JamesD

Here is my plan. I read about using different AFM's to increase power on our 3.0's. I read about the Mass air thread as well. We can all agree that the AFM is the main restriction causing poor power. With the mass air opening up the restriction and having better fuel tables this should increase everything across the board. The only downside on this mod is cost. Read on.

Now the 3.0's firing order is 123456. Now GM has the 2.8/3.1 with the same firing order as so does other companies like the Chrysler 3.0. My plan is using some of the harness, sensors and computers out of these junkyard vehicles. Now most vehicles have sensors the use a 5 volt scale. Meaning 0-5v they operate with. Example, a throttle position sensor on our trucks use 0-5v with a reference of 5v. So does GM and Chrysler. What I'am trying to do is use whatever sensors I can from Toyota that are already on the 3.0 and splice the harness to the junkyard one. I think the biggest problem is going to be ignition since the GM 2.8/3.1 FWD uses distribuless but the trucks use a distributor but are throttle body and the FWD are multiport like ours. Chrysler 3.0 uses speed density and a distributor but the distributor uses an optical sensor in the distributor to act as a cam/crank sensor. This will not work for us. We need to use something with an A/C generator like that of our Toyota's.

What I need is anyone to list any non AFM cars, foreign or domestic that has a 6cyl firing order of 123456 and is multiport FI. What I also need is the operating values of our 3.0 sensors, all of them, TPS, coolant temp etc. etc. and a wiring diagram of the computer for the sensors and the transmission. This could work and it could be cheap for the most part. If I get the values of the sensors then I can match them up with the GM/Chrysler ones. Now their is going to be obstacles like people with A/T transmissions like myself. One area is the OD sensor on the back of our intakes. Well we would have to probably ground out that wire and manually push the button for OD for cold drivability.

Anyone game? All I need is info. I will do everything else.

James

celica

What about the setup from the 3.4 toyota - would the volume diference make that big of a change?? or is it still the AFM - unsure on this??

node

Thats a lot of headaches there. I think celica is right, you should look into using the parts off of the 3.4L The crank sensor and cam sensor could easily be retrofit to the 3vz (should be able to swap oil pump housings) and you could retune it with a SAFC. Everything should work though you would have a lower redline I think?

Why not get a conversion kit that has a converter that translates hotwire singnal to AFM signal. You could even use that to adjust the mix.

Regardless of how you redo the system you are going to have to retune

JamesD

Cost and availabilty? That is what I'am aiming for. I thought of the 3.4 myself but how many you see in the junkyard that you can pull? Yeah junkyards have them but they want to sell you everything and they wont pull off motor parts unless you buy the whole engine. I would assume cost of a harness, computer and other parts you need is going to be expensive. Not saying it would work and probably would be the best but the problem is what I stated above.

James

JamesD

Also my method you wouldn't have to retune anything. The volumetric efficiency would be roughly the same so would be the rev limiter.

James

celica

My thought was just the MAF out of the 3.4. I don't know about what voltage the MAF reads and how it compares to the 3.0 computer setup, but if you were having approx the same voltage readings with less restriction then any minor differences could be picked up by the O2 sensor on the wayout. obvioulsy this wouldn't work if the voltage ranges are dramatically different. Does anybody have the reading ranges for these two engines?

edit: OK i think I just came full circle into the same mod that is being worked on in the other thread for $500??? Did I. Sorry I am sick & not thinking totally straight.

JamesD

Yes you did Matt Trust me I'am all for the mass air mod but it is the cost. Dollar for HP for the mass air mod isn't worth it for me. If you have the extra dough, then go for it. I'am waiting for dyno results as well. I hope whoever is doing the mass air mod comes through. My way is a cheap do-it-yourself junkyard mod. Everyone likes junkyard mods cause they are cheap and plentiful.

James

Babypig

what about the air sensor off the 3vzfe(camry). This may have been asked and answer ten ways till tuesday, so I may be suggesting something that has already been beat to death. If so, carry on with my apologies.

Toysrme

I don't always mean to try to hijack, or rain on yalls AFM parades, but come on give the AFM upgrade a break!

(3vz-fe won't work. It runs a backwards scale for who knows what reason. No-worries.)
You can get 10bhp out of *any* stock toyota just by not tuning it so horribly conservative.
That means any type of AFM, MAF, MAP swap needs to make at LEAST 10bhp to off-set anything a basic piggyback could do via fuel tuning. Like I say I don't have a 3vz-e, but until yall find a way to make *substantially* more power (FE heads, or custom turbo/supercharger) You will have 0 power to gain stemming from a larger AFM. While any power seemingly "made" from it, is nothing more than correcting the poor factory tuning.


Bumpin Yota was trying to do the large AFM swap by using the idle by-pass & AFM cog to try to get them in the same range. Maybe someone could re-visit that with a piggyback.











Open you AFM's & lean them out. If you don't have pinging, play with your ignition timing also. obd-I does not correct open-loop mode & is fairly slow at closed-loop changes - hell small changes like an AFM sometimes not ever touched - even tho they do change closed-loop slightly. (Where OBD-II would go anal & tune it out asap)

On a 3vz-fe it works like this. (Tighten cog = leaner, loosen cog = richer)


Before attempting you need to paint, sharpie, or score starting marks on on the AFM cog. I've talked dozens of people into doing this on various Toyota's, & about 1 in 3 are stupid - not heeding that warning & loosing track of where the cog is (Or letting it slip & click who-knows how many times).
MARK
STARTING
POSITION!!!




So you'll gain a bit of power (Most people find it in the midium rpm range & notice the high rpm range under a load). Also, if your ecu & o2 sensors really suck, you might pick-up a mpg, or two.

JamesD

What is wrong with any AFM is that it is VERY restrictive. Its like putting a plugged air filter in your car and then turbocharging it. Most of us run big tires and wrong gears. With the addes hp/tq this would help us out immensely. Also it is possible to gain some MPG's as well.

When I mean AFM I mean VAFM. Could you imagine how much easier out 3.0's would be with no AFM in its way?

James

Toysrme

I know exactly what you mean. You're basing this off incorrect information.
An AFM is not restrictive when compaired to a similar sized MAF.

(Edit - I add)
They're actually less restrictive when measured when compairing them VS many stock MAF's. Which almost always have a grated screen at the front of a housing. Most of them are a huge block of palstic sitting in the airstream at a flat angle & the ones that are "bare" have vanes sticking down in them.


Since I will always highly doubt it is under-sized for your enigne, based on similar engines. I doubt yall will ever have anything to gain, until someone can put enough mods on a 3vz-e to justify it.

Twisty

James....

Heres a scan out of the genuine 3VZE Toyota Engine Manual....The first page shows the outputs of the ECU than the 2nd page give you all the operating values of the sensors....

Clink Links below.
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/album49/EFI_1.jpg

http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/album49/EFI_2.jpg


I used this to wire up WOLF 3D Engine management on my 3VZE V6, and most of the pin locations were correct...so hopefully it is of use to you. I will try and get the ECU wiring diagram for you too...(don't have it here at work at the moment)

I'll be interested to see how it all turns out....even though I don't have a V6 anymore.