New rotors
08-04-2005, 09:54 AM
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New rotors
Well I live in the mountains and have an 8 mile and 3,000 ft climb/desent from work everyday and I am tired of my rotors warping so I bought these.Anybody else running them?How much longer should they last without warping?I just need to find a good,semi cheap set of calipers and pads.
Last edited by JEDI87; 08-04-2005 at 09:56 AM.
08-04-2005, 09:58 AM
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Ad hype aside, they won't last any longer just because they are drilled and slotted. They could last longer if they are higher quality and if the venting inside (the vanes between the inner and outer braking surfaces) is superior. Holes and slots don't really do anything but look good - the "cooling effect" is a myth and is only ad hype.
Try downshifting and staying off the brakes more...
Try downshifting and staying off the brakes more...
08-04-2005, 10:09 AM
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i HATE my warped rotors. they really annoy me and have been getting worse and worse.
im thinking of going with brembo..... but i need to do more research first. share your impressions of your new ones later on if possible
im thinking of going with brembo..... but i need to do more research first. share your impressions of your new ones later on if possible
08-04-2005, 10:33 AM
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I'm in agreement with Flamedx4 after giving this more thought in that the cross drilling and slotting of rotors seems to be purely for aesthetic appeal only and have no real increased braking ability.
I reached this conclusion from the common sense perspective that any breaks in the structural integrity of an object usually promotes structural weakness and/or fraility, or "warping", as the case may be.
So once again, we the consumers find that we are taken in by the corporate hype intent on fattening it's pockets by feeding off of our gulability and desire to have "better" by seeling us the same substandard crap concealed with different packaging and a higher price tag.
If the automotive industry really wanted to do us a favor they would increase the integrity of the material that they use to manufacture rotors and sell us that because there's nothing "aesthectic" in an automobile accident from a failed braking system due to substandard material integrity, no matter how "cool" it looks.
I reached this conclusion from the common sense perspective that any breaks in the structural integrity of an object usually promotes structural weakness and/or fraility, or "warping", as the case may be.
So once again, we the consumers find that we are taken in by the corporate hype intent on fattening it's pockets by feeding off of our gulability and desire to have "better" by seeling us the same substandard crap concealed with different packaging and a higher price tag.
If the automotive industry really wanted to do us a favor they would increase the integrity of the material that they use to manufacture rotors and sell us that because there's nothing "aesthectic" in an automobile accident from a failed braking system due to substandard material integrity, no matter how "cool" it looks.
Last edited by 94x4; 08-04-2005 at 10:40 AM.
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08-04-2005, 10:53 AM
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"100 bucks..." and that includes shipping!??!
That alone should tell you that they are substandard. Don't get me wrong, enjoy them while they last, just understand that a decent pair of rotors would run you $300, $5-600 for a set of high grade, high tensile strength, high density stainless steel rotors.
But you can't beat a bill for some stopping power for awhile I guess.
That alone should tell you that they are substandard. Don't get me wrong, enjoy them while they last, just understand that a decent pair of rotors would run you $300, $5-600 for a set of high grade, high tensile strength, high density stainless steel rotors.
But you can't beat a bill for some stopping power for awhile I guess.
08-04-2005, 11:17 AM
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I say this all the time, and most think I'm crazy, however OEM toyota discs and pads are the best quality for the money.
of course you could say this is my opinion, but I like oem better than brembo's. My oem's seem to outlast other's in muddy conditions also.
just my 2c
of course you could say this is my opinion, but I like oem better than brembo's. My oem's seem to outlast other's in muddy conditions also.
just my 2c
08-04-2005, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 94x4
I'm in agreement with Flamedx4 after giving this more thought in that the cross drilling and slotting of rotors seems to be purely for aesthetic appeal only and have no real increased braking ability.
I reached this conclusion from the common sense perspective that any breaks in the structural integrity of an object usually promotes structural weakness and/or fraility, or "warping", as the case may be.
So once again, we the consumers find that we are taken in by the corporate hype intent on fattening it's pockets by feeding off of our gulability and desire to have "better" by seeling us the same substandard crap concealed with different packaging and a higher price tag.
If the automotive industry really wanted to do us a favor they would increase the integrity of the material that they use to manufacture rotors and sell us that because there's nothing "aesthectic" in an automobile accident from a failed braking system due to substandard material integrity, no matter how "cool" it looks.
I reached this conclusion from the common sense perspective that any breaks in the structural integrity of an object usually promotes structural weakness and/or fraility, or "warping", as the case may be.
So once again, we the consumers find that we are taken in by the corporate hype intent on fattening it's pockets by feeding off of our gulability and desire to have "better" by seeling us the same substandard crap concealed with different packaging and a higher price tag.
If the automotive industry really wanted to do us a favor they would increase the integrity of the material that they use to manufacture rotors and sell us that because there's nothing "aesthectic" in an automobile accident from a failed braking system due to substandard material integrity, no matter how "cool" it looks.
08-04-2005, 12:00 PM
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I will be eventually apgrading but these will do for now as I just put $2,500 into the engine.I just need something to stop me now.I will look at that website geneius,thanks.
08-04-2005, 12:14 PM
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Just my two cents...
I kept warping my front rotors. Turned out that my back brakes were not adjusted correctly. Once I fixed the back brakes, my truck stopped warping the front rotors.
I kept warping my front rotors. Turned out that my back brakes were not adjusted correctly. Once I fixed the back brakes, my truck stopped warping the front rotors.
08-04-2005, 12:16 PM
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Not to be an ass, but you guys should do a little research before you post up untrue facts. Go to google and type in "benefits of slotted rotors". Iv'e been racing cars for a long time and I promise you they make a difference. Maybe not on a 4runner that tops out at 80 MPH(mine does anyway ) but when your braking at the end of the quarter mile after trapping 125+ MPH and need to stop before you hit the wall at the end, you will notice.
) but when your braking at the end of the quarter mile after trapping 125+ MPH and need to stop before you hit the wall at the end, you will notice.
08-04-2005, 12:32 PM
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I hang out with automotive engineers who qualify as experts and testify at trials (as do I in a related field) and have learned a lot over the years.
You have think about heat transfer and airflow to "get the picture."
Brakes convert kinetic energy to heat. Simply put, thicker rotors could accept more heat before overheating. Too thick though and they may not get up to the best temperature for efficient braking, and also could get overly heavy thus affecting performance of the suspension as well as then being able to absorb so much heat that it would take too long to shed it.
Removing material from the mass of the heat sink (the rotors) in the form of holes and slots reduces the amount of steel that can accept heat. Further, when they heat up, these breaks in the structure can be prone to allow cracks to start.
Then the rotors must shed that heat. Vented rotors shed this heat quite well by causing airflow through the middle of the rotors. They will do this at any rotation speed and do it very efficiently. The braking surface can be accepting heat while they do this. Holes spinning at high speeds do not afford any airflow through them at all, the air flowing over the holes would skip right over the stagnant "spot" and do nothing much to exhange this hot air in the "pocket" with the air flowing over it. Even if they did the effect wouldn't amount to much at all - too small an area in those holes to shed much heat.
Holes were invented many years ago when brakes pads generated gases that could cause them to float over the surface and not generate enough friction. Modern pads don't have this problem.
Slots work a little better than holes at forcing some airflow, but still not much - not enough to make the brakes more efficient to any reasonable degree. They only would tend to cool the area immediately at the slots and do nothing for the overall surface. And incidently, the brake pads don't need cooling, in fact they need to maintain a high temperature to work effectively.
So, for street vehicles there is no measureable braking benefit to be gained from holes or slots. They do look cool though. (pun intended.)
Formula 1 etc are so highly advanced and so entirely different that they are entirely irrelevant to street cars. For one, their brakes do not even work at street speeds - they would not even heat the friction material to the point is 'grabs' when braking from street speeds. Anecdote: Years ago when I raced motorcycles (750 Superbikes early 80s) a friend of mine put Kawasaki racing brakes (ceramics) on his street bike. He crashed. The brakes could not even heat up enough to work properly, they stopped him at 40 but not at 75. Kawasaki would only sell those brakes to AMA certified Expert level riders, presumably to ensure they didn't end up on street bikes. Pity as a rider he wasn't also mechanically minded, he might have saved himself that crash. So why does Formula 1 use slotted rotors? My guess is that since they will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to find ways to shave ounces off the weight of things, they use drilled rotors to save weight. And let's face it, they only have to work long enough to complete one race.
That's my 2 cents.
You have think about heat transfer and airflow to "get the picture."
Brakes convert kinetic energy to heat. Simply put, thicker rotors could accept more heat before overheating. Too thick though and they may not get up to the best temperature for efficient braking, and also could get overly heavy thus affecting performance of the suspension as well as then being able to absorb so much heat that it would take too long to shed it.
Removing material from the mass of the heat sink (the rotors) in the form of holes and slots reduces the amount of steel that can accept heat. Further, when they heat up, these breaks in the structure can be prone to allow cracks to start.
Then the rotors must shed that heat. Vented rotors shed this heat quite well by causing airflow through the middle of the rotors. They will do this at any rotation speed and do it very efficiently. The braking surface can be accepting heat while they do this. Holes spinning at high speeds do not afford any airflow through them at all, the air flowing over the holes would skip right over the stagnant "spot" and do nothing much to exhange this hot air in the "pocket" with the air flowing over it. Even if they did the effect wouldn't amount to much at all - too small an area in those holes to shed much heat.
Holes were invented many years ago when brakes pads generated gases that could cause them to float over the surface and not generate enough friction. Modern pads don't have this problem.
Slots work a little better than holes at forcing some airflow, but still not much - not enough to make the brakes more efficient to any reasonable degree. They only would tend to cool the area immediately at the slots and do nothing for the overall surface. And incidently, the brake pads don't need cooling, in fact they need to maintain a high temperature to work effectively.
So, for street vehicles there is no measureable braking benefit to be gained from holes or slots. They do look cool though. (pun intended.)
Formula 1 etc are so highly advanced and so entirely different that they are entirely irrelevant to street cars. For one, their brakes do not even work at street speeds - they would not even heat the friction material to the point is 'grabs' when braking from street speeds. Anecdote: Years ago when I raced motorcycles (750 Superbikes early 80s) a friend of mine put Kawasaki racing brakes (ceramics) on his street bike. He crashed. The brakes could not even heat up enough to work properly, they stopped him at 40 but not at 75. Kawasaki would only sell those brakes to AMA certified Expert level riders, presumably to ensure they didn't end up on street bikes. Pity as a rider he wasn't also mechanically minded, he might have saved himself that crash. So why does Formula 1 use slotted rotors? My guess is that since they will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to find ways to shave ounces off the weight of things, they use drilled rotors to save weight. And let's face it, they only have to work long enough to complete one race.
That's my 2 cents.
Last edited by Flamedx4; 08-04-2005 at 12:37 PM.
08-04-2005, 12:51 PM
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Flamedx4 is basically right here. Cross drilling and slotting decreases the rotor's heat transfer ability. You see it for a couple of reasons on high performance cars.
Cross drilling has a couple of benefits. Like Flamed said, helps gases escape, but more importantly it reduces unsprung weight. We could be talking about maybe a couple of pounds, but in competition this is important.
Slotting helps reduce glazing on the pads. The slot edges continuously scrape the pad faces.
Neither has anything to do with reducing heat in the rotors and in fact cross drilling means that you need to be even more careful not to warp the rotors. That is why F1 and Indy rotors are carbon fiber or other equally exotic material.
It's really only aesthetic on street cars.
Cross drilling has a couple of benefits. Like Flamed said, helps gases escape, but more importantly it reduces unsprung weight. We could be talking about maybe a couple of pounds, but in competition this is important.
Slotting helps reduce glazing on the pads. The slot edges continuously scrape the pad faces.
Neither has anything to do with reducing heat in the rotors and in fact cross drilling means that you need to be even more careful not to warp the rotors. That is why F1 and Indy rotors are carbon fiber or other equally exotic material.
It's really only aesthetic on street cars.
08-04-2005, 12:59 PM
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add another 2 cents to flamedx4 and davindenver's take on slotted/cross-drilled rotors.
as for the original warping problem...another thing is to make sure your lug nuts are evenly torqued (to the recommended torque)...and don't buy the cheapest rotors you can find.
as for the original warping problem...another thing is to make sure your lug nuts are evenly torqued (to the recommended torque)...and don't buy the cheapest rotors you can find.
08-04-2005, 01:11 PM
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If you steer clear of comments by companies trying to sell you drilled rotors and look at factual data from car builders and testers and automotive engineers etc you will fin very few who claim there are benefits from drilling.
I agree with this guy - you can agree with whoever you want.
http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.html
As long as we both have brakes that work we can both be happy. By the way, mine are stock with 216k on them and are not warped... Went 240k on the 85 4Runner rotors. I think arielB1 and littleredyota have the right ideas...
and by the way, Formula 1 and Nascar rotors are typically not drilled or slotted. Most are smooth as can be. But then they are not using the same technology we are...
I agree with this guy - you can agree with whoever you want.
http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.html
As long as we both have brakes that work we can both be happy. By the way, mine are stock with 216k on them and are not warped... Went 240k on the 85 4Runner rotors. I think arielB1 and littleredyota have the right ideas...
and by the way, Formula 1 and Nascar rotors are typically not drilled or slotted. Most are smooth as can be. But then they are not using the same technology we are...
Last edited by Flamedx4; 08-04-2005 at 01:14 PM.
08-04-2005, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 93_Runner
How can drilled and slotted rotors just be hype from the manufacturers. I feel that if companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini are running drilled and slotted rotors on their $100,000 and up cars, they they must do something to help the stopping of your vehicle. Do you think that the F1 teams, who have millions to spend on their cars, would be running drilled and slotted rotors if they didn't perform better than solid blanks? I don't think so. They might spend a lot of money, but if they can get the same performance and save a little cash I'm sure they would jump all over it.
Such is often not the case for other automotive parts manufacturers as they're more geared towards "quantity" over quality.
Last edited by 94x4; 08-04-2005 at 02:28 PM.
