jonykarate

I have a few questions that I’ve been reading around a lot to find answers too. I have unfortunately found myself a bit confused on just a few things and I was hoping that someone in this great forum could possible steer me in the right direction.

I just purchased a 2000 4Runner V6 3.4L supercharged SR5 w/ 4x4, and I'm a little worried about the dealer-installed supercharger. It is the TRD Gen. 2 supercharger, but i'm not sure what supporting mods if any have been installed (how can I find out? Is there something I can look for to know if I have the 7th injector upgrade? Upgraded Fuel Pump? I’m new, sorry for my painfully basic questions) . The truck has 110,000 miles on it, and I believe it has had the supercharger installed for all of them. I read the article at gadgetonline.com about keeping your supercharger running well over 100,000 miles, and I plan on following his advice. I am new to the 4runner arena, and I'm trying to learn as much as I can as quickly as I can.

Question 1: On URD’s site, they have a few packages available on this page: http://www.urdusa.com/index.php?cPath=1_3 . Do I need to get the URD Toyota 3.4L Truck Supercharger Fuel Upgrade Kit, as well as the URD Toyota Truck 7th Injector Upgrade Kit? Or will the URD Toyota 3.4L Truck Supercharger Fuel Upgrade Kit include everything that the 7th injector upgrade kit would have?

Question 2: After driving around for a while in the city, I noticed that my exhaust is pushing out VERY hot air. Is this something to be concerned about? Is this normal? From what I have read I need to get an EGT gauge. Is this a pretty easy DIY install for a novice? Or should I take it to the local shop and get it done?

Question 3: I notice when I was merging traffic today, that the supercharger started to whine, but it also had a bit of a rattle. Is this a tell tale sign of something bad?

Question 4: I don’t know how the previous owners drove the car (lead foot?) but I would like to make sure they didn’t do any major damage. I don’t know of any shops in my area that specialize in Toyotas other than the authorized Toyota Locations. Are they trust worthy? Or do they know that Toyota let their dealerships strap on superchargers to these 4Runners without any supporting mods and know to keep their mouth shut and say everything is fine? I want to make sure I don’t get screwed and get the proper maintenance needed to keep things running well.


I would rather not have to put in a ton of money and mods into my runner just to keep the supercharger running, but it looks as though this is definitely going to be an investment. Whenever I read the threads on here, one person says all you need is the VB mod, Trans Cooler, and URD Kit to run safe. Then another person posts and adds some more to that list, and then another and so on. Are those three things enough? (Including a tune after they are installed) I would like to install the basics to ensure a good running truck. Will this cover it? Thank you for your help! (sorry this is soo long!)

-J-

mastacox

The "Toyota 3.4L Truck Supercharger Fuel Upgrade Kit" is for if you have a supercharger, but no other supporting fuel modifications. it has everything you need (except a laptop for tuning). The "URD Toyota Truck 7th Injector Upgrade Kit" is for if you have the 7th injector kit, but want to be able to tune your timing and fuel maps, and want a better fuel pump.


Hmm, I wouldn't say it will be an easy install. The "VERY" hot air worries me too. You have to drill a hole in your exhaust, mount the probe, and then wire the guage and associated stuff. That being said, it is pretty straight forward in what you have to do, given the correct instruction, tools, and time.

Sounds like ping to me, which would be very bad. Your truck is probably running very lean and is begging for more fuel. This would also help explain the super hot exhaust... The URD kit can take care of this.

Well, there's really not much of an inspection that can be done without taking the engine apart. But based on the fact that you have ping right now, this <could> be bad. Someone else might chime in for more info.

Yup, those three mods will make your truck a nice beast, while still being able to run efficiently and reliably. You probably will want an EGT gauge and an AFR gauge to aid in tuning also.

Theoretically, you could get a stock intake and take off the supercharger to avoid paying for the upgrades. Of course, it depends on how much you like the supercharger. it has been said and said again: "You have to pay to play."

RunnerUp

you need to sell your supercharger to me, and not worry about it

mastacox

LOL there you go! Way cheaper, and everyone wins!

jonykarate

Thank you for the prompt response and great answers I just have a few follow up questions. I don't have the money right now for the upgrades, but I would like to keep the s/c on. If i drive very conservatively and stay out of boost range, can I theoretically drive safe without harming the internals until I have the money to afford the upgrades? I can only get the upgrades one at a time with my current financial situation. What is the most critical upgrade that I should purchase first? (I assume the URD Fuel Kit) When I purchase these upgrades, would I have an authorized Toyota shop install them? Any suggestions on shops/mechanics in the LA area (near Brentwood preferably) that I could go to? Thanks again for all the help

mastacox

You can theoretically drive around conservatively for a little bit, but you are tempting disaster... It sounds to me like your engine is having a rough time.

The first thing you need by far is the URD kit, you can go easy on the tranny until you get the dough for the VB upgrade. I doubt a dealer will install the stuff, you need to find a good mechanic or hot rod shop. Plan on spending about $400-500 to have it installed too...

The transmission cooler is pretty cheap, by the way.

jonykarate

Alright, I'm getting a loan from work and getting the URD kit installed ASAP. Now I just need to find a good mechanic Thank you for all of the great advice!

mastacox

Wow, alrighty then!

Have fun with the power... Remember you'll want access to a laptop to tune your engine for your application. Talk to the people at URD. You might want some gauges also, otherwise you can't really tune the motor.

jonykarate

Quick Question. I could afford to install the URD 7th injector kit much sooner than the URD fuel upgrade kit. I do not plan on modding my truck heavily, and I do not trust myself to do a lot of tuning just yet. The only mods I would like to make other than the VB, Tans cooler, and URD kit would be the URD supergrip 2.2" pulley mod. Would the 7th injector kit handle all of this, give me the fuel that I need, and keep everything running smoothly? Thanks again. you guys are great!

midiwall

Wait... we need to determine if you have the 7th injector. The URD kit you're looking at is an add-on to the 7th, it isn't _the_ 7th.

Here's the install instructions for the 7th... it should help you figure out if you have it or not.
http://www.customtacos.com/tech/index.php?article=170


Yeah, none of us did.


The STOCK 7th kit will work fine with the STOCK pulley setup. It will be close to being able to handle the 2.2" pulley. If you get the URD 7th _add-on_ as well, then yes, you can definitely handle the 2.2" pulley.


Now, if you do NOT have the 7th, then we need to talk you through the 3 basic options to getting more fuel into your engine. Let us know!

spike

Man, you are in the same place as me. It is such a disappointment that Toyota let us down like that with the "dealer option" install of the TRD superchargers, without proper mods or settings.

jonykarate

I printed the 7th install guide and I'm going to take a look under the hood tonight and see if I can find some signs of the 7th Injector Kit. Is there anything that really stands and would be a definite sign of the 7th injector being installed?

Spike: It really is a let down! I wish I had found this forum before I bought the truck. though I would have gotten it anyways The s/c is amazing. Did yours not have the 7th injector kit when you bought it? How much work have you put into yours so far to get it working safe?

midiwall

Yeup.. You should be able to pop the hood and look at the back of the S/C. Reference the install instructions to see where the injector itself fits (it's a port at the top rear of the S/C). If there's something sticking out of there, it's the 7th.

edit: You're looking for the place described in Figure 3 on Page 3 of the instructions. That's where the injector mounts.

spike

Like you, I didn't find this site until I had already bought it. I normally do my homework before buying, but Toyota is just so renowned for overbuilding engines and safe tuning. So when I heard the S/C was installed by the dealership, I let my guard down and didn't sweat it. I figured I didn't have to check into a hackjob or poorly executed setup. I was expecting that there would be some more power/torque left in there if I wanted to do upgrades. I just got it this week and haven't done anything yet. I'm going to look for the 7th, but I'm not expecting to find one there. I just posted the same questions two days ago that you are now asking. Midiwall and others were a great help. I like this community.

Kevin

rimpainter.com

Well if it's any consolation, you guys are also sitting on a nice wad of cash. On ebay, the S/C can fetch $1K to $1.5 (used). If you get a Magnuson rebuild like I did, you can basically sell it "as new" which will fetch around $1500+ usually.

In fact, if I purchased a S/C'd 4Runner with no fuel/timing mods and I couldn't afford the fuel/timing mods (or just didn't want to spend the money), I would pull the SC'r, put the 4R back to stock, and sell the SC'r. You could do some pretty cool things with $1K to $1.5K.

jonykarate

96 Runner: I have thought about taking it out and selling but, but I honostely love the power available from the S/C. I have also always been very interested in tuning/modding my cars, but I never had a vehicle that I actually wanted to put money into. I now have that vehicle, so I'm more than happy to put the money down. I wanted to start small however, and work my way into larger mods, learning about my truck a long the way. So now I just want to get the S/C supported with the fuel + trann mods and get back to the small stuff.

Spike: I just got mine this week as well and did the exact same thing you did when I saw the S/C. Where are you located? Keep me posted on how everything goes with your upgrades.

midiwall

Lemme tease you with something...

I've been S/C'd now for about 2 years. I've never done the tranny mods.

About 3 months ago I replaced my tranny 'cause the 1->2 shift was pretty bad. I replaced it with one that (supposedly) had 75k on it. 3 months later (so, present day) this one is slipping too. Now, I THINK that this tranny was abused to begin with, or it had more than 75k on it, but... regardless, something has to happen 'cause it's only going to get worse.


I talked to IPT yesterday about options.. If I get the VB work down now, it will NOT stop the slipping that's already happening. It won't make it worse on it's own necessarily, but given that things will now lock up tighter, it could trash the rest of the tranny sooner.

The option I'm looking at right now is to send the whole original tranny out to IPT and let them rebuild it to be bulletproof. John can promise success at beyond 400bhp - which is where I'm headed. Cost? $3550 for the rebuild work, about $500 in shipping round-trip, figure $100 in Amsoil tranny fluid, and $$$ to a buddy to _again_ help me put a tranny in this truck.


Bottom line... I would STRONGLY STRONGLY STRONGLY recommend that you put the VB work WAY up at the top of your list.

mt_goat

Oh boy, hind sight is 20-20 isn't it.

mastacox

Ain't that the truth... VB upgrade is directly behind URD stuff for me so I hope to be ok

midiwall

You kinda said the same thing in the other thread, and I wanted to take a minute and stand up for Toyota/TRD.

There's nothing hacky about the design of the physical S/C. It's a substantial piece that will hold up forever with minimal maintenance. TRD should be applauded for coming up with something like this that is so easy to install and yet generates so much power. If you wanna see something hacky, look at any of the turbo systems out there for our engines.

One thing on "your side" though.. the port that the 7th installs into has been there since day one. Many folks have noted "hmmm, how long had Toyota planned for this?" which of course becomes assumptions about how Toyota/TRD _knew_ that there was a problem at the design phase. Now, TRD's position on this point is that they had always planned to give the consumer a way to extract more power from their S/C. That smells of a marketing spin, but it could be true.


Where this thing falls apart is in fuel management and ECU support, and it's generally worse in older trucks than newer trucks. e.g., Data has shown that people with early 3rd gens (like 96_Runner and myself) report more issues with pinging and lean-out than folks with (appx) 1999 and newer trucks.

Toyota/TRD has never confirmed that there was a programming change in the ECUs, but it's quite possible that there was. One piece of evidence to support this point is that the stock HP ratings changed around then, which could be attributed to the ECU dumping a bit more fuel into the engine and some more advanced timing.

In my eyes, the "fault" here is that a) Toyota/TRD doesn't admit to there being a fuel delivery/slack timing issue in S/C installs; b) T/TRD won't publish (what many believe to be) critical information about the supposed ECU changes in later years; c) T/TRD won't make a statement confirming "the symptoms" (ping and leanout) being fixed by one of the various piggyback methods that consumers have generally had to come up with on their own.


You also said this elsewhere...

There _IS_ more power/torque left in a S/C'd engine - even with the "stock" TRD 7th Injector bandaid. The "stock' TRD mods to extract it are adding headers and/or opening up the exhaust. TRD sells products to do these things.

If you want to go beyond this point, now we're back to talking about aftermarket solutions from SplitSecond (which is what URD packages), PerfectPower (the SMT-6), high power ignitions, cam shafts, etc. This side of the game is NO different than a product from ANY OTHER car manufacturer on the planet. Want more power out of your Ferarri or VW Bug? You're gonna do similar things...