Oil filter empty on 22re?

mike_d · 05-11-2004, 12:20 PM

Hi guys, this weekend was the first time I changed the oil in my 22RE. the last few times, i had my truck in for major work, i just had my mechanic do the oil too. I'm a little concerned because when i took the filter off, it was empty. There was some residue of oil in it, but other than that it looked like a new filter. I noticed that unlike my other cars, when the filter is on the engine, it's angled so that it looks like it would drain into the engine. I let the truck sit for about 2 hours before I got around to changing the oil. So it is reasonable to assume that in that time all the oil from the filter drained back into the engine, or do i have a big problem with oil not getting pumped into the filter?

thanks!

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outahere · 05-11-2004, 01:38 PM

It's normal, don't worry. Only a small amount of oil is in the filter after 2 hours of sitting. It would be better if the filter were vertical instead of angled, so this is not the best possible design from Toyota.

mike_d · 05-11-2004, 02:38 PM

whew. good to know. on every other car i've ever changed oil on, the filter was tilted the other way and never drained back into the engine. i just wasn't expecting to have the filter be empty.

toy283 · 05-11-2004, 04:13 PM

Just curious but what brand of filter was it?

mike_d · 05-11-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toy283

Just curious but what brand of filter was it?

the one i took of and the one i put on were both toyota oem. i remember reading earlier on here that the non oem filters leak.

jimbo74 · 05-11-2004, 04:30 PM

fram filters blow

SoCal4Running · 05-11-2004, 06:27 PM

Yea Frams are no good, I use WIX 1515 which is twice the capacity of standard filter. Looks like it belongs on a v8 instead of a 4 poper.

foxtrapper · 05-12-2004, 03:12 AM

2 hours of sitting and it was completely empty? That's a strong indication that the filters anti-drain back valve is leaking. You will normally get oil draining from the filter even after a few days of sitting.

In fact, if it was as dry as you make it sound, it would concern me that the filter wasn't even in operation. This can happen if the filter collapses internally, or blinds, opening up the bypass valve.

mike_d · 05-12-2004, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrapper

In fact, if it was as dry as you make it sound, it would concern me that the filter wasn't even in operation. This can happen if the filter collapses internally, or blinds, opening up the bypass valve.

but this would just be a problem with the filter, and nothing with the engine. so now that i have a new filter on there (in theory) everything should be fine? or is there a bypass valve in the engine that i need to worry about too?

outahere · 05-12-2004, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal4Running

Yea Frams are no good, I use WIX 1515 which is twice the capacity of standard filter. Looks like it belongs on a v8 instead of a 4 poper.

The downside to this is that at startup in the morning, it will take longer to fill up the filter with oil and get lubrication to the valvetrain. If you listen carefully, you can notice that valve train noise on the 22RE at startup will last longer with a larger filter than the small Toyota filter.

foxtrapper · 05-13-2004, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_d

but this would just be a problem with the filter, and nothing with the engine. so now that i have a new filter on there (in theory) everything should be fine? or is there a bypass valve in the engine that i need to worry about too?

Yes, this is just a problem with the filter. There is no engine mounted bypass valve.

mike_d · 05-13-2004, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outahere

The downside to this is that at startup in the morning, it will take longer to fill up the filter with oil and get lubrication to the valvetrain. If you listen carefully, you can notice that valve train noise on the 22RE at startup will last longer with a larger filter than the small Toyota filter.

now that you mention it, i did have a lot of valvetrain noise (for about 3-5 minutes) before the filter change, and now there's none. i just attibuted it to the fact that i put synthetic in this time. maybe it was because i had to fill up the filter first.

outahere · 05-13-2004, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_d

now that you mention it, i did have a lot of valvetrain noise (for about 3-5 minutes) before the filter change, and now there's none. i just attibuted it to the fact that i put synthetic in this time. maybe it was because i had to fill up the filter first.

I am talking about valve train clatter that lasts for 1-3 seconds on a normal morning startup, and perhaps 4-6 seconds after installing a new, dry filter with your oil change. If you are getting valve train noise that lasts 3-5 minutes, you should consider removing the valve cover and taking a look at the camshaft, and inspect it for excessive/unusual wear.

Highland Runner · 05-14-2004, 08:30 AM

I started using a Purolator Pure One that has a silicone anti drainback valve. These are better than the rubber and shouldn't leak. I think on Bobistheoilguy site there was talk of who supplied the Toyota filters. It seems you can get a number of different part numbers for the same vehicle. Some of the new ones may not be as good as the old ones. Try using this type of filter and see if the noise goes away.
Its very bad to have an empty filter in a 22re at startup. This is what causes broken timing chains from lack of oil to the chain tensioner.

outahere · 05-14-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highland Runner

I started using a Purolator Pure One that has a silicone anti drainback valve. These are better than the rubber and shouldn't leak. I think on Bobistheoilguy site there was talk of who supplied the Toyota filters. It seems you can get a number of different part numbers for the same vehicle. Some of the new ones may not be as good as the old ones.

Take a good look at any spin on filter, and what do you see in the middle of it? A big threaded hole! When the 22RE motor is turned off, much of the oil volume in the filter drains out through this big hole, and the anti-drainback valve cannot prevent this. There is no anti-drainback valve on this big threaded hole, there is only one on the perimeter of the filter. Toyota's mistake was mounting this filter at a downward angle so that it drains most of its contents. The optimum positioning is vertical, with the filter opening pointing up.

Nic · 05-14-2004, 06:57 PM

Sounds like the exact same thing on my 84 Camry engine-2SE motor. I usually change the oil after letting my car sit overnight. The oil filter is always empty. That way, I don't make a mess. If I run the engine and let it set for about 2 hours, it will be empty too. Any less than that and oil will spill out when I unscrew the filter.

I don't worry about it any more. The car has almost 260,000 miles on it and still doesn't use oil between oil changes.

05-11-2004, 01:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
outahere Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: California Posts: 65	It's normal, don't worry. Only a small amount of oil is in the filter after 2 hours of sitting. It would be better if the filter were vertical instead of angled, so this is not the best possible design from Toyota. Last edited by outahere; 05-11-2004 at 01:45 PM.

05-11-2004, 02:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
mike_d Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mountains outside of Boulder Posts: 612	whew. good to know. on every other car i've ever changed oil on, the filter was tilted the other way and never drained back into the engine. i just wasn't expecting to have the filter be empty. __________________ mike '89 4Runner DLX: 2" OME rear springs, 1 5/8" RB BJ spacers, Diff Drop, 32" MT/R. '90 4Runner SR5: Stock Suspension, 32" MT/R . '07 4Runner SR5: 2" OME Rear Springs, Donahoe Coil Overs, Total Chaos UCA, 275/70-17 MT/R. '76 Jeep CJ-5: 4" Lift, 33" BFG MT. '87 Saab 900S: All stock '99 Subaru Legacy GT: All stock

05-11-2004, 04:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
toy283 Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Denver, CO, US Posts: 1,435	Just curious but what brand of filter was it? __________________ Dave Currently own no Toyotas :(

05-11-2004, 06:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
SoCal4Running Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Oceanside, CA. Posts: 786	Yea Frams are no good, I use WIX 1515 which is twice the capacity of standard filter. Looks like it belongs on a v8 instead of a 4 poper. __________________ '86 4runner 22RE, 5-speed, LC Street EFI head w/ cam, LC Pistons, ARP Head Studs, Downey header, Dynomax 2 1/4" full exhaust, VDO water temp guage, 01-03 Tacoma cd\tape radio with 10" Bazzoka, Downey 2" rear springs, GDI radiator, Torus fan DONE!!!! '68 Ford Mustang Fastback Daily driver with a built 289 and a streetfighter trans.(Retired) 98 Subaru Outback-Took over daily driving duties MicroMatic.com Waco93.com

05-14-2004, 08:30 AM	#14 (permalink)
Highland Runner Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Highlands, NC Posts: 682	I started using a Purolator Pure One that has a silicone anti drainback valve. These are better than the rubber and shouldn't leak. I think on Bobistheoilguy site there was talk of who supplied the Toyota filters. It seems you can get a number of different part numbers for the same vehicle. Some of the new ones may not be as good as the old ones. Try using this type of filter and see if the noise goes away. Its very bad to have an empty filter in a 22re at startup. This is what causes broken timing chains from lack of oil to the chain tensioner. __________________ Chris Mine-94 SR5 4-Runner, 3.0, 4X4, Aisin Hubs, Yakima Load Warrior, 210k Miles \| Wifes-99 Limited

05-11-2004, 04:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
jimbo74 Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nor*Cal Posts: 6,582	fram filters blow

05-12-2004, 03:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
foxtrapper Guest Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 315	2 hours of sitting and it was completely empty? That's a strong indication that the filters anti-drain back valve is leaking. You will normally get oil draining from the filter even after a few days of sitting. In fact, if it was as dry as you make it sound, it would concern me that the filter wasn't even in operation. This can happen if the filter collapses internally, or blinds, opening up the bypass valve.

05-14-2004, 06:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
Nic Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Decatur, Alabama Posts: 1,038	Sounds like the exact same thing on my 84 Camry engine-2SE motor. I usually change the oil after letting my car sit overnight. The oil filter is always empty. That way, I don't make a mess. If I run the engine and let it set for about 2 hours, it will be empty too. Any less than that and oil will spill out when I unscrew the filter. I don't worry about it any more. The car has almost 260,000 miles on it and still doesn't use oil between oil changes. __________________ Nic 1997 Tacoma 4X4 Xtra Cab 2.7L 5 speed

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