Is synthetic oil the cause of my lifter clatter at idle?
10-07-2004, 12:19 PM
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Is synthetic oil the cause of my lifter clatter at idle?
Here's the scenario. I have an '00 Tacoma X-cab with the 2.4/auto. I bought it used at 33K miles and it's now at 43K. At hot idle, in Park, with the A/C off, it clatters like a damn diesel. I have used Royal Purple 5-30 and either a Mobil 1 or Wix premium filter. The noise goes away upon shifting to drive or turning the A/C on, since both actions raise the idle speed.
I got fed up and took it to the dealer today since it's still under powertrain warranty. They looked it all over and the service writer told me it was the result of my using synthetic oil. It's thinner, he says. He claims the only way to eliminate the noise was to tear the engine down and replace the lifters. I said, "OK" and he said, but it's not a warranty item because your manual says use "only" 5-30 oil, not synthetic. I was going to make him prove it (my manual was at home), but decided I was dealing with a moron and asked for the service manager.
The manager was a little more knowledgable but still claimed it was the oil. He said the "hydraulic tensioners" don't work well with thinner oil. At least he understood my assertion that 5-30 is 5-30, regardless of regular or synthetic base. He agreed to pick up the cost of an oil change to test out their assertions. Since my synthetic is only 1500 miles old, we decided to wait until the next oil change to try it. He'll still pick up the cost of the change.
So, here's my challenge. If it turns out that the clatter is the result of synthetic oil, should I go back to dino oil to eliminate the hot idle clatter? I don't idle all that much. I like the idea of the synthetic for all of its other qualities, cooler temps, better lubricating at high RPMs, sludge resistance, etc. 99% of my driving is above idle speed.
I suppose another alternative is to run synthetic 10-30. I didn't ask that at the dealer because I hadn't had the chance to RTFM. The manual says 10-30 is acceptable, but 5-30 is "best."
What do y'all think.
Randy
PS: The one good thing about today's dealer visit is that I got a free car wash!!!
I got fed up and took it to the dealer today since it's still under powertrain warranty. They looked it all over and the service writer told me it was the result of my using synthetic oil. It's thinner, he says. He claims the only way to eliminate the noise was to tear the engine down and replace the lifters. I said, "OK" and he said, but it's not a warranty item because your manual says use "only" 5-30 oil, not synthetic. I was going to make him prove it (my manual was at home), but decided I was dealing with a moron and asked for the service manager.
The manager was a little more knowledgable but still claimed it was the oil. He said the "hydraulic tensioners" don't work well with thinner oil. At least he understood my assertion that 5-30 is 5-30, regardless of regular or synthetic base. He agreed to pick up the cost of an oil change to test out their assertions. Since my synthetic is only 1500 miles old, we decided to wait until the next oil change to try it. He'll still pick up the cost of the change.
So, here's my challenge. If it turns out that the clatter is the result of synthetic oil, should I go back to dino oil to eliminate the hot idle clatter? I don't idle all that much. I like the idea of the synthetic for all of its other qualities, cooler temps, better lubricating at high RPMs, sludge resistance, etc. 99% of my driving is above idle speed.
I suppose another alternative is to run synthetic 10-30. I didn't ask that at the dealer because I hadn't had the chance to RTFM. The manual says 10-30 is acceptable, but 5-30 is "best."
What do y'all think.
Randy
PS: The one good thing about today's dealer visit is that I got a free car wash!!!
Last edited by goldnrod24; 10-07-2004 at 12:20 PM.
10-07-2004, 12:42 PM
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I've got a new (used) 4runner, and i just had an oil change, my first with this vehicle, where they put in Kendall 10W30. I want to keep using the same oil, for the sake of consistency, but since my Yota didn't come with an owner's manual, I don't know what the reccommended grade is. I've also noticed engine chatter, very minor, but I'm not sure that it changed after the oil change. I live in Florida, and the truck has 147,000+ miles on it . . .
10-07-2004, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by X-AWDriver
What part of the country do you live since that can make a big difference? What are you temperature extremes?
Randy
10-07-2004, 01:05 PM
#5
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The 3RZ-FE 2.7L engine doesn't have lifters.
I was told the viscosity of my oil was creating a similar sound in the 1ZZ in my MR2 Spyder. I was running Mobil 1 0W-40 so I changed to Mobil 1 5W-30. Still no change, but it prompted my dealer to look harder. It came down to a faulty belt tensioner and it's mounting bracket external to the block, not an internal hydraulic tensioner. It was a $300 job done under warranty.
I don't have any experience with Royal Purple, but any synthetic I've seen is interchangeable with dino juice. But, I'd make a point to use a Toyota OEM filter during warranty. It sounds like your dealer is a bit picky.
Edit: I just checked Alldata. There's a TSB for an exhaust manifold heat shield rattle that could be related.
See #36, EG004-00
I was told the viscosity of my oil was creating a similar sound in the 1ZZ in my MR2 Spyder. I was running Mobil 1 0W-40 so I changed to Mobil 1 5W-30. Still no change, but it prompted my dealer to look harder. It came down to a faulty belt tensioner and it's mounting bracket external to the block, not an internal hydraulic tensioner. It was a $300 job done under warranty.
I don't have any experience with Royal Purple, but any synthetic I've seen is interchangeable with dino juice. But, I'd make a point to use a Toyota OEM filter during warranty. It sounds like your dealer is a bit picky.
Edit: I just checked Alldata. There's a TSB for an exhaust manifold heat shield rattle that could be related.
See #36, EG004-00
Last edited by BT17R; 10-07-2004 at 01:13 PM.
10-07-2004, 01:18 PM
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I just did a 90k oil change and had thed ealer do it, under waranty until 100k. I had them switch me out to Mobil1 synthetic since they offer it. They actually offer Mobil 1 and another synthetic brand as well. I haven't had any problems but I'm an 01 taco with the 3.4L v6. I am using their oil filter since they did the work.
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10-08-2004, 10:10 AM
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I bought a brand new Ford Bronco(Big Bronco) in '91. I changed the dino oil to synthetic at ~2K.
I had the truck in and out of the dealer continually until I sold it at 20K miles. There was a constant valve 'chatter' or 'clinking' that the dealer said was because of the synthetic.
If you change your dino oil every 3-4K miles I don't see the need for synthetic. I have never used synthetic after trading the Bronco and its irritating valve chatter.
Just my $.02.
I had the truck in and out of the dealer continually until I sold it at 20K miles. There was a constant valve 'chatter' or 'clinking' that the dealer said was because of the synthetic.
If you change your dino oil every 3-4K miles I don't see the need for synthetic. I have never used synthetic after trading the Bronco and its irritating valve chatter.
Just my $.02.
10-08-2004, 08:39 PM
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yes.
Yes, Royal Purple will make your valves tick. Switch to Mobil 1 or Redline. I've had this issue.
Originally Posted by goldnrod24
Here's the scenario. I have an '00 Tacoma X-cab with the 2.4/auto. I bought it used at 33K miles and it's now at 43K. At hot idle, in Park, with the A/C off, it clatters like a damn diesel. I have used Royal Purple 5-30 and either a Mobil 1 or Wix premium filter. The noise goes away upon shifting to drive or turning the A/C on, since both actions raise the idle speed.
I got fed up and took it to the dealer today since it's still under powertrain warranty. They looked it all over and the service writer told me it was the result of my using synthetic oil. It's thinner, he says. He claims the only way to eliminate the noise was to tear the engine down and replace the lifters. I said, "OK" and he said, but it's not a warranty item because your manual says use "only" 5-30 oil, not synthetic. I was going to make him prove it (my manual was at home), but decided I was dealing with a moron and asked for the service manager.
The manager was a little more knowledgable but still claimed it was the oil. He said the "hydraulic tensioners" don't work well with thinner oil. At least he understood my assertion that 5-30 is 5-30, regardless of regular or synthetic base. He agreed to pick up the cost of an oil change to test out their assertions. Since my synthetic is only 1500 miles old, we decided to wait until the next oil change to try it. He'll still pick up the cost of the change.
So, here's my challenge. If it turns out that the clatter is the result of synthetic oil, should I go back to dino oil to eliminate the hot idle clatter? I don't idle all that much. I like the idea of the synthetic for all of its other qualities, cooler temps, better lubricating at high RPMs, sludge resistance, etc. 99% of my driving is above idle speed.
I suppose another alternative is to run synthetic 10-30. I didn't ask that at the dealer because I hadn't had the chance to RTFM. The manual says 10-30 is acceptable, but 5-30 is "best."
What do y'all think.
Randy
PS: The one good thing about today's dealer visit is that I got a free car wash!!!
I got fed up and took it to the dealer today since it's still under powertrain warranty. They looked it all over and the service writer told me it was the result of my using synthetic oil. It's thinner, he says. He claims the only way to eliminate the noise was to tear the engine down and replace the lifters. I said, "OK" and he said, but it's not a warranty item because your manual says use "only" 5-30 oil, not synthetic. I was going to make him prove it (my manual was at home), but decided I was dealing with a moron and asked for the service manager.
The manager was a little more knowledgable but still claimed it was the oil. He said the "hydraulic tensioners" don't work well with thinner oil. At least he understood my assertion that 5-30 is 5-30, regardless of regular or synthetic base. He agreed to pick up the cost of an oil change to test out their assertions. Since my synthetic is only 1500 miles old, we decided to wait until the next oil change to try it. He'll still pick up the cost of the change.
So, here's my challenge. If it turns out that the clatter is the result of synthetic oil, should I go back to dino oil to eliminate the hot idle clatter? I don't idle all that much. I like the idea of the synthetic for all of its other qualities, cooler temps, better lubricating at high RPMs, sludge resistance, etc. 99% of my driving is above idle speed.
I suppose another alternative is to run synthetic 10-30. I didn't ask that at the dealer because I hadn't had the chance to RTFM. The manual says 10-30 is acceptable, but 5-30 is "best."
What do y'all think.
Randy
PS: The one good thing about today's dealer visit is that I got a free car wash!!!
10-09-2004, 04:05 AM
#12
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I have always used castrol 10w 40 and never had any problems. At the beginnig of this summer I decided to try out the synthetic brand of castrol. It seemed to make the valves chatter at idle and,like you said, it sounded like a diesel truck! I have since changed back to the regular dino oil and have had no diesel sounds since.
My buddy also tried the synth oil in his and couldnt stand the noise so he changed back to dino also. By the way, we are both running 22-Re motors.
My buddy also tried the synth oil in his and couldnt stand the noise so he changed back to dino also. By the way, we are both running 22-Re motors.
10-10-2004, 05:20 AM
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Synthetics will make a different noise because of the molecular structure is different from mineral oil. This in no way adds additional wear, its different harmonics. What you were fed with is BS! Its completely normal harmonic noise with synthetics. My 03 has made the harmonics of synthetic from the day I put it in at 1900 miles.
Everything including oils has its tradeoffs. Mineral oil will make the engine quieter, but doesn't offer the benefits of a synthetic.
Everything including oils has its tradeoffs. Mineral oil will make the engine quieter, but doesn't offer the benefits of a synthetic.
10-10-2004, 06:51 AM
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In my experience I had more noise while using "premium" oil filters compared to the stock toyota filter. Plus the oil pressure gauge was reading noticeably higher. So I swithced to the oem filter and the clatter got real quiet.
Those filters are doing such a dang good job of cleaning the oil but at the cost of putting more pressure on the system. Think of drinking a big gulp with a coffee stir stick. The oil is getting there but its having to work real hard and while the pressure before the filter is high its low on the other side from having to go through that premium filter.
So just swap out your filter with a stock one and put in a 1/3 to 1/2 quart of royal purple to top it off and see/hear what happens.
Those filters are doing such a dang good job of cleaning the oil but at the cost of putting more pressure on the system. Think of drinking a big gulp with a coffee stir stick. The oil is getting there but its having to work real hard and while the pressure before the filter is high its low on the other side from having to go through that premium filter.
So just swap out your filter with a stock one and put in a 1/3 to 1/2 quart of royal purple to top it off and see/hear what happens.
10-10-2004, 07:21 AM
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5w-30 is 5w-30...no matter what brand.
I've been running 0w-30 (Amsoil Series 2000) in my 2.7L for the past 30k miles or so...with zero problems. It runs a lot smoother than regular oil too (nope, I'm not a dealer
). The only way it could be an oil problem is if the oil was extremely low for an extended period of time. This probably could cause the type of damage they're talking about. 
Jim
I've been running 0w-30 (Amsoil Series 2000) in my 2.7L for the past 30k miles or so...with zero problems. It runs a lot smoother than regular oil too (nope, I'm not a dealer
). The only way it could be an oil problem is if the oil was extremely low for an extended period of time. This probably could cause the type of damage they're talking about. Jim
10-10-2004, 09:03 AM
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Try this. 
Should be available at your Toyota dealer. I`ve used it when my truck was doing the same thing as yours. It helped get rid of the the noise but I did eventually dig in and adjust my valve stem height to get rid of my idle clatter noise. This was on a 92 Toy pup. Give it a try and see if it goes away. 
Should be available at your Toyota dealer. I`ve used it when my truck was doing the same thing as yours. It helped get rid of the the noise but I did eventually dig in and adjust my valve stem height to get rid of my idle clatter noise. This was on a 92 Toy pup. Give it a try and see if it goes away.
Last edited by Jboy; 10-10-2004 at 09:05 AM.
10-10-2004, 11:53 AM
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Are the valve lifters even adjustble on the late model 2.4? The manual lists it as one of the service procedures required at the 4 year 48K service interval, but I got the impression that these no longer require periodic adjustment. IIRC, there's even a clearance amount listed on a little sticker under the hood. Hmmmm......
This is a L4-2438cc 2.4L DOHC (2RZ-FE) MFI, by the way.
Thanks to all who have replied thus far.......
Randy
This is a L4-2438cc 2.4L DOHC (2RZ-FE) MFI, by the way.
Thanks to all who have replied thus far.......
Randy
10-10-2004, 04:59 PM
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when i had tcr install my new engine i started being more careful about what oil and filter i used just to make sure i get as much life out of my investment as possible. I had to run for at least 5,000 miles before i switched to synthetic but i made sure it was more like 10,000. I went from using valvoline 20w50 dino to mobil1 15w50 and always used a toyota oem filter (;luckily i got them on sale at the dealer in sets of four. The 15w50 is the most recent and thickest type mobil1 offers. I love it, it is very viscous and thick for ultimate protection in hot climates like Arizona and lasts longer and lubricates much better than the dino. I noticed a much smoother idle and consistent sound from the engine ever since the first crank.
maybe you should step up the weight a bit or try mobil, i have a sneaky suspicion about the castrol syntec and its quality. plus i doubt you want to go back to using dino oil once you have made the swap.
maybe you should step up the weight a bit or try mobil, i have a sneaky suspicion about the castrol syntec and its quality. plus i doubt you want to go back to using dino oil once you have made the swap.
10-10-2004, 05:10 PM
#19
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I swapped to Royal Purple today. I have 137K on the ole ticker. The biggest improvement I've seen so far is how cool my hood is after running the engine. It used to get pretty hot, now it is cool to the touch.
I'm not noticing any additional clatter or anything. Sounds pretty smooth still runs nice.
I'm not noticing any additional clatter or anything. Sounds pretty smooth still runs nice.
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