turboale

So I did some searching around and I'm buying amir's S/C package thing he started to build and then decided to get an 85 instead and anyway, I have a couple questions....

Stuff i'm buying
TRD supercharger
9.5 psi pulley
6 Supra Blue top injectors
TMC (Timing Map Controller) 1.1
Boost Guage with pod.



After installing all this stuff is the computer just going to go nuts with all this extra fuel/air being crammed into the engine or will it run the same? I was reading how everyone was getting dyno-tuned and stuff and I was just wondering if this was standard procedure or if its just something that can be done eventually to squeeze a few extra ponies? Lastly you will notice that the list is missing a fuel pump. My next question is what pump do you guys recomend and how much is it going to cost me?

Thanks!

Troymm

The TMC1.1 will only control the timing in closed loop. You need to get the FTC1 to control the fuel and timing. The walbro 190 lph pump will work and it runs about $80.00 to $90.00.

FilthyRich

FWIW I run Denso 2 step cooler plugs, 190 walbro fuel pump, 6 modified ford injectors (i believe 318cc) 170 degree thermostat and the FTC w/ split second software. the FTC is essential in s/c tuning. Drop GAdget a line. He has been great with my tuning questons

turboale

So the stock computer wouldn't know what to do with the fuel mods? Would it just run like crap? or just not as good as it could? Basicly I don't have the money to drop another $500 on a piggyback computer right now and was wondering if I could just use the stock computer, while not running as well as it could, be fine for a couple months or so til I have the cash to buy the computer and have it tuned etc. I'll email gadget if I can...

Edit:
ok, found the fuel pump upgrade from URD-Cool! $83
http://www.urdusa.com/Merchant2/merc...gory_Code=PERF

FilthyRich

a little bit of both. the FTC is wired into the ECU. With the R4 software you can make changes based on performance, running conditions, and climate. Don't forget to run 91-93 octane only (whatever is the highest rating)

turboale

I guess I could just run the stock boost til I get the computer? I could install everything and that should atleast help the pinging until I get the computer and then I can put the smaller pulley on too... that sounds feasable...

midiwall

No, the stock computer will NOT know what to do with those injectors, it probably won't even run, or if it does, then it'll run pig rich.

You could try not putting in the injectors, but then that 9.5 pulley is gonna make the engine run REALLY lean, and I'd wager that you'll detonate it within 100 miles.

The stock pulley is 6.5psi (depending on your altitude/climate). At that point, the engine is marginal on a good day without something to add fuel and control timing. I moved to a 2.2" pulley which got me 8psi. The engine went pretty lean, lean to the point of tossing a couple of "OMG!" CEL codes. I cranked my SMT piggyback and got the WOT lean condition under control (stock injectors and fuel pump), but the injectors are running pretty maxed out.

I have 305cc injectors to put in, and I'm waiting on delivery of a Walbro 190 fuel pump now.

Again, this is pushing "just" 8psi at 300' above sea level. I can't imagine trying to run 9.5psi without fuel mods.


I think you have three choices:

1. Put back the stock pulley, don't put in the injectors, and cross your fingers.
   
2. Buy a fuel pump and the FTC-1 or SMT, put in the injectors and fuel pump. Buy AT LEAST an A/FR meter and an OBDII reader, then learn to tune it.
   
3. Don't buy the setup until you can really afford to do it right - and remember, you will HAVE to run 91/92 octane fuel for the rest of the S/C's life.

turboale

Mark,
Don't worry... I wasn't planning on adding any boost without fuel mods. I know they already run lean out of the box. I just didn't know if the stock computer would know what to do with the supra injectors or not. Thanks for answering! I'll just keep it oem TRD til I can get the 'puter and then go crazy with it.

The only thing that sucks is that at school i'm at sea level, but my parents live in the mtns. I hope it doesn't start running like crap when I get up there. Is there a way to save two setups in either of the computer options? One for sea level and one for xxxxft?

turboale

I heard the walbro is an extremely loud unit... guys?

elnip

It shouldn't be with the sleeve around the pump in place. Mine is quiet.

Scott

bamachem

put the SC and cooler plugs in along w/ some 92/93 octane and try it out. If you ping, then install the TMC and retard timing about 1-2* to eliminate ping. when you get the money for the FTC or SMC, then you can install the pump, injectors, and swap the other controller in along w/ the smaller pulley. You can then sell the TMC for $100-$125.

Good Luck! I love my SC...

FilthyRich

no noise compliants from mine

midiwall

Cool - sounds like a good plan.


I dunno about the FTC-1, but the SMT's can store two sets of maps, selectable with a toggle switch that you can install anywhere you'd like.

3.4v6

im planning on buy some supra injectors. they are 330cc injectors that have been cleaned and balance BY RC engineering. would these work with a s/c. and would i have any fitment issues on my 01 v6. any advantages and/or dis-advantages? thanks guys/gals

midiwall

The short form is that a) yes they'll work, b) you'll HAVE to run some sort of a fuel controller (FTC-1, SMT-6, etc) in order to get them to run, c) Advantage: Being able to get a lot more fuel into the cylinders; Disadvantages: you HAVE to run a fuel controller to support them - the truck won't start without one; you'll also need to get a Walbro 190 in order to push fuel through them; and you may not NEED to run larger injectors.

The long form is that a lot of words have been written about this and a SEARCH will turn up other threads... Search for "330cc" and "305cc". Anything you see people saying about how to run 305's will also apply to 330's:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50640
(hey! that's this thread! )

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/perfect-power-smt-piggyback-controller-56220/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...4&page=2&pp=20


What are you looking for the injectors to be able to do for you?

montypower

So if the truck does not ping, then is it ok to drive?? I've seen guys add cooler plugs, thermostat, and larger pulley (drop psi). Could this be a good inexpensive solution?

Or what about the 7th injector kit with fuel pump upgrade?

midiwall

I guess the search engine is broke on here?


Ping is one side of the issue, the other side is lean out on the top end ("high RPM lean out"). Also, you can't always hear ping... when you can hear it, it's "bad".

The _right_ way to fix the S/C issues is to get more fuel into the engine and reduce the timing. That requires a fuel pump, fuel/timing controller and potentially larger injectors.

To address your points:

• Cooler plugs help to get heat out of the cylinders, which reduces the potential for predetonation (ping).
• A cooler thermostat works the same way but reduces the heat in the engine overall, which will tend to reduce power.
• A larger pulley reduces the amount of air the S/C is pushing (boost) which reduces the need for more fuel, which addresses the issue with leaning out on the top end.
• The 7th injector is a quasi band-aid solution that works, but it's not applicable to playing with getting more than the stock power out of a S/C'd engine. (i.e., using smaller S/C pulleys, larger injectors, etc).
• I found that using a larger fuel pump _alone_ (i.e., stock injectors, no fuel controller) will help the high RPM lean out issue, but not cure it. And, while Toyota doesn't require a larger pump with their 7th injector solution, it would be recommended.

You might want to search the forum for more words, there are a lot on here. "7th Injector" gets a lot of info.

blink

I was wondering why everyone refers to this as a "band-aid" fix? It is a proven solution to the lean out problems maybe have been seeing with the stock s/c. I mean i agreed when gadget said the FPR is a band-aid fix because it didnt completely cure the lean conditions he was experiencing.
Sorry if it sounds like im bashing... Im not trying to attack you at all, I just think people should be given the facts and the ability to choose if the 7th is right for them.

Facts about the 7th:
1) Runs more fuel into the engine by utilizing a 7th injector that plugs into the s/c
2) Provides an "intercooling" effect
3)Maintains factory warranty
5)Can be bought for around 500 dollars if you look around
6)And if at anytime you do add addtional mods such as a smaller pulley you can get a 7th injector controller to remap the fuel maps.
7) Its a plug and play solution, you dont have to order a kit such as urd or a unit like the smt and then have to wait for someone to tune it, which could possibly cost you alot more $$$

TRDOLMAN

Good observation Doug! I don't argue that Gadget's fuel kit is not a good solution to the shortcomings of the TRD supercharger. It works well and he deserves kudos for coming up with it. Problem is it doesn't work for everybody. I went with the 7th for warranty reasons and am glad I did. After doing a lot of testing, I found out that with URD's additional injector controller, the 7th injector kit did a damn good job. I challenge anyone with a fuel kit on a similar truck as mine (3.4--auto--4X4) running gasoline to match the RWHP and torque numbers my 7th is putting out. Maybe I am just a lucky one in that I don't have any ping issues but even if I did, I could get the AIC with the timing card in it from URD.
I definitely don't want to start a pissing contest with fuel kit guys but there are other alternatives. Gadget has done great things for us and his company and customer service is second to none but I can't close my eyes to other avenues when I need to. Guys with big warranties or are lacking in the mechanical abilities to install a fuel kit or tune it need to be able to take a closer look at the 7th injector without people that do not have experience with the system bashing it.

Dave

midiwall

eek.


My use of the term "band-aid" in regards to the 7th is based on a couple of things, but mostly because it's an afterthought that addresses an engineering mistake that Toyota still refuses to admit exists. The 7th is marketed without any admission to the ping or lean out issue.

But, yes, you're right that I should have pointed out that it will maintain your warranty and that plug & play can also be seen as a feature.


Thanks guys.