New Driveshaft!?

AndroT100 · 01-11-2004, 08:11 AM

My earlier post:

"I went by my Toyota dealer today and with my 4runner up on the rack spoke with their head technician/specialist. He went online into their service database and printed-out the specs for the maintenance and grease required for the driveshaft and the slip joints for me. The specs require "NGLI 2 Lithium grease for the U-joints and the same with moly disulfide for the slip yokes" as khaug reported...but for 2003/2004!

Here is where it gets a bit different...he asked if I would let him leave it as it is...virgin as he put it...so he could speak with the So CA Toyota engineers as they had asked him if had any 2003 owners complaining about the clunk in the brakes and/or driveline. Seems they may want to take my driveshafts and give me new ones, or take the rig for a day of testing. He further said that filling the slip joints to the max with grease actually is harmful for the transfer case because the forces usually absorbed by the greased slip joint are transferred to the transfer case. They have had cases of cracked transfer cases because of "over greased" slip joints.

Bottom line is that he asked me to leave it as it is from the factory until next week when he will have the oportunity to speak with Toyota's engineers. I am going to put 1500 or 2000 miles on it this week on a trip...wanted it double-checked grease-wise prior to leaving...now nothing has been done...he said not to worry, the u-joints and slip joints are greased well at the factory.

Thoughts?!"

And now:

I received a call from Ventura Toyata's head technician. He alerted me that a new driveshaft is being installed in the '04s that corrects the clunking/snapping problem that is felt in the brakes. He has one arriving on Thursday for my '03 Sport V8 4x4. He wants to switch them for me. He said that they would probably switch these for anyone that complains since the new part is now available.

I am curious and will get the part numbers for the old shaft and the new before I commit to this. I also don't know yet if it is just the back shaft or both front and back...or only front!

I'll provide the info as I get it...but should I go ahead with this? The problem is annoying but not extreme and my SE has performed really well for its first 7200 miles. My concern is that I might exchange one problem for another. I will raise this concern with Toyota, but would also like any thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

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AndroT100 · 01-14-2004, 04:26 PM

Well, tomorrow the "fixer" driveshaft should arrive with an engineer from Toyota. The head technician will call and they will do a 30 minute swap. I am still leary about this. He assures me it is a newly designed shaft and not just a replacement. After install, the engineer will supposedly contact me periodically to check to see how its going.

Any opinions as to whether I should go ahead?

Good Times · 01-14-2004, 06:02 PM

I've had the clunking issue for me once in awhile but it's not a real big deal for me.

But to say one thing though, I did dent my driveshaft during one of my last trail runs thus requiring me to replace the entire shaft. I have an aftermarket driveshaft now and I still experience the same clunking once in awhile.

So I'm not sure if replacing the shaft will solve that issue. But since Toyota is the one performing this swap, I'd say go ahead with it but make sure you keep documentation just incase something goes bad. I doubt that anything will go bad as it's just a simple driveshaft swap (8 bolts total) so I wouldn't worry that much.

Just give us an update on how everything went. Good luck on your DL trip btw.

Lance

lcopelan22 · 01-14-2004, 06:48 PM

I'd let them change em. But try to buddy up with the guys at the shop so you can keep your old shafts for spares...

AndroT100 · 01-14-2004, 09:20 PM

Thanks for the responses and support.

I would love to keep the shafts and will ask, but from what they have told me thus far, they want to take them back to the lab and do a post mortem. We'll see.

Documentation for sure! My worry is that now I have an intermittent clunk....what if I get driveline vibrations from the new shafts! That would be worse. So I will be telling them that they have to be ready for replacement if I require it...of course I also have the extended warranty.

I'll let you know what happens!

GoudyMan · 01-15-2004, 10:19 AM

also, i have had a clunking (on an 01 tacoma manual 4x4) its only when i am in nuetral with the clutch out. They replaced the driveshaft which didn't help. Then they replaced the differential. I am pretty sure its the pilot bearing though.... its back at the dealer now.

AndroT100 · 01-15-2004, 03:14 PM

I spoke with the technician again. He said the design change is in the surface of the part of the shaft that slips-in...the metal. It doesn't get "hung-up" and clunk.

We'll see.

All will be documented and he said the will take full responsibility if anything goes awry.

AndroT100 · 01-15-2004, 06:41 PM

It's in and so far so good.

I have learned from the Toyota's engineer that all the shafts will clunk for some period of time. The new shaft will stop clunking quicker. Even the shaft I had would have stopped clunking after more wear-in time. It has to do with the properties of the metal used and how fast it wears to a certain amount of smoothness and impregnation by the grease. Closest comparison is like an iron cooking pan and how it gets "seasoned" after much use. So much so that you might not need to use a lubricant. So a different surface on the shaft to have it wear-in faster. It makes sense as I had noticed that the clunk was happening more infrequently. I guess I could have just waited and all would have been fine.

Great conversation with the engineer about the 5 speed automatic also...they are really happy with the unit and its ability to shift up and down manually or automatically without "clutching" i.e. per the engineer, no planatary gear has to stop and change direction and spin-up to speed.

Well, now I am a tester...they are taking the old shaft and will examine it and also cut it into pieces and look at it under a microscope. I was concerned about other possible problems with a new shaft but on the first drive I tested different speeds up to 85 miles per hour and felt nothing amiss. Although it did clunck once!

I'll keep you updated.

EricM · 01-15-2004, 07:28 PM

Thanks for the info Andro... I was just thinking the other day that my clunking was starting to subside some, but had attributed it to the change in temperature. I guess I won't bother doing anything about it. The next time the engineer calls you to ask how it's doing, ask him if they're doing anything about the on-throttle driveline vibration that most of us experience between 55 and 70 miles per hour.

Duc Hunter · 04-08-2004, 10:42 AM

Some period of time??? Well my 04 (09/03 prod date) Limmited clunks. It has for all 14,000 miles of its life. So I am not sure the 04's have a new drive shaft. I will try Vallejo Toyota (my local dealer in Norhtern CA) to ses if they have any desire to replace the driveshaft. If not I may just greease-and-go.

Hyperlite · 10-21-2004, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good Times

But to say one thing though, I did dent my driveshaft during one of my last trail runs thus requiring me to replace the entire shaft. I have an aftermarket driveshaft now and I still experience the same clunking once in awhile.

How much and where did you get it. Do you know if a 2nd gen shaft will fit a 3rd. I am trying to eliminate the double cardan joint.

Good Times · 10-21-2004, 03:14 PM

I just went to a shop locally as I didn't have the time and the resources to get a "woods" driveshaft. If I had the time I know I would have gone that route.

As for whether or not the 2nd gen will fit a 3rd gen... (got no clue)

stevrock · 10-21-2004, 08:16 PM

I've heard that a way to stop a clunking driveshaft is to grease the end that slides into another piece......

Hmmm, not a good description.....

I'm not sure if it slides into the transmission or the diff, but where the driveshaft slides into a socket should be well greased and if I remember correctly it slows the slide of the driveshaft so the clunk isn't as noticable....

01-14-2004, 04:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
AndroT100 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ojai, CA Posts: 97	Tomorrow is the day Well, tomorrow the "fixer" driveshaft should arrive with an engineer from Toyota. The head technician will call and they will do a 30 minute swap. I am still leary about this. He assures me it is a newly designed shaft and not just a replacement. After install, the engineer will supposedly contact me periodically to check to see how its going. Any opinions as to whether I should go ahead? __________________ 2003 4Runner Sport V8 4x4 Black 2005 Mini Cooper S 1997 T100 SR5 4x4 Black (Sold)

01-14-2004, 06:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Good Times Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,693	I've had the clunking issue for me once in awhile but it's not a real big deal for me. But to say one thing though, I did dent my driveshaft during one of my last trail runs thus requiring me to replace the entire shaft. I have an aftermarket driveshaft now and I still experience the same clunking once in awhile. So I'm not sure if replacing the shaft will solve that issue. But since Toyota is the one performing this swap, I'd say go ahead with it but make sure you keep documentation just incase something goes bad. I doubt that anything will go bad as it's just a simple driveshaft swap (8 bolts total) so I wouldn't worry that much. Just give us an update on how everything went. Good luck on your DL trip btw. Lance __________________ 2003 4runner SR5 4x4 Chaos Edition Chaos Edition! Operation Rebuild Chaos Edition Need to reach me or ask questions? You can find me here!

01-14-2004, 06:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
lcopelan22 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Conyers, GA Posts: 131	I'd let them change em. But try to buddy up with the guys at the shop so you can keep your old shafts for spares... __________________ 87 SAS Toyota. HY-X-over Steering. BFG MT's. Saleen race seats.

01-14-2004, 09:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
AndroT100 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ojai, CA Posts: 97	Thanks for the support Thanks for the responses and support. I would love to keep the shafts and will ask, but from what they have told me thus far, they want to take them back to the lab and do a post mortem. We'll see. Documentation for sure! My worry is that now I have an intermittent clunk....what if I get driveline vibrations from the new shafts! That would be worse. So I will be telling them that they have to be ready for replacement if I require it...of course I also have the extended warranty. I'll let you know what happens! __________________ 2003 4Runner Sport V8 4x4 Black 2005 Mini Cooper S 1997 T100 SR5 4x4 Black (Sold)

01-15-2004, 03:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
AndroT100 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ojai, CA Posts: 97	On my way for the swap I spoke with the technician again. He said the design change is in the surface of the part of the shaft that slips-in...the metal. It doesn't get "hung-up" and clunk. We'll see. All will be documented and he said the will take full responsibility if anything goes awry. __________________ 2003 4Runner Sport V8 4x4 Black 2005 Mini Cooper S 1997 T100 SR5 4x4 Black (Sold)

01-15-2004, 10:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
GoudyMan Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 223	also, i have had a clunking (on an 01 tacoma manual 4x4) its only when i am in nuetral with the clutch out. They replaced the driveshaft which didn't help. Then they replaced the differential. I am pretty sure its the pilot bearing though.... its back at the dealer now.

01-15-2004, 06:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
AndroT100 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ojai, CA Posts: 97	It's In It's in and so far so good. I have learned from the Toyota's engineer that all the shafts will clunk for some period of time. The new shaft will stop clunking quicker. Even the shaft I had would have stopped clunking after more wear-in time. It has to do with the properties of the metal used and how fast it wears to a certain amount of smoothness and impregnation by the grease. Closest comparison is like an iron cooking pan and how it gets "seasoned" after much use. So much so that you might not need to use a lubricant. So a different surface on the shaft to have it wear-in faster. It makes sense as I had noticed that the clunk was happening more infrequently. I guess I could have just waited and all would have been fine. Great conversation with the engineer about the 5 speed automatic also...they are really happy with the unit and its ability to shift up and down manually or automatically without "clutching" i.e. per the engineer, no planatary gear has to stop and change direction and spin-up to speed. Well, now I am a tester...they are taking the old shaft and will examine it and also cut it into pieces and look at it under a microscope. I was concerned about other possible problems with a new shaft but on the first drive I tested different speeds up to 85 miles per hour and felt nothing amiss. Although it did clunck once! I'll keep you updated. __________________ 2003 4Runner Sport V8 4x4 Black 2005 Mini Cooper S 1997 T100 SR5 4x4 Black (Sold)

01-15-2004, 07:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
EricM Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 53	Thanks for the info Andro... I was just thinking the other day that my clunking was starting to subside some, but had attributed it to the change in temperature. I guess I won't bother doing anything about it. The next time the engineer calls you to ask how it's doing, ask him if they're doing anything about the on-throttle driveline vibration that most of us experience between 55 and 70 miles per hour. __________________ 2003 4Runner V8 Sport 4WD 2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD Ex. Cab 4x4 Duramax/Allison

04-08-2004, 10:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
Duc Hunter Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 85	Some period of time??? Well my 04 (09/03 prod date) Limmited clunks. It has for all 14,000 miles of its life. So I am not sure the 04's have a new drive shaft. I will try Vallejo Toyota (my local dealer in Norhtern CA) to ses if they have any desire to replace the driveshaft. If not I may just greease-and-go. __________________ 04 4Runner Limited V8, NV, SR, GY, RF, HP, P9, Z1, E5, XM Radio, BlueTooth Wireless, NE lift (4" ft, 3.5" rear), 285/70/17 (had 265/70's), SpiderTrax Spacers, K&N FIPK, Magnaflow CAT-Back

10-21-2004, 03:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
Good Times Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,693	I just went to a shop locally as I didn't have the time and the resources to get a "woods" driveshaft. If I had the time I know I would have gone that route. As for whether or not the 2nd gen will fit a 3rd gen... (got no clue) __________________ 2003 4runner SR5 4x4 Chaos Edition Chaos Edition! Operation Rebuild Chaos Edition Need to reach me or ask questions? You can find me here!

10-21-2004, 08:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
stevrock Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Edmonton Posts: 3,564	I've heard that a way to stop a clunking driveshaft is to grease the end that slides into another piece...... Hmmm, not a good description..... I'm not sure if it slides into the transmission or the diff, but where the driveshaft slides into a socket should be well greased and if I remember correctly it slows the slide of the driveshaft so the clunk isn't as noticable....

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