pineapple

Sorry if I missed this in the countless threads, but is there a particular brand of ball joints (upper and lower) for '99 Taco 4x4 that anyone would recommend NOT using. I thought about going to Azone or ordering from Rock Auto. Thanks

rworegon

Recommendation: Toyota OE only, IMHO.
Others opinion may differ.

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

X2. There was a thread a while back about autozone ball joints lasting just a few years.
It may cost more using OEM parts but do you want to be back in there in a few years doing the same work?

Jomoka

X 3. OEM Toyota parts counter.

Failure mode is catastrophic. Some aftermarket balljoints ave failed in fairly short order.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

As soon as my school taxes are paid I am ordering mine from my Toyota dealer.

If that was not a option my next choice would be Napa Chassis Parts line

Nelsonmd

To me it's not about coming back for the same work, it's about the part failing prematurely (without being able to predict it). See next quote...

And this is why, it's a catastrophic failure mode. This was a major design flaw IMO, and I think Toyota agreed as they completely redesigned the ball joints for the 4th gen to not allow this kind of failure to be what the industry considers "catastrophic"

I would agree that Napa premium would be my next choice, but I am not super confident in even the Napa ones. The issue for me is that I think Toyota used a high grade steel in or heat treated the ball in order to deal with the design flaw, and those things will be the first to go when a low-cost aftermarket guy is trying undercut the cost of the OEM replacement. You can't see the difference, and you can't feel it, but the difference is there, and it could easily be the difference between catastrophic failure and no failure.

Don't skimp on this component. You can skimp on many other components, even some chassis components, but not the LBJ's.

Jomoka

Indeed. The balljoint on the 4th gen is upside down (compared to the 3rd gen).

On the 3rd gen, the car is hanging from that ball joint, if it gets too loose, the ball pops out at the first opportunity.

On the 4th gen, the weight of the car is pressing the ball into the cup/base. It it gets loose, it will probably start making grinding noises, clunking noises. You could probably drive it like that for a while until an unlucky bounce of the wheel finally bounces the ball out of the cup.

Texas_Ace

X100, OEM or nothing.

Used the Moog or whatever off brand joints and they broke in 5-10k miles and maybe 1-2 years tops. Now my truck is still parked due to that and I need ~$1000 to fix it. Would have been much cheaper to get OEM to start with.

Keith B.

The balljoints aren't even a particularly expensive part. There is no excuse not to use OEM.

DailyDrive

It's a design flaw in the sense that it does not account for complete idiots. Toyota fixed that. Just like they did with the floormats that now physically are clipped in.

Ball joints take 10+ years to wear out, and they don't fail unexpectedly if the proper LBJ inspection procedure is performed. It's no different than not checking that your driveshaft bolts are tight, and then having the driveshaft fall off and capapult the truck into the air.

Nelsonmd

I disagree. It is a design flaw in the sense that it requires a higher cost part in order to not fail catastrophically and prematurely when there are other similarly feasible/cost design options available to them.

I think that Toyota found that they needed fancy steel with either heat treatment or something like that in order to be able to stand up to the forces it is expected to see in operation. A better design would be one that allows Toyota to not use such fancy expensive steel and not have a premature failure. I think that that design is available, and it is the 4th gen design.

The fancy ones may take a long time to fail, I won't say 10 years because it is probably more about mileage, but as an automotive engineer, I can tell you that the more forgiving design is the better one.

You're right about the comparison to the drive shaft in the severity perhaps, but the occurrence is way lower the DS bolts are not maintenance items, the DS doesn't have to be replaced, it can be maintained in-situ). I'd actually argue that the severity is lower too, so the RPN for the DS failure is way lower than the LBJ. Maintenance is definitely a factor, but vehicles are designed to account for poor maintenance wherever possible. It's like a feature package; you can have one that you have to maintain or it will kill you, or you can have one that may break down with no maintenance, but it won't kill you.

The mats were not the cause of the acceleration problem that Toyota blamed on them. That was a legal and publicity scapegoat.

DailyDrive

They most certainly are. It's right in that little maintenance booklet that came with every new 4Runner.

Bolts should be tightened every X miles. If someone drives a 4runner for 10+ years and never checks the bolts and they come loose, is that a design flaw?

The same with the "flawed" LBJ design. It's a tradeoff between reliability and something else. I'd suspect that LBJ hanging below the control arms is not as good for offroading as the old design.

Let's be honest here, the 4th gen's target demographic is very different than the demographic for a 4Runner in 1996 when it came out.

Texas_Ace

before mine failed I checked it repeatedly as I thought something was just not quite "right" with that side and I was getting a squeak from there sometimes.

Even checking and looking for an issue I could not tell the ball joint was bad, there was no play ect. A few days later, it failed.

So even regular maintenance can't find everything.

DailyDrive

It sounds like you checked with your eyes.

Texas_Ace

No, it looks like your eyes didn't read the whole post.

I jacked it and felt for play but there was not any.

he's gone

any chance worn ball joints could cause a pulsing or vibration when braking?

I did the tundra brake upgrade to my 97 4Runner and am having a hard time believing I warped the rotors. Everything was fine for a couple of years, but recently this developed. I do tow about 3500 pounds of John Deere or hardwood mulch from time to time.

DailyDrive

How did you feel it? WIth your fingers?

Texas_Ace

Most likely warped them. I warped mine in the first week, mostly due to parking with hot rotors. Till they are bedded it is important to not park the car until the rotors are cool.

I know how to check for worn ball joints. I pushed and pulled on the wheel as hard as I could. There was no slack.

Due to the design the ball is pulled into the opening of the socket and even if that opening is getting wider due to ware, it will still be tight until it pulls though.

Heck after it failed I pressed the thing back into the socket and it held just long enough for me to drive the truck into the driveway.

DailyDrive

Nope, you don't know how to check them.

Per the Toyota service manual maximum play for ball joints is 0.02". You measure that with a dial gauge. Not eyeing it! You won't see even 100% wear, let alone 50% wear which would be 0.005" play.

And that's why your truck is on the ground now. Being a dilettante as far as maintenance is the the #1 cause of LBJ failures.

he's gone

as soon as they were installed, i took off down a 4 lane country highway and did some procedure that was supposed to get them bedded in. basically, from full highway speed brake as hard has you can w/o engaging the anti lock system and without coming to a full stop, accelerate and do it again, and again, and again.

Can't remember how many times i did it, but the idea was to get them super heated to the point they start to fade. Then, making sure not to stop, let them cool down.

this might be hocus pocus, but i read it multiple places online, probably even here.

Besides, the brakes have been on there for at least 2 years, probably more like 3, and the problem just started.

Sorry for the temporary thread jack. I was just wondering if the vibration might be the ball joints. I really need to get the old girl in for a good once over.