traveler

Greetings all,

New member here looking for advice on what is going to be a major financial outlay for me -- head gasket. After spending way too much money having dealers and shops fix the results of my Runner's problem, I think I have finally figured out the problem after reading dozens of posting on this forum.

Here's the history -- a story of my own ignorance and slow learning curve. I bought my '91 Runner last summer with 135k miles, but in great condition with new tires, a new radiator, and recent timing belt replacement. I travel alot. In the past year I've made trips from NJ to AZ, NH, Quebec, and all the places in between. I bought the Runner for reliability and because my yearly trips to the southwest take me through some of the roughest country in northeast AZ.

On my trip to the southwest last year I had the first of three overheating experiences. Temp guage suddenly went wild, finally burying itself in the red. I took it straight to a dealer and they told me they tested it and it was the radiator cap, which I now realize was a waste of $80. No problems up to that point even when I had gone over the continental divide at Wolf Pass. After this first case, the temp guage would occassionally whip back and forth without reaching red. It also had a very very slow coolant leak. I also now realize that the white smoke coming from the exhaust sometimes was not just water vapor.

The engine was starting and running rough the following fall. I had the fuel injectors cleaned in NJ with some improvement. When visiting MO, I took it to a mechanic and he replaced the oxygen sensor, which I now know should have given me and them a clue about the head gasket. No prolems starting or running since then. On a trip to DC this spring it overheated on a flat highway when going about 80 while seeming to have trouble shifting into overdrive. Result was transmission fluid all over the under carriage. I had the transmission fluid and coolant both flushed.

Third incident was in NH two months ago while carrying four people and gear through the White Mountains. Transmission slipped some as the result of the overheating. Once it cooled down everything was ok.
No problems since then, but have only done around town driving.

I thought it might just be a transmission problem and wanted to put in an external tranny cooler, so began looking through forums for advice and found this one. Obsessive reading since then has been a great education and led me to the head gasket diagnosis. I also checked on the recall and found that the previous owner had taken advantage of that back in 1998, so I'm sol there.

So here, finally, are my questions. I am going to take it to a dealer for the repair for piece of mind but am worried about getting screwed with alot of add-on repairs. What should I expect them to do in addition to the head gasket repair, considering that it has 155k miles? Can anyone recommend a reliable dealer in the central NJ area?

rimpainter.com

They cant forcibly do anything without your consent in addition to the HG. However, when doing the HG, its a good idea to have the drive belts, timing belt, and possibly the water pump done at the same time. Quite often, the tech will find broken exhaust studs, which is a common problem with that type of mileage.

So, while they are in there, I would have the following done:

Drive belts
Timing Belt
Water pump (unless its been done in the last 60K miles)

Request complete documentation of everything that is going to be done, and exactly how much it is going to cost. Then, hold them to it.

Good luck. And double check on that HG recall. Sounds like Toyota never did it right in the first place, or they gave you the old design. Be sure to request the old HG for comparison to the new.

Shoorty911

I had the same overheating problem with my tranny in my 93....it happened only 175 miles away from my house and i had the cruise set on 73 or so......it overheated to bad when i opened the hood smoke was billowing out from there and under the car.....right after that happened i had it flushed and put on an aftermarket tranny cooler behind the front skidplate.....i still did have it overheat time to time.....now it vibrates REALLY bad and has formed a crack in the tranny case from all the overheating and cooling (exapanding and contracting) and now im having to replace the whole thing....its in the shop right now.....it really sucks.....you might want to look into getting it rebuilt before what happened to me happens to you.....

shoorty

PY

This is a classic symptom of either a bad thermostat or trash in the cooling system. Since you know the head gasket leaks, it's probably trash. While they are in there, I'd get a new thermostat anyway.

When I had mine in for the recall, the timing belt idler was rough, so that got replaced. It was the idler on the coolant outlet. And like they say, if the water pump or timing belt has over 60k replace each of those as need be. This is also a great time for them to check the valve clearances and have them adjusted if need be.

I have heard that Toyota will pick up the bill for the HG if it fails, including those replaced under a previous recall. All you should have to pay for is the incidentals. (WP, TB, studs, thermostat, etc) If the dealer you go to doesn't wanna, I'd shop around 'till I found one that does.

Paul H.

I had my transmission over heat back in 1995 after I bought the vehicle and had a dealer change the trans fluid. Took it to another dealer and they found a kinked line/hose, not sure which one, and something about the bottom pan was bad. Long story short, they replaced it all under warrenty and have not had a problem since. Might want to check everything under there.

AgRunner06

You should have your VIN run at the dealer. My '93 already had the HG recall done. Toyota replaced it with the old style HG. So when my VIN was run again, it came up with the V06 code again for the HG recall. Toyota redesigned the HG. And is replacing the old HG with the new one.

So far the HG recall has been done twice on my truck.

its2slo

engine swap?

Shoorty911

Hey....AgRunner06....i had the HG recall done in 97....did they redesign them after then or before??....thanks

shoorty

AgRunner06

That's what I don't know. The only way you will find out is to give the dealership a call and have them run your VIN.

If you decide to have the recall done again, make sure it is done right. If you have any problems afterwards make them fix them. If they don't, call the Toyota Hotline. Document everything! I can't stress this enough.

Good Luck

:alien:

traveler

Thanks for all of the suggestions on what else might be done during the HG repair and how to deal with the dealership.

I have made multiple calls to the Toyota customer service line over the past few days asking questions and documenting the problem and history of the vehicle. I found out through them that the HG recall repair was done on my Runner back in '98. They told me that once it is done they are no longer responsible. They also said that their quality control procedures made it virtually impossible for the dealer to have installed an outdated gasket. I called the dealer back in St. Louis who did the recall repair and they said the same thing, though they did offer to give me 10% off the repair if I wanted to drive 1200 miles for them to do it. I then called four dealers in my area. One said that the recall is only applicable if the vehicle is under 100k miles, which I don't believe. The others referred me back to Toyota customer service.

Considering the expense potentially involved, I thought about taking it to a local mechanic who is trustworthy and used to work for a Toyota dealership. But if the original repair was screwed up, I'm wondering if I would have a better chance for compensation by going to the dealer. I'm definitely going to make sure I get that HG back to compare it to a new one.

Keep the advice and suggestions coming. I'm going to make an appointment tomorrow and will probably have a few days before it goes in the shop.

its2slo

screw the dealer!!!!! did i mention Thomason Toyota screwed mine up here in portland. go with the good mechanic.

AgRunner06

Classic Toyota in Round Rock Texas screwed mine up as well.

traveler,
Has your VIN been ran yet? That 100K thing is a bunch of BS. The work is warrantied for 12 months/12K miles.

traveler

Yep, Toyota customer service ran my VIN. They're the ones who told me the HG repair was done in 1998 at Jerry Ackerman Toyota in St. Louis. One of the local dealers tried to run it but said it was "too old" for their recall database.

AgRunner06

I think you should go ahead and have a couple more dealerships run the VIN. Like I said, I don't know when they redesigned the HG. You may already have the new HG.

Good Luck

PY

HEY! These are the guys that just did my HG in February! Care relate your experience?

I'll not use them again. I saw the mechanic toss the cams with a bunch of other parts onto a steel table!

When I got it back and checked the air filter, they had left a BUNCH of sand & dirt laying on the inside of the filter! No telling how much my engine ate on the drive home. Even though they had flushed the cooling system & changed the oil, I changed the oil & coolant immediately anyway. The HG is holding so far.

ANYWAY, traveler, I'd look far & wide for good dealer.

And another thing, if the fuel filter is over 100k miles, replace it as well.

rimpainter.com

Mods: we need a HG sticky!

Ok, here is the deal:

When the HG recall is done correctly, with the newly designed gasket, a code is entered on your VIN. Toyota warranties all their work for 1 year/12K miles, so if the install was done incorrectly, it should rear its ugly head prior to that time elaspsing.

When you get the HG recall done, demand that the shop foreman do the work (I did). The HG recall brings in money to the dealership! There is no reason for them to push it off on another dealer if you are eligable. However, the dealer must legitimately do the recall, and send the old gasket back to Toyota, therefore you must not have the code on your VIN.

In my case, I had a record of a HG recall being done, but they could not verify the gasket design that was used. It was done back in Sept of 96, so the old gasket design was used.

The 3.0 HG problem was internal and the 3.4 HG problem was external. The internal problem was much worse than the external.

BTW: You can call ANY dealership in the US and have your VIN verified. So, dial away! And, if you are getting the HG recall done, you will get a rental car free upon request.

AgRunner06

That's funny, Georgetown is my hometown. I still go back there pretty often too.

I had my HG done at the end of December. When I got my 4runner back it had a miss. The jackass mechanic that did the work told me that it was normal. I also have some friends that work up there. So I was hoping that they would do a good job because of that. I did get a complete drivetrain fluid change and an oil leak fixed for free.

Well, I did a tune-up with genuine Toyota parts to try and get rid of the miss. That just made it worse to the point where I couldn't drive it anymore. So me and my buddy up there ran some injector cleaner through it. The only problem was my buddy didn't disconnect the fuel pump first. I think I still have a problem from that because I have a hesitation and my exhaust tone has been different ever since that day. Anyways, after doing that it was still missing and we discovered that my timing was way off. They claimed that the problem was the TPS and replaced that. It fixed my timing.

My truck still doesn't run like I think it should. Since I was stupid and messed with it after the work was done, I'm pretty sure I can't get anything out of Toyota.

My step-mom has a '96 LC and has used Classic some and she doesn't like their work either. I will never have them work on my truck again.

I now use Bossier-Atkinson Toyota here in College Station. They've received more awards and their service is much better.

If you are going to use another dealership, I think the next closest one is Champion Toyota in south Austin.

Do you go wheeling anywhere around Georgetown? I know that you can drive under the I35 bridge in between 29 and Leander Rd. Other than that, places to go are pretty scarce.

Classic Toyota Sucks!!!

PY

Are we going Off Topic or What?

Been in Gtown for 18 mos now, and haven't had much chance to wheel around here anyway. Working my a$$ off. Our one vacation we went back to SPI to wheel in the sand. We love that place.


:beach:

I'll have to check out the I35 bridge sometime. We're thinking of checking out Big Bend next vacation.

And yea, I wuz gonna try Champion next time I need service, but I'm usually pretty successful at keeping our rigs away from the dealers!

Have you replaced the fuel filter? Made a big difference in mine, and I noticed a lot of red crud in the old filter inlet. Just before I changed it I drained the tank to check for more crud, but there was very little.

email if you're gonn be around.

AgRunner06

Yep, I replaced my fuel filter. It was a PITA to do. I don't know how big of a difference it made because I did the rest of my tune-up at the same time.

I'll drop you an e-mail the next time I come back to town.

Later

:alien: