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Old 01-11-2005, 07:23 AM   #1
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replacing piston rings myself reuse pistons and rods?

hey all i have decided its time for a replacement of piston rings as i am starting to burn oil. i want to do everything right and i was wondering if i should reuse my pistons and rods (while replacing the main bolts, bearings, bushings and all that other stuff) or would it be smarter to buy all new internals?

i am not looking for any performance or anything like that, just a solid engine that will last me awhile.
also, can anyone recommend a good place (online) to get new or remfg internals (and the components) decently cheap?

thanks all!
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:56 AM   #2
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I've only rebuilt one engine (a 4.2L I6 on my Jeep wagoneer). It was hurting enough that I had an engine shop bore the cylinders 30 thousandths and put in new oversized pistons.

I imagine there's a way to measure whether this is required, but frankly I don't know. Perhaps price pistons and machine work and make a risk v cost assessment.

Since I'm not the one paying for parts or work, it would seem like you should replace as much as possible. But again, I'm not paying for it.
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Old 01-11-2005, 08:39 AM   #3
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Is the oil leaking past your piston rings or your valve stem seals? Have you done a compression check?

Personally, I would replace the main and rod bearings. You're already that deep in there, and they are cheap. If you are certain your engine has never had any machine work done on the crank, then get std size replacement bearings. Regardless, be sure to not mix the caps and their associated locations. i.e. end cap 4 goes to piston rod 4, end cap 3 to piston 3, etc, for both rod and main caps. And reassemble with a coating of heavy oil (20w50) on everything.

I've used a dude on ebay called 'partsdinosaur' in Arizona quite successfully. Do an ebay search for him.
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Last edited by Unhappy99; 01-11-2005 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 01-11-2005, 09:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needayota
hey all i have decided its time for a replacement of piston rings as i am starting to burn oil. i want to do everything right and i was wondering if i should reuse my pistons and rods (while replacing the main bolts, bearings, bushings and all that other stuff) or would it be smarter to buy all new internals?

i am not looking for any performance or anything like that, just a solid engine that will last me awhile.
also, can anyone recommend a good place (online) to get new or remfg internals (and the components) decently cheap?

thanks all!
Toyota engines are pretty solid when you do a rebuild and for the most part, when I was rebuilding alot of Toyota engines, that I usually ended up just reusing the old pistons and rods as long as they were not too scored or had damage. Just give the cylinders a good honing and install the new rings. The heads are best sent to a machine shop to get rebuilt.
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Old 01-11-2005, 12:17 PM   #5
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no machine work, i was quoted $650 at my local (and most trustworthy) machine shop to rebuild my bottom end but i think i told him the wrong things. i can put it together no problem (hell, ive got yotatech right?) i was just thinking he needs to hone the cylinder walls and such.

what type of stuff does he need to/ probably should do?

thanks again all. this solution looks a whole lot cheaper.

edit: a question that has been on my mind. i can currently go around 60 - 65 mph on the freeway, is this normal? about what rpm am i at? will i be able to go faster (70 is all i need) when this ring job is done

and i got a compression test done, 180 across all cylinders.
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Last edited by needayota; 01-11-2005 at 12:32 PM. Reason: ask one more question
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:19 AM   #6
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180 even? I would not touch the rings, bearings or anything else but the head. Since you have very good sealing of the combustion chamber, your oil leak is most likely the valve stem seals. Have the head reworked. While you're at it, and if it hasn't been done, replace the timing chain, guides, gears and tensioner and clean the egr.
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unhappy99
180 even? I would not touch the rings, bearings or anything else but the head. Since you have very good sealing of the combustion chamber, your oil leak is most likely the valve stem seals. Have the head reworked. While you're at it, and if it hasn't been done, replace the timing chain, guides, gears and tensioner and clean the egr.
I agree.....180 psi is quite good so just pull the head and rebuild it instead.
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Old 01-12-2005, 01:54 PM   #8
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don't bother replacing your rods unless you're pushing well over 300HP...they're forged, as is the crank.
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Old 01-12-2005, 07:22 PM   #9
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i actually had the head redone already, i bought it with a BHG so i had to replace that and while i was at it i had the head surfaced and all seals replaced (maybe they didnt seat right?) but i talked to the family mech. and he said that the compression would not have anything to do with the oil rings themselves but the compression rings only. (i guess he is saying that the 22re's have a pair of rings instead of just the oil rings) so i dont know. and in the record book that was in the car it stated that the timing chain was replaced at 130,000 (there is now 185,xxx). i mean it wont burn oil going 60 but it will burn it slowly if i go 65 or above. so could that be something else?
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:54 PM   #10
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I honed the cylinders in my son's truck and put in new rings. Reused the pistons and rods. Did new bearings, too. It all worked good til he sunk in a pit and sucked water. Bent the #3 & 4 rods.

The Toyota 22r (e) engine is very resilient. We changed rods and pistons and ran it again. But, he hydro'ed it again in 2 months. It ran 2 weeks then threw #4 rod.

We put in a used, newly rebuilt motor, and he stays out of water.


Yes!! Change the rings. If you can still see the crosshatch patern on the cyl wals, lightly hone them and assemble.
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:46 AM   #11
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There are two compression rings and a set of oil scraper rings on each piston. The scraper set consists of two rings separated by a wavy spacer. From the top of the piston and going down, there is compression ring#1, compression ring #2, oil scraper set.

similar to this

Your family mechanic is correct: compression is achieved by the compression rings. Most, but not all, of the oil is removed (scraped) from the cylinder walls by the scraper set located beneath the compression rings. Most of the remaining oil is removed by the compression rings. There is always a tiny bit left on the wall to keep the compression rings lubed.

If the compression rings were not sealing, then oil would be burned by both blow by and cylinder wall oil burn. With 180 psi, your rings are sealing well. This means your oil is leaking in from somewhere else, and the most likely culprit is the valve stem seals.

How much oil are you burning? What weight oil are you using? How quickly does the oil darken after an oil change?
All engines burn some oil. My 87 (22re) burned about 1 qt. every 10k miles its entire life.

I am also wondering about your description of maximum speed being 65 ish. My 87 would hold 80 in 5th gear with no headwind. Check your timing, plugs, wires, air filter, etc.....adjust valve clearances, clean the injectors....
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Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified'
Defective brake rotors - 'Certified'
Defective axle seals - 'Certified'
Defective heater diverter - 'Certified'
etc. etc. etc.

Last edited by Unhappy99; 01-13-2005 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:02 AM   #12
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If it makes you feel better then give the cylinders a light honing, clean up the pistons (esp the ring lands) and throw on some new rings. Also look very carefully at the cylinder walls and use a fingernail to feel for any scoring (if it is deep enough to catch a fingernail you need to have it rebored or sleeved.

I still think the leaking is coming from on of the valve seals but maybe not.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
How much oil are you burning? What weight oil are you using? How quickly does the oil darken after an oil change?
All engines burn some oil. My 87 (22re) burned about 1 qt. every 10k miles its entire life.

I am also wondering about your description of maximum speed being 65 ish. My 87 would hold 80 in 5th gear with no headwind. Check your timing, plugs, wires, air filter, etc.....adjust valve clearances, clean the injectors....
if i go above 65 for any decent amount of time i will burn about a qt every 2 weeks or so. but if i stay at 60 then i will not burn any oil at all. i am using 10w40 oil. and the oil darkens up with in the first 1000 miles after an oil change.

when i go 70 (ive done this before) my engine just sounds really rough and it doesnt sound very healthy, like i would encounter major problems if i kept it at 70 every time i was on the freeway. my rig is also very slow, it takes forever to get up to 60. i went 65 the entire way down to pismo beach (about 200 or so miles from me) and i burnt about 1 qt during the trip down there, i went 60 the whole way up and burnt no oil at all.

to address the valve stem seals:
i am not thinking it would be those since i just had the head rebuilt (new seals and all the small stuff) by a professional mechanic (i.e. not myself) i guess its possible that the mech. did a bad job but it could be possible that some small particles got into the cylinders while i was rebuilding the head and might have scratched the walls. i had the compression test done before i changed the head gasket.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:14 AM   #14
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This isn't making a lot of sense to me. If the head gasket was blown, then the compression test should not look so good. Having oil get dirty quickly certainly implies bad rings. Low power can be lots of things. Another compression test may be a good idea. You can get a gauge kit from Autozone for ~$25 or so and test it yourself.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:40 AM   #15
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thats what i will do then.
because the guy that i got the compression test done with, i thought he was pretty shady and didnt know what the hell he was doing, so maybe he just lied. when i pulled the head (did it my self) i SAW the metal ring on the head gasket over the #4 piston was torn, so it was certianly blown. i probably do have bad rings. i can go those speeds you were talking about its just i dont becuase i dont want to refill oil more than gas.

also one last question:

can a transmission make alot of noise at high speeds and it might sound like its the engine?

becuase i think my trans. is sounding pretty rough at high speeds and not my engine (which might be getting drowned out by the trans.)

thanks again for helping me unhappy, ithink i have figured out what i need to do.
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:59 PM   #16
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If you find out you have bad rings, etc, then also check the rods to see they are not bent. You'd be surprised (or maybe not) to find out how many of us have taken our 4Runners swimming and bent a rod from hydrolock. This can also occur with a blown head gasket since radiator water gets into the chamber.

Yes, trannys can make noise. So can the front diff and wheel bearings. You should be able to narrow it down by figuring out if the noise increases or decreases with clutch in or out, tranny in neutral or a gear (assuming its a manual), 4wd hubs locked or not, turning left or right. For example, find a deserted road, bring it up to 60mph, let off the gas, and put the trans in neutral. Do the noise and roughness improve or not? How about with the clutch pushed in?

Check your front wheel bearings by jacking up a wheel, grabbing it a 12 and 6 oclock, and wiggling it. If it wiggles much, the bearings need attention.
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03 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD...its amazing

Ex: 1999 4Runner JT3HN86R1X0199261...Now somebody elses Karl Malone Toyota 'Certified' POS
Legendary Toyota quality is exactly that: A thing of legend.

Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified'
Defective brake rotors - 'Certified'
Defective axle seals - 'Certified'
Defective heater diverter - 'Certified'
etc. etc. etc.
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Old 07-22-2006, 08:19 PM   #17
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For the trans noise does it make a vidrateing noise and it sounds like its coming from under the truck it could me a drive shaft out of balance..! this happens when a mechanic takes it off while car is on the lift doing work to your trans or after he does the rear main seal and tosses it on the ground! Then puts it back up not realizing whats his dumb ass has done lol it has happend to me with my truck man I was pissed! paying $1200 for a new tranny then hearing that dang noise..
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Old 07-22-2006, 08:19 PM
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