!!Speedy's Supercharger Thread!!

[Speedy]

For those that don't want to read through umpteen pages of thread, simply click the banner to see the end result.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, Midiwall made a good suggestion that I quit spamming the site with all my questions individually and start one centralized thread, so here it is. If you wanna follow my progress, subscribe here. I'm extremely anal, and research everything, and document most things with pictures, so I'll have quite a bit of info by the time everything is complete. So far I've found out that you can't just bolt a SC on a 3.4L and off ya go, even though TRD claims you can when you call them and even in the installation manual's FAQ states the same. You need some type of fuel modification to keep up with all the air the SC crams into the motor, and possibly some type of timing adjustment as well to avoid high gear / low RPM ping (HG/LRPM). I'm going to use URD's 7th injector kit for my fueling solution as it is a more complete kit which includes an upgraded fuel pump (Walbro 190), two step cooler spark plugs, 170 degree thermostat, additional injector controller with timing control, add'l injector, and tuning software over TRD's 7th injector. It's also $400 less expensive and URD's support has been really good in my initial research. They also offer a full fuel upgrade kit that includes 6 additional injectors if your so inclined to go that route. I chose the 7th as it's easier to tune and setup. You'll also need some type of transmission upgrade if it's an automatic. IPT (www.importperformancetrans.com) is the suggested place to have the work done. It involves making some top secret modifications to the valve body to make for firmer shifting and quicker shifting. John at IPT is a regular on this board and can custom taylor the modification to suit your needs. As an example I don't want neck snapping shifts, just enough to protect the clutches in the tranny from getting eaten up by the SC's add'l power. He said that is completely doable. You can either drop the VB yourself, which from my reading seems easy enough, but quite messy, or you can find a local tranny shop to take it out for you. You then mail it to NJ to IPT's shop, they do the work, and mail it back the next day. The cost for the VB work is $575 at the time of this writing, then you need to add on shipping which can be cheap or expensive depending on how fast you want it back. You should also add in a transmission cooler as they're cheap insurance. Tru-Cool seemed to be the best bet as it's a low pressure drop design allowing the fluid to bypass the auxiliary cooler in cold weather until the fluid reaches operating temperatures. Tru-cool model 4454 is the one I intend to purchase as it will easily fit the space available on the front of th vehicle. Next there are gauges to consider. I personally want to be able to monitor some of the vehicle's vitals to head off any problems that could arise. I am going to go with a wide band air fuel ratio gauge (AFR), transmission temperature gauge since my 2002 4Runner is an auto, and a boost gauge just for fun. This is where the anal side of me really came in to play. I searched for about 2 weeks to find gauges that would compliment my interior, match the stock gauges, and not break the bank. What I decided on was an LC-1 wide band controller from Innovate and a custom made DB gauge. At the time of this writing Innovate only offers red or blue DB gauges with black bezels made by Nordskog so I called Nordskog directly to see if I could get green LEDs in one of their AFR gauges designed to work with Innovate's LC-1. Nordskog was very helpful and willing to work with me and said they could do that no problem, and could even make it with a silver bezel instead of black if I wanted. I decided to go with the silver bezel to match Autometer's Sport Comp series gauges which I plan to use for tranny and boost monitoring. The Autometer gauges come with green bulb sleeves to make the backlight green to match my 2002's interior lighting. I plan on mounting these three gauges over the stereo in the DIN slot left by my replacing the factory double DIN stereo with a Pioneer single DIN unit. There's a possible issue with the throttle by wire (TBW) throttle bodies, but my research found that this occurred with about 50/50 regularity on normally aspirated (NA) and SC'd (supercharged) vehicles. TBW first appeared on 2002 4Runners and 2003 Tacomas. In tons of reading I only found Tacomas to have had this problem, but that's not definitive. The fix requires replacing the throttle body as the small sensor that fails is not available separately. Throttle bodies cost $600 to $1000 depending on where you buy them at the time of this post. That's it for today. I'll put in updates as I make progress. I've got the LC-1 and DB gauge on the way and will have the wide band bung welded into the exhaust by a local exhaust shop (before the catalytic converters). Then I'll monitor AFRs on my stock truck to compare to after the SC is installed. I plan on doing the following: Monitor gas mileage with 87 octane fuel - complete Result = 19.66 MPG with a 60/40 Hwy/City consistent route for 1 week Monitor gas mileage with 93 octane fuel - complete Result = 21.05 MPG with the same 60/40 Hwy/City consistent route for 1 week Install AFR gauge and monitor stock AFRs for a week with 93 octane fuel. complete Result = 14.7 cruising and 10.2 WOT Install tranny temp gauge and monitor tranny temps as stock. complete Result = 180* - 200* F Install SC and monitor gas mileage, AFRs, and tranny temps for one week to determine what is really needed on my truck. complete Result = tranny runs hotter at about 220* F, AFRs are still 14.7 cruising and 10.2 WOT, gas mileage less if I give it a lot of go pedal, the same if I just cruise around. Install Walbro 190 fuel pump included in URD's 7th injector kit to see how that single upgrade affects AFRs for one week. complete Result = My vehicle did not need the Walbro 190 pump. Install remaining components of URD 7th injector kit and tune complete Result = A more torquey and smoother accelerating SC'd 3.4L with NO ping. Install 2.2" SC pulley to gain add'l grunt and re-tune. complete Result = More power and throttle response. If I can find a decent dyno shop in my area, I may even do dyno runs as stock, SC'd, SC'd with 7th injector, and finally SC'd 7th Injector and 2.2" pulley depending on cost. Update - I had trouble finding a good dyno shop so I'm just going to go forward with all upgrades then do a single run. I know from dynoing my 1999 TRD Tacoma 4x4 that the 3.4L put out 140 RWHP so I have a base to compare the 4Runner to. Update - Had the dyno performed and put down 240 RWHP and 259 RWTQ. Mods are TRD SC, URD 2.2" Pulley, URD 7th Injector Kit, STOCK FUEL PUMP, deck plate mod, ISR mod, and tuned. I'll also probably start a sub site on my motorcycle web site detailing the modification process as I kind enjoy documenting this kind of stuff. complete www.hooliganbiketech.net/sportrunner

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[mt_goat]

Subscribed! Look forward to more

[midiwall]

Originally Posted by Speedy

You'll also need some type of transmission upgrade if it's an automatic. IPT (www.importperformancetrans.com) is the suggested place to have the work done. It involves making some top secret modifications to the valve body to make for firmer shifting and quicker shifting. John at IPT is a regular on this board and can custom taylor the modification to suit your needs. As an example I don't want neck snapping shifts, just enough to protect the clutches in the tranny from getting eaten up by the SC's add'l power. He said that is completely doable.

Ummm... When I talked to The Johns (there are two of them) they both told me that they do NOT custom tailor the VB work. In fact, they never have. The story of being able to choose on a scale from 1-10 is actually a myth.

The only thing that they'll do if tweaked is to set it up for Soccer Mom's grocery getter which becomes a real soft shift, but yet doesn't slip.

The shift I have isn't neck snapping, but it's got a good kick to it. You KNOW the tranny's locked up.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Subscribing Here.. Looking forward to it.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by midiwall

Ummm... When I talked to The Johns (there are two of them) they both told me that they do NOT custom tailor the VB work. In fact, they never have. The story of being able to choose on a scale from 1-10 is actually a myth.

The only thing that they'll do if tweaked is to set it up for Soccer Mom's grocery getter which becomes a real soft shift, but yet doesn't slip.

The shift I have isn't neck snapping, but it's got a good kick to it. You KNOW the tranny's locked up.

I just talked to one of the Johns two weeks ago and he told me once he received my VB we could go over options. I told him I wanted to keep the truck comfortable to drive and not snap me back every time it shifted and he said that there are options and we could go over them when he got my unit, to just drop a note in the box to call me when received. The 1-10 thing was never mentioned, just that there were options he could work with to get me what I was looking for.

I've seen some posts that people had to put the tranny in "1" in stop and go traffic to keep from being bucked around during low throttle pressure shifts. I'd like to avoid that type of scenario personally.

[Speedy]

Is there any such thing as a nose drive support bracket for the 2nd Gen black SC? I was browsing Ebay and saw a SC for sale and the seller had something in there about a nose drive support bracket. I think searched here and saw some posts 2 or 3 years ago where Gadget was talking about having one made. I went to Gadget's site and the link where he talks about that no longer works.

So what's the story? Is it needed or ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRD-S...QQcmdZViewItem

[mt_goat]

Gadget originally thought there might be a weak link in the way the supercharger bolts down after TRD went to the self-adjusting tension pulley design. He modified the original pulley bracket design so he could keep that extra support but still use the new self-adjusting design. The original TRD design did supported the nose better, but removing the support hasn't really turned out to be a problem that I can tell. After all these years of those blowers in use I haven't heard of even one case where the supercharger has ripped out the mounting bolts from the intake manifold. I've even seen one guy that was running with a bolt or two missing and he didn't have a problem either.

BTW TRD does not sell those older style pulley brackets anymore so if you are really concerned about the SC support you'll have to fab one up yourself. Years ago Gadget had talked about having one made for URD to sell, but I suspect he decided there really wasn't a need for it, other than to calm the fears of us anal types.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by mt_goat

Gadget originally thought there might be a weak link in the way the supercharger bolts down after TRD went to the self-adjusting tension pulley design. He modified the original pulley bracket design so he could keep that extra support but still use the new self-adjusting design. The original TRD design did supported the nose better, but it removing the support hasn't really turned out to be a problem that I can tell. After all these years of those blowers in use I haven't heard of even one case where the supercharger has ripped out the mounting bolts from the intake manifold. I've even seen one guy that was running with a bolt or two missing and he didn't have a problem either.

Cool, one less thing to worry about then. Someone was running with bolts missing...YIKES. I just don't see how people do stuff like that.

[gilby4runner]

Subscribed.... i am near nashville, if you need any help give me a shout. I would love to see the whole process

[mt_goat]

Originally Posted by Speedy

Cool, one less thing to worry about then. Someone was running with bolts missing...YIKES. I just don't see how people do stuff like that.

Yeah evidently it arrived missing a bolt or two and he wasn't sure if it was needed or not.

[midiwall]

Originally Posted by mt_goat

Yeah evidently it arrived missing a bolt or two and he wasn't sure if it was needed or not.

fwiw... during the rebuild something happened to the threads on my intake manifold where that super-long 10mm bolt goes.

We cleaned 'em up and re-tapped them, but couldn't get enough meat to grip the bolt. I've gotta get a helicoil in there... so technically I'm running without any tension on that bolt right now.

[Speedy]

I'm about to purchase the rest of my gauges. I'm going to use the Autometer Sport Comp series as they are reasonably priced and match the stock dash pretty well, and come with green bulb covers (again to match the dash). I really considered the Nexus gauges as they're VERY cool, but can't justify $600 in gauges.

In the Sport Comp series an electric boost gauge is available with a MAP sensor. It's about 4x the cost of the mechanical boost gauge at $179 from summit. Is this something that's really necessary or is a mechanical just fine?

Electric with MAP
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Mechanical
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

I'll be ordering a mechanical tranny temp gauge at the same time. There's an option to get an adapter to attach this tranny temp gauge to the hard line coming out of the tranny. Anyone gone that route? Seems you have to cut the hard line and splice this adapter in with included compression fittings. Anyone got other ideas?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

[midiwall]

Originally Posted by Speedy

In the Sport Comp series an electric boost gauge is available with a MAP sensor. It's about 4x the cost of the mechanical boost gauge at $179 from summit. Is this something that's really necessary or is a mechanical just fine?

The boost port on the back of the SC is there for just this purpose. There's no reason to use an electronic gauge - besides, you can't get a sensor _after_ the SC...

In fact, $25 will get you a decent mechanical gauge...

http://www.gaugepods.com/gaugegear.html

I run a previous gauge that he offered and it's been fine.

What're you doing about EGT?

[mt_goat]

Well I went with the mechanical boost gauge but used an electric temp gauge.

Here's my trans temp sender, its tapped into the rubber cooler line as close to the hard line as possible (before coolers):

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by midiwall

The boost port on the back of the SC is there for just this purpose. There's no reason to use an electronic gauge - besides, you can't get a sensor _after_ the SC...

In fact, $25 will get you a decent mechanical gauge...

http://www.gaugepods.com/gaugegear.html

I run a previous gauge that he offered and it's been fine.

What're you doing about EGT?

I've checked with a professional tuner and his advice was to skip the EGT gauge. He said that as long as AFRs are in line and I have a permanently installed AFR gauge, then the EGT was overkill. He said back in the day people used EGTs to tune with as wideband gauges were very expensive but since they've come down in price hardly anyone uses EGTs anymore.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by mt_goat

Well I went with the mechanical boost gauge but used an electric temp gauge.

Here's my trans temp sender, its tapped into the rubber cooler line as close to the hard line as possible (before coolers):

Where'd that fitting come from? Custom job from hardware store parts? Also, why an electric tranny temp? I called Autometer to ask how the mechanical works, and they told me the line is filled with ether that moves the temp needle in the gauge and that no dangerous chemicals were routed to the cab.

[mt_goat]

Originally Posted by midiwall

fwiw... during the rebuild something happened to the threads on my intake manifold where that super-long 10mm bolt goes.

We cleaned 'em up and re-tapped them, but couldn't get enough meat to grip the bolt. I've gotta get a helicoil in there... so technically I'm running without any tension on that bolt right now.

Your helicoil isn't that bad is it? I know I don't trust them as much as the original threads but I'd trust them enough to torque to spec which is usually pretty conservative torque. Hell some people claim they are even stronger than the original but I don't go that far. I like to insert them with a little red loctite.

[mt_goat]

Originally Posted by Speedy

Where'd that fitting come from? Custom job from hardware store parts?

Yeah that's the Ace hardware custom job.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by midiwall

besides, you can't get a sensor _after_ the SC...

I'll go with the mechanical boost, but what do you mean you can't get a sensor after the SC? I took a look at the install docs for that electric boost gauge, and basically instead of the line going straight from the SC to the gauge, it goes through a MAP sensor first, then an electric connection to the gauge?

http://www.autometer.com/productPDF/0598A.pdf

[midiwall]

Originally Posted by mt_goat

Your helicoil isn't that bad is it?

I haven't put one in yet... When I said "cleaned up", I actually meant just "cleaned up". It looked like something had mashed down the top of the manifold and thus partially covered the hole. We cleaned that out, ran a tap through it and then test fit the bolt. Once we got the SC on, we couldn't grab enough meat with the bolt to really torque it down.

We actually had great luck using a helicoil elsewhere on the engine... I like 'em.

Originally Posted by Speedy

I'll go with the mechanical boost, but what do you mean you can't get a sensor after the SC? I took a look at the install docs for that electric boost gauge, and basically instead of the line going straight from the SC to the gauge, it goes through a MAP sensor first, then an electric connection to the gauge?

Ahh... okay, weird. I though that you might have been trying to use a boost gauge meant for a turbo application where you could put a sensor into the pipe after the turbo.

Ummm, I still wouldn't spend the money on the electronic gauge. If you're really itching to spend that much cash, then agree with my disagreeing with your tuner contact and put in an EGT.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by mt_goat

Yeah that's the Ace hardware custom job.

So why electric on the tranny temp gauge over mechanical?

[midiwall]

Originally Posted by Speedy

So why electric on the tranny temp gauge over mechanical?

Dale may have a different reason, but the last thing I want the possibility of leaking into the cab is 230* tranny fluid under pressure.

...same goes for oil pressure gauges.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by midiwall

Dale may have a different reason, but the last thing I want the possibility of leaking into the cab is 230* tranny fluid under pressure.

...same goes for oil pressure gauges.

There's no hot fluid going to the gauge. Autometer uses Ether in a capillary that goes to a bulb that's placed in contact with the fluid. The ether in the line moves the needle on the gauge. Worse case scenario you pinch the capillary and .0001 oz of Ether evaporate into the atmosphere. Knowing that does it change your opinion?

[midiwall]

Crap.. I'm 0 for 2 in here. Time to go back to work!

[mt_goat]

Originally Posted by Speedy

So why electric on the tranny temp gauge over mechanical?

Gadget had mentioned something about not "running pressure lines into the cab" here: http://www.gadgetonline.com/Gauges.htm and I had probably heard some myth about smelling the oil through the line or something.