ring and pinion

toy4fun · 10-07-2003, 04:37 PM

i have a 1995 toyota 4-runner, automatic, 4x4 wiith a 3.0 liter engine, according to my id tag it came with a 8 inch gear with a ratio of 4.875, does this sound right? my gear is shot to hell (broken teeth) and i need to replace it before snow, and i just wanted to make sure that was right. any help or suggestions would be great. thanks :pat:

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Flygtenstein · 10-07-2003, 04:47 PM

If it was stock with 31's that sounds right.

At the very least this sounds plausible.

If you want to know for sure, and it sounds like you have the diff out to see the busted teeth, count the teeth on the ring and divide by the teeth on the pinion.

szf2 · 10-08-2003, 06:36 AM

If your door tag says G144, then you have the 4.88 gears. I have the same package on my 4runner. Did some research and found out its part of a towing package. Interestingly, stock tire size for these gears is 28" (according to my door jam model info sticker). Must have been because Toyota realized that even the 3.0L is reliable, it needs all the help it can get in the power department. Finally, I have heard rumors that that the ring and pinion for the 4.88 differential is unique in that ring and pinions from other 4runner differentials (i.e. diffs with other gearing) will not fit. Not sure if that's true or not, but something to keep in mind.

TOR · 10-08-2003, 06:40 AM

Only way to find out for sure is to drop the pumpkin and count the ring and pinion gear teeth. I would encourage you to do this first before anything so you know for sure what yours is.

Todd

44Runner · 10-08-2003, 07:59 AM

If you do have the factory 4.88 gears I am not sure if you can get a replacement for them because normal 8" gears will not fit in that third member. You might be able to get them from toyota, but it would probably be cheaper just to get a new normal third and 4.88s from an aftermarket place. I mean while you are in there you should replace the bearings anyways so that is a wash.

szf2 · 10-08-2003, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TOR
Only way to find out for sure is to drop the pumpkin and count the ring and pinion gear teeth. I would encourage you to do this first before anything so you know for sure what yours is.
Todd

This is true, and is actually what I ended up doing with mine to make sure. But that was a major pain just to find out my model info sticker wasn't lying. I personally would not recommend doing this again. An easier way to check is lifting the vehicle and counting tire revolutions per driveshaft revolution. Simply go to a shop, have them raise the vehicle, put vehicle in N, have somebody hold one back or front tire in place and then rotate the other back or front tire TWO full revolutions. You should get just under 5 driveshaft revolutions for the TWO tire revolutions (HOLDING THE OTHER TIRE FIXED). You can also turn the drive shaft 5 times and see if the tires rotate about once + a little (not holding 1 tire locked), but I think the former approach is more accurate.

In a nutshell, if your model info sticker says you have 4.88 gears, you probably have 4.88 gears. Toyota is not lying

. Only exception is if someone put in non-stock gears, in which case the above procedure will let you know.

4runner4ever · 10-08-2003, 12:49 PM

You need a true 8" V6 R&P.
They are not that expensive. Try: http://www.reiderracing.com/toy8v6.htm

You cannot mix 8" regular (4 cyl) style gears with 8" V6 style gears.

toy4fun · 10-08-2003, 12:54 PM

ok i took the thing apart and there are 39 teeth on the ring gear and 8 on the pinion gear so that means its a 4.88, right? now according to the code its a 8 inch,, but the one thats in there doesnt even measure 8, maybe 7.5, so whats the deal there? do you mean i need to get a whole new pumpkin? im confused now, any help would be great. thanks

4runner4ever · 10-08-2003, 12:59 PM

All 2 gen 4Runners have a 7.5" in the front and a 8" in the back. If you really want toyo diff info try:
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/
So far all I found about these diffs the hard way is exactly what is mentioned on his site. Looks to me he knows his stuff.

44Runner · 10-08-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toy4fun
ok i took the thing apart and there are 39 teeth on the ring gear and 8 on the pinion gear so that means its a 4.88, right? now according to the code its a 8 inch,, but the one thats in there doesnt even measure 8, maybe 7.5, so whats the deal there? do you mean i need to get a whole new pumpkin? im confused now, any help would be great. thanks

If you go back and read JUST my post you should be straight, but let me make it painfully simple as it appears there are people posting in this thread that have no idea what they are talking about, despite my posting the correct responce previous to their posting and I can see why that would confuse you.

-The removable part of the axle that houses the gears is the "third member" sometimes refered to as the "dropout" (dropout is what they tend to call it on american made axles)

-8" Third members that came from the factory with 4.88 gears in them are different from all the other 8" third members. Aftermarket gears WILL NOT work properly in them.

-Your choices are to find another factory 4.88 third (or gear set and have someone knowledgable install them for you) or you can get a normal 8" third (preferably a V6 third) and put aftermarket 4.88s in them or get a normal third that someone has already thrown 4.88s in or you could possibly go to the dealer and order a new set of gears which they will probably charge an arm and a leg for and then get someone to install them for you.

-Unless you get an already setup third, definately change the bearings during this process.

toy4fun · 10-08-2003, 01:47 PM

44runner thank you, it finally makes sense now, i guess i am going to look for a whole setup, factory used, so if anybody out there can help me out, let me know, thanks again

one more thing, do anyother years or truck styles interchange with mine? thanks

44Runner · 10-08-2003, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toy4fun
thank you, it finally makes sense now, i guess i am going to look for a whole setup, factory used, so if anybody out there can help me out, let me know, thanks again one more thing, do anyother years or truck styles interchange with mine? thanks

No problem man. Sounds like a good plan. Don't rule out normal v6 diffs swapped to 4.88 with aftermarket gears. Maybe even get a locker in the deal. Check on pirate to see what is for sale...

toy4fun · 10-08-2003, 07:26 PM

44runner, i hate to look dumb, but what or where is pirate. thanks again

44Runner · 10-08-2003, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toy4fun
44runner, i hate to look dumb, but what or where is pirate. thanks again

Nothing dumb about it...

Pirate4x4.com

There is a forum similar to this there and they frequently have stuff like this in the for sale section. Most of the really serious off road types hang out over there. I guess I spend most of my time on-line reading that forum too...

4runner4ever · 10-09-2003, 12:03 PM

After setting up some 30 or more toyo diffs I think I know what I am talking about 44runner. But it seems your right. The 4.88 seems to be an exeption. For you US guys. I never found or seen this ratio in a 4R in Europe. Sorry for the confusion.

TOR · 10-09-2003, 01:34 PM

Glad to see you guys kiss and make up, LOL. Sorry boys had to poke fun.

Shay, I hope the info I gave you helps out. Let us know what happens.

Todd

10-08-2003, 06:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
TOR Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 490	Gearing ratio Only way to find out for sure is to drop the pumpkin and count the ring and pinion gear teeth. I would encourage you to do this first before anything so you know for sure what yours is. Todd __________________ 97 4-Runner Limited, 1st Gen Supercharger, TRD air filter, Flo~Pro, 18" BBS wheels, 2.0 pulley, and nitrous express on the way! I am a Toyota Parts Sales rep, if anyone needs Toyota or TRD parts email me or call me! Todd Packer Toyota of Richardson Parts Department 972-238-4465 800-527-2781 todd_packer@toyotaofrichardson.com

10-08-2003, 07:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
44Runner Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mount Pleasant, SC Posts: 993	If you do have the factory 4.88 gears I am not sure if you can get a replacement for them because normal 8" gears will not fit in that third member. You might be able to get them from toyota, but it would probably be cheaper just to get a new normal third and 4.88s from an aftermarket place. I mean while you are in there you should replace the bearings anyways so that is a wash. Last edited by 44Runner; 10-08-2003 at 08:00 AM.

10-08-2003, 12:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
4runner4ever Contributing Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 408	You need a true 8" V6 R&P. They are not that expensive. Try: http://www.reiderracing.com/toy8v6.htm You cannot mix 8" regular (4 cyl) style gears with 8" V6 style gears. __________________ '90 4R 2JZ-GE swap, headers, turbo and intercooler FR and RR LC axles coils and discs all around AllPro parking brake 305/70 R16 Yokohama MT 4.88 gears

10-08-2003, 12:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
4runner4ever Contributing Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 408	All 2 gen 4Runners have a 7.5" in the front and a 8" in the back. If you really want toyo diff info try: http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/ So far all I found about these diffs the hard way is exactly what is mentioned on his site. Looks to me he knows his stuff. __________________ '90 4R 2JZ-GE swap, headers, turbo and intercooler FR and RR LC axles coils and discs all around AllPro parking brake 305/70 R16 Yokohama MT 4.88 gears

10-08-2003, 01:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
toy4fun Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: new hampshire Posts: 8	44runner thank you, it finally makes sense now, i guess i am going to look for a whole setup, factory used, so if anybody out there can help me out, let me know, thanks again one more thing, do anyother years or truck styles interchange with mine? thanks Last edited by toy4fun; 10-08-2003 at 01:50 PM.

10-07-2003, 04:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	If it was stock with 31's that sounds right. At the very least this sounds plausible. If you want to know for sure, and it sounds like you have the diff out to see the busted teeth, count the teeth on the ring and divide by the teeth on the pinion.

10-08-2003, 06:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
szf2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NY Posts: 80	If your door tag says G144, then you have the 4.88 gears. I have the same package on my 4runner. Did some research and found out its part of a towing package. Interestingly, stock tire size for these gears is 28" (according to my door jam model info sticker). Must have been because Toyota realized that even the 3.0L is reliable, it needs all the help it can get in the power department. Finally, I have heard rumors that that the ring and pinion for the 4.88 differential is unique in that ring and pinions from other 4runner differentials (i.e. diffs with other gearing) will not fit. Not sure if that's true or not, but something to keep in mind.

10-08-2003, 12:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
toy4fun Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: new hampshire Posts: 8	ok i took the thing apart and there are 39 teeth on the ring gear and 8 on the pinion gear so that means its a 4.88, right? now according to the code its a 8 inch,, but the one thats in there doesnt even measure 8, maybe 7.5, so whats the deal there? do you mean i need to get a whole new pumpkin? im confused now, any help would be great. thanks

10-08-2003, 07:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
toy4fun Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: new hampshire Posts: 8	44runner, i hate to look dumb, but what or where is pirate. thanks again

10-09-2003, 12:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
4runner4ever Contributing Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 408	After setting up some 30 or more toyo diffs I think I know what I am talking about 44runner. But it seems your right. The 4.88 seems to be an exeption. For you US guys. I never found or seen this ratio in a 4R in Europe. Sorry for the confusion. __________________ '90 4R 2JZ-GE swap, headers, turbo and intercooler FR and RR LC axles coils and discs all around AllPro parking brake 305/70 R16 Yokohama MT 4.88 gears

10-09-2003, 01:34 PM	#16 (permalink)
TOR Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 490	Funny Glad to see you guys kiss and make up, LOL. Sorry boys had to poke fun. Shay, I hope the info I gave you helps out. Let us know what happens. Todd __________________ 97 4-Runner Limited, 1st Gen Supercharger, TRD air filter, Flo~Pro, 18" BBS wheels, 2.0 pulley, and nitrous express on the way! I am a Toyota Parts Sales rep, if anyone needs Toyota or TRD parts email me or call me! Todd Packer Toyota of Richardson Parts Department 972-238-4465 800-527-2781 todd_packer@toyotaofrichardson.com

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