pullers that would work. I've used a Craftman gear puller to pop ball joints and tie rod ends out.


The OTC or similar tool works better mainly because it's a lot easier to line up, but if you're careful with a 2-jaw puller it'll work and you won't loose any teeth.