stuck on Cal. CAT and EVAP in Oregon
10-31-2010, 09:51 AM
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stuck on Cal. CAT and EVAP in Oregon
Hello, I ran a search for "california emission 4runner catalytic converter replacement for another state" but it returned nothing so I am starting this thread. I hope it's ok.
I've been driving around with the check engine light on for two years after the dealer supposedly fixed it to pass the smog test - then it came back on a month later.
I live in Oregon and I have a 2002 4runner with 168,000 miles with P0420 and EVAP codes. I checked for exhaust leaks, replaced the gas cap and replaced the rear O2 sensor (I figured it was about time anyway).
I went through almost three tanks of gas before OBD2 would monitor the catalyst. P0420 came back at "pending" with EVAP codes as well. The rear O2 sensor seems to be in sync, switching values with the front sensor.
Finally, the check engine light is back on with a P0420 DTC and P0420, P0440 and P0446 pending, Evap seems impossible to reset.
I guess my main $2500 question is: Do I have to replace the converters with OEM or 50 state legal converters because my 4runner is a Cal emissions vehicle and the ECM will indicate trouble codes with anything but California converters?
I'm cash poor but my credit is good but i'd rather not add more debt.......
Is there a workaround?
-edit- I should add that one day my runner lost power on the freeway. It would idle but when I gave it gas, it wouldn't go. I turned off the car then restarted and it was normal. I have broken air box mounts, top and bottom with a small crack/hole in it. I have secured the box with zip ties so it won't move around much. I once moved the box to see how loose it was and the car again lost power. Those were the only two times this occurred.
I've been driving around with the check engine light on for two years after the dealer supposedly fixed it to pass the smog test - then it came back on a month later.
I live in Oregon and I have a 2002 4runner with 168,000 miles with P0420 and EVAP codes. I checked for exhaust leaks, replaced the gas cap and replaced the rear O2 sensor (I figured it was about time anyway).
I went through almost three tanks of gas before OBD2 would monitor the catalyst. P0420 came back at "pending" with EVAP codes as well. The rear O2 sensor seems to be in sync, switching values with the front sensor.
Finally, the check engine light is back on with a P0420 DTC and P0420, P0440 and P0446 pending, Evap seems impossible to reset.
I guess my main $2500 question is: Do I have to replace the converters with OEM or 50 state legal converters because my 4runner is a Cal emissions vehicle and the ECM will indicate trouble codes with anything but California converters?
I'm cash poor but my credit is good but i'd rather not add more debt.......
Is there a workaround?
-edit- I should add that one day my runner lost power on the freeway. It would idle but when I gave it gas, it wouldn't go. I turned off the car then restarted and it was normal. I have broken air box mounts, top and bottom with a small crack/hole in it. I have secured the box with zip ties so it won't move around much. I once moved the box to see how loose it was and the car again lost power. Those were the only two times this occurred.
Last edited by ksl; 10-31-2010 at 11:39 AM.
10-31-2010, 12:15 PM
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There were no Cali. emissions 4Runners in 2002. The two-cat system, used in the Cali. versions in '99 and '00, was adopted in all 50 states in 2001 and beyond. In any case, any car, per Federal law, and the laws of pretty much any state that tests emissions, requires that cars adhere to the standards they were manufactured to. There are still CARB-legal parts (including OEM) and not CARB-legal parts, these last legal for sale only outside California. You can certainly use such parts, including cats, in Oregon. They are supposed to perform to spec, but there are plenty of reports that suggest some don't. Getting a reputable shop who will commit to get you through the emissions test is a good approach to cover this.
Another 'workaround' approach is the URD Sensor Simulator--it is not legal, and is currently shown as 'out-of-stock', but it has worked for many.
I can't say based on your post whether your cats are in fact bad. The intake leaks, especially if post MAF sensor, could mess up all kinds of things. The rear sensor being 'in sync' is a bad thing, as good cats will level out the signal. Before I will ever replace my cats, I would have a really good trusted tech with advanced equipment declare them dead (unless they were plugged or the honeycomb was obviously in pieces, etc.). I would never trust a dealer to do that, as I have seen too many posts where stealers were way too quick on the trigger to replace cats.
Another 'workaround' approach is the URD Sensor Simulator--it is not legal, and is currently shown as 'out-of-stock', but it has worked for many.
I can't say based on your post whether your cats are in fact bad. The intake leaks, especially if post MAF sensor, could mess up all kinds of things. The rear sensor being 'in sync' is a bad thing, as good cats will level out the signal. Before I will ever replace my cats, I would have a really good trusted tech with advanced equipment declare them dead (unless they were plugged or the honeycomb was obviously in pieces, etc.). I would never trust a dealer to do that, as I have seen too many posts where stealers were way too quick on the trigger to replace cats.
Last edited by TheDurk; 10-31-2010 at 12:20 PM.
10-31-2010, 12:59 PM
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The intake leak is in my airbox. I do have a rattle somewhere when I hit a bump or pothole. It sounds somewhat like metal on metal brake noise but i'm not using the brakes - it just rattles momentarily. It's loud when driving next to a wall. No one has been able to locate the noise - so far.
Yesterday I had a muffler shop pound on my CATs for rattle and look for exhaust leaks. They couldn't find any signs. They said they can replace the CATs with weld on only converters for $200 each or if I wanted OEM it would be much more.
The rear O2 is new. I don't know enough to check anything else. I do have a software based OBD2 which i've read will save me money. So far, it's not helping.....
Two years ago, the dealer got me through emissions but it only lasted a month. That's all I cared about but it's time again! In fact, i'm a month late now.
I have a hard time trusting any mechanic - especially since the economy is bad and I have a lot of personal experiences and seeing others grossly overcharged or paying for something they didn't need.
Yesterday I had a muffler shop pound on my CATs for rattle and look for exhaust leaks. They couldn't find any signs. They said they can replace the CATs with weld on only converters for $200 each or if I wanted OEM it would be much more.
The rear O2 is new. I don't know enough to check anything else. I do have a software based OBD2 which i've read will save me money. So far, it's not helping.....
Two years ago, the dealer got me through emissions but it only lasted a month. That's all I cared about but it's time again! In fact, i'm a month late now.
I have a hard time trusting any mechanic - especially since the economy is bad and I have a lot of personal experiences and seeing others grossly overcharged or paying for something they didn't need.
Last edited by ksl; 10-31-2010 at 01:08 PM.
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