Post engine swap troubles

98trdgecko · 11-06-2009, 07:19 PM

Bought a 98 tacoma with locked up engine. Engine was run hot .

I had a mechanic do a straight up swap ( 2.7 for 2.7) .

Here's the post swap problem... truck acts as if it wants to start but is being shutdown by some other source, as in maybe alarm system or chip in key type control.

I have yet to try to crank the truck , this is just what i'm being told by the mechanic.

The donor vehicle was a 99 runner. Pretty sure the donor was also automatic trans. , but cant confirm that at the moment.

The question i have is ... was keyless entry type alarm or chip in key an option or standard equipment in either of these vehicles, and could this be my issue.

Or could anyone suggest another cause to my problem?

Truck shows no codes or check engine light. I'm told after the first unsuccessful try to crank , it behaves as though it's being timed out for a while by the computer or other source. After attempting to crank the engine you have to wait a while before you can attempt it again, as nothing will happen immediately after the first try.

thanks in advance

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98trdgecko · 11-06-2009, 07:33 PM

bump to top

98trdgecko · 11-06-2009, 08:25 PM

Btt
......

Man4God · 11-06-2009, 11:02 PM

What exactly was swapped? The ECU along with all the wiring or just the long block?

I assume that the lights on the dash turn on and the starter acts like it wants to engage, right?

eddieleephd · 11-07-2009, 12:00 AM

my big question is the wiring. Did the Mechanic use your wiring harness??
and also were there any wiring splices! modified wiring connections??
there are a few things this could be!! We need to know specifics about the swap
if you have no alarm this will not effect start up... bad connections in the wiring at the cam or crank sensors. igniter ,bad ground, compression no fuel??
Fuel pressure, need more info!!!

98trdgecko · 11-07-2009, 12:14 AM

no other wiring was replaced. just the block with head , valve covers etc. The ecu and harness were the origional in the p/u. The donor vehicle was a two wheel drive anyway , so ecu would do me no good.

From what i know this baby acts like she's ready for action ... it just wont crank and run. Starter turns it over... gettin fire , gettin fuel, getting air for a moment when the key is turned but as soon as it is about to run without the starter's help one of the three drops out.

Thats why i'm thinkig it computer controlled. As in a security device stopping it for getting spark or stopping the fuel injectors from opening long enough to run on its own.

Also the delayed second try is leading me in this direction.

I will be picking it up from the mechanic at 7 oclock am and trying to physically figure it out myself, because he wants to wash his hands of the situation. ... while taking the origionally quoted payment for a running truck.

If thats not enough to get someone upset i'd like to have your patients and understanding. Cuz i think that's wrong.

thanks for trying to help.

Nick.

what do you think might be the cause?

98trdgecko · 11-07-2009, 12:22 AM

As far as i know all connections were just unplugged from old motor and the new one plugged in. No splices .

"as far as i know" when i disgused the problem with him( mechanic) he said the physical swap went well and there was no complication at that point. He's done many engine replacements from what he tells me and this one is a first for him. I beleive he's done as many as he claims and through aquaintances i can trust him on that.

The fuel pressure will have to wait till monday to be tested. He suggests i take it to a local repair shop to have it put on the computer there but it will be another hundred bucks to only have it analized plus labor for whatever they do.

98trdgecko · 11-07-2009, 12:37 AM

I also am unsure if there is an aftermarket or factory security system. When i bought it it was in non running condition and it was a deal i couldn't pass up. I paid $1800 for a lower milage truck in great condition other than the kid running it hot.

Side note: there were three sets of keys to the truck and none of them had a key fob to lead me to think there would be a security system.

eddieleephd · 11-07-2009, 08:50 AM

you need to make sure that all of the connections are tight use dielectric.
the thing is that the fuel will not work if the spark is not really there or the ecm does not know that it is there. there does seem to be a lot of communication to the ecu. the igniter for instance the ecu tells the igniter to fire then the igniter tells the ecu that it fired if the igniter does not tell the ecu the coil fired the ecu turns the fuel off.then if the cam or crank sensors are not being sensed then it will not run right?? well it is true. there is a way to test these for the cam and crank sensors start by testing at the sensor use a volt meter set to ac and turn the engine over this will tell you if a voltage is present we use ac for this because it is a magnet that moves and creates an ac current if tested with a dc tester it will read a positive then negative and so on but ac will show a constant positive just varying. next we need to check at the ECU connector for the same reading from the cam and crank sensors. if that is good then you will need to move to the next test some thing like the timing is set right not a few teeth out.
then the signal from the igniter use a straight pin to pierce the wire or push in with the wire in to the connector and see that you get the right readings to and from the igniter then check at the ecu for the same readings.

Do not forget to check all fuses and relays just because they were fine before does not mean they are fine now recently saw a post where some one had a bad relay after work but not before!

I will look up the link for where to test at the ecu and post it in a minute!

ED

the first am still looking for the next
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Repa...ine/terecm.pdf

Ok the next for the terminals of ecu for the cam crank sensors
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Repa...on/cip0335.pdf

and for the igniter
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Repa...on/cip1300.pdf

Now to use the links you need to use the first to know where the terminals are on the ECM plug and which plug
the next two will tell you which pin to check and how but do remember to use ac for the cam and crank sensors
first test at sensor and then at ecm make sure that they are the same reading then move to the igniter.

All these are found
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/index.html
and they were found in the circuit inspection section at cip0335 and below except the ecm terminal found at the terecm

Best of luck hope this helps at least eliminate a few things if not tell you what you need to know!!

98trdgecko · 11-07-2009, 10:17 PM

Thanks alot for all the advice!

Got it running!

After getting it home i tried to buy the service manual from parts store with no luck.So i just picked up the new battery i knew i needed.

Got home and popped the hood . Started checkin fuses and swapped out the relays that had the same toyota part numbers to see what happened... nothing new.

I did a visual for anything out of the ordinary and found the engine ground to the body was very loose , only about two threads of the bolt were started.

This got me lookin even harder for loose wiring. I checked all the connections i could get to and found what appeared to be a gathered set of four ( possibly ground wires for fuel injectors) which all were terminated on one bolt to the front right side of the block near the fuel rail. The bolt , again loose with only a couple threads started, got tightened and i tried to fire it up with the same result. Nothing... turned over but didn,t start.

while in the cab i pumped the brake pedal which felt spongey the first time then get more rigid as i pumped it. At the same time i turned the engine over and she spit and sputtered a second then ran on her own..

I thought sweet... untill i saw the huge cloud of smoke coming out of the tail pipe. fogging the neighborhood. Thought i had major problems with the replacement engine but it turns out it was crap built up in the exaust from the last engine that ran hot and lockedup. Smelled like a mix of coolant and oil... blown headgasket soup.

After idling for 30 min, 99% of the soup burned out and now she just idles a lil high, around 1100 which i'll handle tomorrow

Sometimes i hate to wrench on my own vehicles but i love the pride that comes with getting it done yourself. And it always helps to have knowledgable people to point you in the right direction.

thanks again for the help!!

nick

eddieleephd · 11-08-2009, 09:00 AM

glad you got her going!!
Link to your FSM
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/index.html

for future reference!

11-06-2009, 07:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
98trdgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gonzales, La. Posts: 20	bump to top __________________ 98 Tacoma 4x4 2.7l ( stock 4 now) 2000 Prerunner sr5 trd ( parting out on yt marketplace ) 99 GMC Z71 leather power everything including a$$ warmers ( my dd )

11-06-2009, 08:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
98trdgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gonzales, La. Posts: 20	Btt ...... __________________ 98 Tacoma 4x4 2.7l ( stock 4 now) 2000 Prerunner sr5 trd ( parting out on yt marketplace ) 99 GMC Z71 leather power everything including a$$ warmers ( my dd )

11-06-2009, 11:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Man4God Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 292	What exactly was swapped? The ECU along with all the wiring or just the long block? I assume that the lights on the dash turn on and the starter acts like it wants to engage, right? __________________ '97 4Runner Limited 4x4 w/Locker Grey (Red & Blue) Wire Mod 2Lo Mod Tundra DC Non-TRD front with stock Tundra Tokicos (2.5") Downey 3" rear lift with Monroe Reflex Shocks (Thanks Chaplain!) Soldier for Christ.

11-07-2009, 12:00 AM	#5 (permalink)
eddieleephd Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Diego, Ca., Marietta, Ga. Posts: 305	my big question is the wiring. Did the Mechanic use your wiring harness?? and also were there any wiring splices! modified wiring connections?? there are a few things this could be!! We need to know specifics about the swap if you have no alarm this will not effect start up... bad connections in the wiring at the cam or crank sensors. igniter ,bad ground, compression no fuel?? Fuel pressure, need more info!!! __________________ Flyin High 4:19 and Green!!! '99 3.4L 4x4 All Manual Taco 2.5" lift OME CO and Alcan Leafs Deck Plate Mod. "Soon Hydrogen Injection!"

11-07-2009, 12:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
98trdgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gonzales, La. Posts: 20	no other wiring was replaced. just the block with head , valve covers etc. The ecu and harness were the origional in the p/u. The donor vehicle was a two wheel drive anyway , so ecu would do me no good. From what i know this baby acts like she's ready for action ... it just wont crank and run. Starter turns it over... gettin fire , gettin fuel, getting air for a moment when the key is turned but as soon as it is about to run without the starter's help one of the three drops out. Thats why i'm thinkig it computer controlled. As in a security device stopping it for getting spark or stopping the fuel injectors from opening long enough to run on its own. Also the delayed second try is leading me in this direction. I will be picking it up from the mechanic at 7 oclock am and trying to physically figure it out myself, because he wants to wash his hands of the situation. ... while taking the origionally quoted payment for a running truck. If thats not enough to get someone upset i'd like to have your patients and understanding. Cuz i think that's wrong. thanks for trying to help. Nick. what do you think might be the cause? __________________ 98 Tacoma 4x4 2.7l ( stock 4 now) 2000 Prerunner sr5 trd ( parting out on yt marketplace ) 99 GMC Z71 leather power everything including a$$ warmers ( my dd )

11-07-2009, 12:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
98trdgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gonzales, La. Posts: 20	what i know about the swap As far as i know all connections were just unplugged from old motor and the new one plugged in. No splices . "as far as i know" when i disgused the problem with him( mechanic) he said the physical swap went well and there was no complication at that point. He's done many engine replacements from what he tells me and this one is a first for him. I beleive he's done as many as he claims and through aquaintances i can trust him on that. The fuel pressure will have to wait till monday to be tested. He suggests i take it to a local repair shop to have it put on the computer there but it will be another hundred bucks to only have it analized plus labor for whatever they do. __________________ 98 Tacoma 4x4 2.7l ( stock 4 now) 2000 Prerunner sr5 trd ( parting out on yt marketplace ) 99 GMC Z71 leather power everything including a$$ warmers ( my dd ) Last edited by 98trdgecko; 11-07-2009 at 12:30 AM. Reason: upates/correction

11-07-2009, 12:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
98trdgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gonzales, La. Posts: 20	I also am unsure if there is an aftermarket or factory security system. When i bought it it was in non running condition and it was a deal i couldn't pass up. I paid $1800 for a lower milage truck in great condition other than the kid running it hot. Side note: there were three sets of keys to the truck and none of them had a key fob to lead me to think there would be a security system. __________________ 98 Tacoma 4x4 2.7l ( stock 4 now) 2000 Prerunner sr5 trd ( parting out on yt marketplace ) 99 GMC Z71 leather power everything including a$$ warmers ( my dd )

11-07-2009, 08:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
eddieleephd Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Diego, Ca., Marietta, Ga. Posts: 305	you need to make sure that all of the connections are tight use dielectric. the thing is that the fuel will not work if the spark is not really there or the ecm does not know that it is there. there does seem to be a lot of communication to the ecu. the igniter for instance the ecu tells the igniter to fire then the igniter tells the ecu that it fired if the igniter does not tell the ecu the coil fired the ecu turns the fuel off.then if the cam or crank sensors are not being sensed then it will not run right?? well it is true. there is a way to test these for the cam and crank sensors start by testing at the sensor use a volt meter set to ac and turn the engine over this will tell you if a voltage is present we use ac for this because it is a magnet that moves and creates an ac current if tested with a dc tester it will read a positive then negative and so on but ac will show a constant positive just varying. next we need to check at the ECU connector for the same reading from the cam and crank sensors. if that is good then you will need to move to the next test some thing like the timing is set right not a few teeth out. then the signal from the igniter use a straight pin to pierce the wire or push in with the wire in to the connector and see that you get the right readings to and from the igniter then check at the ecu for the same readings. Do not forget to check all fuses and relays just because they were fine before does not mean they are fine now recently saw a post where some one had a bad relay after work but not before! I will look up the link for where to test at the ecu and post it in a minute! ED the first am still looking for the next http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Repa...ine/terecm.pdf Ok the next for the terminals of ecu for the cam crank sensors http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Repa...on/cip0335.pdf and for the igniter http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Repa...on/cip1300.pdf Now to use the links you need to use the first to know where the terminals are on the ECM plug and which plug the next two will tell you which pin to check and how but do remember to use ac for the cam and crank sensors first test at sensor and then at ecm make sure that they are the same reading then move to the igniter. All these are found http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/index.html and they were found in the circuit inspection section at cip0335 and below except the ecm terminal found at the terecm Best of luck hope this helps at least eliminate a few things if not tell you what you need to know!! __________________ Flyin High 4:19 and Green!!! '99 3.4L 4x4 All Manual Taco 2.5" lift OME CO and Alcan Leafs Deck Plate Mod. "Soon Hydrogen Injection!" Last edited by eddieleephd; 11-07-2009 at 09:42 AM.

11-07-2009, 10:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
98trdgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gonzales, La. Posts: 20	Thanks alot for all the advice! Got it running! After getting it home i tried to buy the service manual from parts store with no luck.So i just picked up the new battery i knew i needed. Got home and popped the hood . Started checkin fuses and swapped out the relays that had the same toyota part numbers to see what happened... nothing new. I did a visual for anything out of the ordinary and found the engine ground to the body was very loose , only about two threads of the bolt were started. This got me lookin even harder for loose wiring. I checked all the connections i could get to and found what appeared to be a gathered set of four ( possibly ground wires for fuel injectors) which all were terminated on one bolt to the front right side of the block near the fuel rail. The bolt , again loose with only a couple threads started, got tightened and i tried to fire it up with the same result. Nothing... turned over but didn,t start. while in the cab i pumped the brake pedal which felt spongey the first time then get more rigid as i pumped it. At the same time i turned the engine over and she spit and sputtered a second then ran on her own.. I thought sweet... untill i saw the huge cloud of smoke coming out of the tail pipe. fogging the neighborhood. Thought i had major problems with the replacement engine but it turns out it was crap built up in the exaust from the last engine that ran hot and lockedup. Smelled like a mix of coolant and oil... blown headgasket soup. After idling for 30 min, 99% of the soup burned out and now she just idles a lil high, around 1100 which i'll handle tomorrow Sometimes i hate to wrench on my own vehicles but i love the pride that comes with getting it done yourself. And it always helps to have knowledgable people to point you in the right direction. thanks again for the help!! nick __________________ 98 Tacoma 4x4 2.7l ( stock 4 now) 2000 Prerunner sr5 trd ( parting out on yt marketplace ) 99 GMC Z71 leather power everything including a$$ warmers ( my dd )

11-08-2009, 09:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
eddieleephd Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Diego, Ca., Marietta, Ga. Posts: 305	glad you got her going!! Link to your FSM http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/index.html for future reference! __________________ Flyin High 4:19 and Green!!! '99 3.4L 4x4 All Manual Taco 2.5" lift OME CO and Alcan Leafs Deck Plate Mod. "Soon Hydrogen Injection!"

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