OutlawMike

Quote: Originally Posted by muddpigg I'd be really cautious, a clogged oil passage will do far more damage than the sludge you removed ever would. I agree with you there. But leaving that much sludge in the heads just seemed wrong. We did not find any large pieces in the pan, so anything that headed down that way was back to a more viscous liquid. Like has been said above, this motor is dead if we do nothing, so, we are trying something. I should be interesting.

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OutlawMike

We do not know if the PO used synthetic or not. My buddy has since he bought it two years ago, but I think the damage was done before then. I think it is a combination of cheap oil, infrequent changes, and the PVC system becoming severely clogged. But, it is what it is at this point. If Jon can get another 10-15k out of the motor, then it is all good.

Mike

98runner210

No one is gonna know for sure but it it was more the consistentsy or grease and there was not really any debris you might be okay for the remaining normal life. I have seen some cars with sludge but kept going strong. Seems to be the ones that have gritty sludge are the ones that are doomed no matter what you do. Saw a WRX fail at 18k miles due to it never having on oil change. The sludge was the texture of playdough

__________________
'98 4Runner Limited White w/ silver flares

BigBallsMcFalls

yeah if there is truly no grit, then run it.



if that was all grit then ...rebuild

KdF

I myself would drop that pan, even tho it ment discinnecting the mounts and raising the engine. If it's that bad up top, I would be mighty skeered it was 5X worse in the pan, especially in the pick-up tube and screen. After doing that, get 3 cans of Sea Foam, and 5 filters and a couple of cases of good oil. run the Sea Foam thru it for 30 min mixed with the oil each time, do this about 5 times, pull the pan again, clean it well, then put the regular oil in it with the new filter. Should be fine after that. Starving ANY engine of oil with a blocked pick-up tube due to sludge will kill it outright.

Just sayin...................

__________________
KdF

In Memory of my Only Son Chris
99 Taco Prerunner
Full OME Suspension Replacement
Poly Bushings (all) replacement
Greasable shackles

mt_goat

Here's a little more info on sludge:

http://www.geocities.com/chrislonghu...oil_bible.html

http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

Best of luck with it.

__________________
~Dale~

93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

Gerdo

The geocitiess the best info on oil that I have ever seen!

__________________
2000 4Runner Sport, 3.4L, 5 Speed, Custom Front Winch Bumper, Opened intake, K&N Airfilter, BFG A/T LT265/70R16, Bilstein Shocks, FreeFlow Exhaust, Poly Rack Mounts & Swaybar Mounts, Tundra TRDs up front and OME 891s out back. ToyTec Panhard Bar Drop. SS Front Diff Drop. Home-built 2x2 Sliders. ARB rear locker, OBA, CO2 See My 4Runner!

OutlawMike

I tend to agree with you on the pan. I would like to get it off and remove as much of this stuff as possible in the pan, to give the motor the best chance to clean itself out after we start it up. My buddy agrees, so, we are going to tackle that this weekend.

I will look into Sea Foam. We will be doing at least 5 oil/filter changes on the first day with some type of additive in the oil, what exactly TBD. Lots of opinions out there on that end.

Thanks,

Mike

OutlawMike

Thanks for the links, we had seen those and got some good info there.

The moral of the story is to run synthetic and to change it every 3k, ignore any longer change interval recommendations.

Thanks,

Mike

OutlawMike

No grit, which was wierd, but reassuring. I must have mashed a cup of that stuff in my palm on Sunday, looking for grit or some type of contaminate. The cam bearings look good. They look like they have 155k miles on them, but they look good. No scoring to speak of, a lightly used surface is what I would describe it as.

Next is the pan and the oil pickup.

Thanks,

Mike

904_runner

I do that with my motor, might be a waste of money, but idk. i change its when it gets dirty, but i won't let it go past 3k. usually change it between 2,000-3,000 miles depend on how hard ive been driving it.


In one of those links, i was reading, it discussed sludge, somewhat enlightening.

__________________
Mike

1990 4runner: 3.4 swapped, 5-speed, sas'd, Rear leaf swap, Locked, 5.29's, 39.5" iroks on Beadlocks, Armor'd

Longfields, Duals coming soon:


My build thread
http://www.yotatech.com/f152/904_run...thread-158746/

http://www.treadlightly.org/

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ery/index.html

youngbuck

http://www.auto-rx.com/

radrace2001

this build up is minimal compared to a vw motor that people haven't taken care of. I have seen this in many vw's and the fix i use is removing the valve cover and scraping off as much of the sludge is i can and clean using a wire brush and brake clean, remove oil pan clean off all sludge and replace the pickup tube or clean the screen if you can. i have seen this to where i had to replace motors from lack of oil pressure i have used a special tool i think from BG service it is a very large external filter and chemicals

youngbuck

LOL! That sounds like a fun job. I'll remember to avoid helping someone work on a VW.

OutlawMike

Following the good advice from many in this thread, we dropped the front differential and got the pan off the motor tonight. We ended up having to jack the motor up about 1" to get the diff out. For some reason Toyota did the rear mount on the diff with a stud, instead of a bolt threading into a captured nut. Because of this stud sticking down, we could not remove the diff without jacking up the motor. Pain in the arse.

So, the bottom end:

[IMG][/IMG]


Oil pickup screen:

[IMG][/IMG]


Oil pickup tube:

[IMG][/IMG]


Gunk in bottom of the pan:

[IMG][/IMG]


The motor had sat since Sunday with 1.5 gallons of #2 diesel in the pan. All of the sludge down in the bottom end is soft, jelly. Not sure if this was due to the diesel soak, or if that is just the way it is. It cleans off with a brush in nothing flat.

We did not find much in the way of bearing material in the bottom of the pan, just a lot of RTV chunks and the sludge. The cast iron surfaces of the block in the bottom end are amazingly clean. The windage tray or baffle was coated severely.

We will be cleaning up the bottom end this weekend, as best we can without removing the motor. From there we plan on getting it back together and then doing a series of oil flushes. The plan is to:

1. Start it with a new filter and a normal fill of dino oil. Run 10 minutes, drain, cut filter open for inspection.

2. Fill with dino oil and a can of BG Quick Clean. Run for 15 minutes, shut down, drain, pull the pan, check the screen, cut the filter open.

3. Fill again with dino oil and another can of BG Quick Clean. Run for 15 minutes, shut down, drain, pull the pan, check the screen, cut the filter open.

4. Fill with dino oil, run for 15 minutes, drain to check the condition of the oil and check the filter.

5. Fill with dino oil, install front diff/CV's, drive for 500 miles, drain, cut open the filter.

6. Fill with dino oil, start Auto-RX cycle.

7. At the end of the Auto-RX cylce, pull the P-side valve cover, see if there is any differnence from when it was buttoned up.


Thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Mike

ARB1977

I would go right to auto rx. Go with the sludge program. Make sure you take some after pics when your done.

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2002 TACOMA 3.4L 102K AND COUNTING

gilby4runner

I remember having similar issues with an old chevy my father owned when i was young. It was a 58 with the "348" (bigblock). We used oven cleaner...looking back it prob. wasnt the best thing to use but we flushed it out and changed the oil a few times and it was good as new.

__________________
2002 Sport- (Sporticus) OME 881 / 906 combo, Full Synthetics, 265/75/16 Geolander AT II's,
Brembo / Hawk combo,and a cool car seat for the future wheeler!

BigBallsMcFalls

Kaboom baby

OutlawMike

Holy crap, I have tears in my eyes, that was seriously funny. I needed that.

Ed H.

i had rtv, sludge, and believe or not a ziptie kill the motor in my old mustang, i did an oil change on it and a couple minutes later lost all oil pressure and had a rod knock.


looks like your doing a good job so far keep up the good work.

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i am pretty much open to anything, atleast until i get lockers.

nvr fnsh

I expect a nice new shop-vac...... And my house key returned.

Brian

OutlawMike

Jon is getting me a new tube for my shopvac, we stuck the old one in the trash tonight. I forgot I had a key to your house, but I was glad that I did, we needed that plate to hold the crank for disassembly.

Jon drove it home tonight, we got it all back together today, flushed with GB Quick Clean, and off on its merry way. We pulled the pan after the second Quick Clean cycle, man, a fairly large amount of sludge had come loose and made it's way to the pan. The pickup was fairly clean, better than I thought it would be.

Thanks for the 1/2 to 3/4" adapter, we needed that to torque the axle nuts with my 1 3/8" 3/4 drive socket. Also, thanks for the 12 mm hex key socket, we could not have gotten the front diff back in without it.

Ok if I hold onto them for a few weeks? The rig might be back over here if something happens.

Thanks Brian,

Mike

iselloil

Looks like another great lube job by pensoil.

Buhundred

Pennzoil is a pretty good motor oil. My dad has been using it in his 4runner since it was new and it has no problems. We just did an oil change using Valvoline MaxLife syn blend and we'll see how good it is. I don't want to start another "What's the best motor oil?" thread again though.

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96' 4Runner SR5

Bone Stock, 100K as of 7-9-09

jdsdj98

Please keep this thread going if anything else happens. Sounds like you got it fairly clean, though. At least considering what it did look like.

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Jamie

2001 Tacoma. Ext. cab. SR5 TRD. 3.4/Auto. 4WD. 101k. Camper shell.

1995.5 Tacoma. Ext. cab. 2.7/5 spd. 4WD. Drove to a head gasket failure at 255k in Dec. '08. Sold it, was repaired and put back on the road.