oly884

There's a great remark.

You just flat out don't need that much power when you're crawling. BUT, and I say BUT, it's nice to have that extra power when you are driving around the street.

WolfpackTLC

Not attempting to flame you, but there is an inherent problem w/ remote mounting.... All though I'm not gonna dispute that there is some inherent cooling of air due to the length of pipe, there is NO WAY you're gonna convince me that the pipe is as efficient as an intercooler.

Furthermore, all that pipe is going to lead to one thing... pressure loss... A turbo spooling 7psi is not going to make 7psi @ the intake manifold, unless you up the pressure, there by doing a few things...

1. Making the turbo work harder, thus reducing service life.

2. Make the turbo work harder, thus increasing charge air temps, and reducing the amount of power you can make.


I retract my original statement... it is a creative system design, and may have it's uses, but you'll never see one on my rig.

Oh... and thanks for the help w/ Jeremy's rig! As soon as we get our other parts car, he's on the road! Woo hoo!

Dan_90SR5

I agree with everything that you say, but I think that this is only a good system on vehicles with body lifts to help hide and protect the turbo. I personally am a fan of the traditional mounting method.

The other thing that I disagree with is that it's easier that a S/C to install. I read on one of the S/C posts that someone installed it in 3 hrs. That's about the same time it'll take someone to install this turbo kit.

Also, you'll have the same issues with the turbo kit that some are having with the S/C.......detonation. Boost is boost and you have the same results however you approach it.

One last thing for those that go this route. Make a skid plate!!!!!

Dan_90SR5

Here is how I think that it's a good design:

on a rig with a 3" BL.......this will help hide and protect the turbo. I would mount it right under the driver so that it's still close to the engine yet making it easier to mount. To me this will make it just as efficient as a tradition mounted turbo. It will also be close enough to the engine to run the intake into the engine bay. Also close enough to use a traditional intercooler. By mounting it in this manner you can use the TRD or Edelbrock headers and modify them with this turbo set-up.

The rear mounting will not make the compressor work any harder though. The turbo has no idea what pressure it's trying to run, it just spins as exhaust gas moves it. I do agree that the length of the pipe is not a suitable intercooler. It might drop a degree or two, but not the same as an intercooler would do. An A/W intercooler would be easy to add though. Or even fins mounted to the pipe might help some.

I think that this would be a good idea for the right rig, but would need to be done in the manner that I mentioned. This is definately not the right answer for everyone and I think that mounting it so far back is just stupid. Mount it under the driver and run it the way I mentioned........that answers all of the intake issues and would even allow of use of a snorkel.

SuperRunner

How is it not going to get 7psi? That makes no sense. The wasgate will open when it sees 7psi.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention about the turbo lag because of pipe length. NOT A PROBLEM. I ran 3" piping, about 6 feet of it, and a HUGE Ford Powerstroke intercooler. My previous setup, which was much smaller, I would get full boost by 4,000(had some crappy bends). Anyway, people said I would lag and would take forever to reach full spool. I got full spool with this giant setup at 2700 RPM.

By the way, on the camaros, the get full spool by like 1500 RPM.

SuperRunner

oh, the rear mounts behind the rear axle are usually for cars. Trucks get mounted up by the tranny.

Dan_90SR5

Sounds reasonable to me then. I'd still go with a BL to tuck it up out of the way some. I might consider this rather than the S/C after I finish my project. I'll use an intercooler though.

I'll do some more reading up on it though. I'm concerned about the oil return from the turbo with it being mounted to low.

Dan_90SR5

It's funny that the kit looks like it uses a Garrett t3 like I mentioned in an earlier post. Guess I hit the nail on the head with the right turbo to use for our 4Runners/Trucks/Tacomas.

I will say that this kit can be built for less than their selling price. You can pick up a T3 on ebay for less than $400. Definately can be built for less than $3500 with an intercooler.

Dan_90SR5

Ok, I was wrong.....it uses the GT series Garrett turbos, but same size as a T3 from the looks of it. I think that the only real difference in the GT series is that they use dual ball bearings. I think that they might have ceremic wheels also. Either way, a T3 would work.

CynicX

other vehicle was a wrx did all the engine work my self including td04 turbo, sti pink injectors, perin catless turbo back exhaust, walbro fuel pump, utec fully dyno tuned myself, apc catless uppipe, FM intercooler, jspec sti tranny.....i won enough money street racing that car in DC to pay for the car and my alot of my tacoma.....no i dont know anything about a turbo charged vehicles.....

CynicX

oh and btw....as far as a turbo for wheeling the guy i was talking about with the turbo jeep is on his 2nd turbo....because apparently when you ford water with a red hot turbo it doesnt like it, this would be the advantage to the rear mount....

i'm not arguing...if you can handle a turbo offroad more power to you, but dont tell me what i do and dont know, i drove in a turbo rig and it was 10x harder to control, exhaust spools the turbo thats all there is too it, nothing else...like i said if you can control that flucuating power that hats off to ya....

dbikeman

Thats just it, if you know all this about turbos then you should know you can tune the power band and its not just gonna all of the sudden kick you in the pants.

SuperRunner

Your friend must not be all that smart then. The only way the turbo is going to be red hot is if you are rallying it for awhile, then driving it through a stream. If you have been hard on your turbo, just be smart before you forge a river. Give it a couple minutes to cool down. Also, what about all these turbo-diesels that are running competitions(other contries usually) that completly sumberge thier vehicles. I have never burned out a turbo unless it had 160,000+ miles on it, and the previous owner/s probably never did proper cool down before shutting the engine off.

Also, jeeps don't come with turbo's. What did he have? Did he do some custom job himself. Must not have worked well. A proper setup is very easy to control. The turbo will only kick in when it is needed, and for rock crawling, it is hardly ever needed.

I was at Johnson Valley a few years ago, and during crawling, I never built boost, but then when it came to sand duned, everone else slowly plowed through in 4wd. I stuck it in 2wd, stepped on the gas, built 10 psi, and flew through the sand faster than anyone else could.

Dan_90SR5

I don't think that anyone is calling you stupid or at least I'm not, but a turbo designed for racing be it street (which I'm against, but to each their own) or on a drag strip is different than what you'd use for an off-road vehicle with dual purpose such as our 4Runners/Tacomas/Trucks. For example, your TD04 turbo would have no business at all in our rigs because it spools up way too late. I think that's what people are trying to get across to you about your friends Jeep.......it's not running the proper turbo. I think that a front mounted turbo on out rigs would do well with a T3 or maybe evern smaller turbo. This will spool up fast and we'd only need it to run 7psi boost or less.

It's all about picking the proper turbo for the application. The TD04 is great for you WRX (BTW great cars), but we need a small turbo to give our rigs as much as a stock feel as possible.

WolfpackTLC

I apparently got ahead of myself when I posted...


What I meant to say is that with THAT much pipe, the 7psi that the waste gate allows won't be 7psi by the time it hits the throttle body... pressure drop... It's inevitable.... So.... for the turbo to keep up with 7psi, it'll be working HARDER than it would have to with less pressure drop. Come on... everybody measures pressure drop across an I/C core... this much length of pipe is sure to be an issue (however small) too...maybe .5 - 1psi? Hardly huge, but still something to consider.

Oh... AND not to mention the fact that exhaust gas pulse is stronger (ie more efficient and energy rich) when as hot as possible... That's why INDY cars and such all strive to get the turbo as close as possible to the exhaust gases... better spool up time, more efficient operation.

Your definition of easy and mine must be different....

To add a proper Air-to-water I/c would require not only a suitable core, but also plumbing for the liquid, a heat transfer unit, space to mount said unit, AND a tank to hold the coolant....

And headers AND a turbo doesn't make any sense at all.... headers would ADD backpressure to an extent... w/ a turbo you don't want backpressure.... backpressure is bad...




Now I will say this as a disclaimer....

I USED to race RX-7's and I've owned several MKIV Supra's....

We engineers are anal by nature... I'm anal about car stuff by choice...

That said, if I've spent big bucks to make big numbers w/ a GT 35-40 turbo or a ball-bearing turbo of some other design, ANY turbo lag, regardless of how insignificant, (and when compared to stock) is going to bother me... The ultimate goal for us in those race/street cars is to improve upon stock, and decrease spool-up time while increasing power.

I'm sure the lag isn't noticeable in a truck, esp. if you're not used to the power to begin with...

A MKIV w/ 600rwhp and a little more lag than stock is easy to notice if you're used to a MKIV w/ 600rwhp and less lag than stock... I don't know if what I'm trying to say is clear....

SuperRunner

So running the wasgate at 8 psi to achieve 7 psi is going to put a TRAMENDOUS load on the turbo, so much that it will fail?

And yes, you are correct that the velocity near the engine is much greater than at the tailpipe, but remember, we are dealing with 7psi, not 30. These rear mount turbo's very easily generate 7psi, at very low RPMS.

jimbo74

superchargers will give you the low rpm power needed for wheeling... turbos are best fro higher speeds, like racing

Maddog

Hey guys steady up...quit your arguing,Its pretty clear this is a complete waste of money.I mean almost 4k for a turbo is a tad expensive dont you think,You could do alot to your vehicle for far less using allsorts of other methods..If you feel you need this kind of thing you driving the wrong kind of car.

Id love a little more power out of my 3.slow but i accept that its not designed to be fast.& for $4000 us dollars i could put a small block V8 in my rig if i wanted.but if i had that kind of money to toss out the window, id probably just upgrade to a newer runner with a 3.4 instead.Now i know many of you already have 3.4's,so why not just get a supercharger put on,if you absolutly need more power.& if thats not enough, buy a new car that has that kind of power stock.

Its a clever idea by the looks ,but its simply just not worth it.maybe if it was cheaper(like half the price).it would be more appealing.

SuperRunner

OH MY GOSH!!!!

Didn't I just explain that you don't need low RPM power for wheeling? I mean, you do need some, but you don't need the kind of power that you are refering too. Around 150 ft/lbs or so of torque is more than enough for rock crawling. Have you ever heard that a 22R doesn't have enough low end grunt from guy who run dual cases? No, you only hear about how long it took them to drive there because they couldn't go over 50. And yes, Turbos are better for higher speeds, you hit the nail on the head for that one, but you are wrong about racing. How about just freeway power. The ability to 75mph with your foot barely on the gas.

SuperRunner

I do agree though, 3500-4000 is a little high. I know the parts aren't even half that. But this is for rich people that just want to bolt on more power, and don't have the time, or the knowhow to do it themselves, and don't want to void the warrenty, and make thier vehicle still sellable after it has been installed.