my quest for 20 mpg while towing 1k - Page 3

Whitey13 · 04-26-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cackalak han

So at what point does the orange become an apple? 500lbs? 400? Again, study up on the use of your phrases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cackalak han

no way you will get 20MPG. Simply, much of it has to do with the weight. You are pulling ~1000 more pounds. Unless you shed a ton of weight from the 4Runner itself, you will not get 20MPG. Cannot defy physics.

Was it not you who commented of the significance weight has on fuel economy? Now your telling me it doesn't make a considerable difference.

cackalak han · 04-26-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitey13

Was it not you who commented of the significance weight has on fuel economy? Now your telling me it doesn't make a considerable difference.

Towing is a whole different story. If you've ever towed, you'd know this.

Funny how you're now just trying to find fault in my words instead of actually trying to figure out what's could be wrong with your vehicle or your driving habits.

Man4God · 04-26-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cackalak han

Towing is a whole different story. If you've ever towed, you'd know this.

Funny how you're now just trying to find fault in my words instead of actually trying to figure out what's could be wrong with your vehicle or your driving habits.

No, you are simply not telling the truth. 370 miles per tank of fuel on a Taco? You expect a 4Runner to get the same? or even remotely close? I would venture to say that 250 to a tank is about average for 4Runners with the 3.4 auto. With a stick they might make 300 with normal driving. Still, not very likely. 600lbs if not more, makes a huge difference. Towing or not, weight is weight.

I think what is funny that you are backed into a corner and just want to blame others for either maintenance issues or poor driving habbits. I have illustrated to you that my truck is in good running condition. I rarely let it go above 2500 RPM while accellerating and cruise between 62-75 on the freeway. My driving mix is 40 town and 60 highway yet I always manage to get between 15-16 MPG. On the highway, the very best I got while driving 65-70 on cruise control was 313 per tank. It came out to be roughly 18.2 MPG.

cackalak han · 04-26-2008, 02:30 PM

Are you even reading the whole thread? I've already stated I've had TWO 4Runners, and this Tacoma. They have all gotten the same mileage. If you're not getting the same, I guess it sucks to be you. Just for what it's worth, my gas light always came on about at 300 - 325 miles. 15 gallons at each time. That was 80% highway.

BTW, how am I backed into a corner when I am the only one that posted detailed charts, had THREE 3.4L's (all auto's, BTW), and most in this thread have confirmed the 20mpg?

Lastly, my Tacoma is 3700lbs (3850 with the shell). Get your facts straight.

sharrack · 04-26-2008, 05:28 PM

I can understand the whole drive slower to get better mileage, but driving 68
or slower on any major hwy in AZ will cause a major back up.
I've driven past the 65 miles per hour crowd and there's always a somewhat dangerous
dynamic when everyone is going around one car in the right lane..

The mileage game seems like a financial magic trick as well.
Spend 100's of dollars and countless hours working while driving slow to save
a few bucks a tank.
Not sure it will ever even out especially in a year when many of the tune up,
foam this, ad magic elixer mods will need to be done again.

Again..........I'm referring to a well driven vehicle , not a garaged show vehicle.

I drive alot here in AZ and I don't think I could drive with every car looking over at me as if I'm breaking down

or as if I should have my hazards on.
My 99 runner is stock with most air related mods reversed, a new tune up, auto , clean sensor etc. 17-18.5 will have to do.
I could not imagine the 20's.............or driving 65 Kenny S>

denpacc · 04-26-2008, 07:45 PM

Cackalak, no matter how much we try to convince the skeptics they won't believe us. No big deal. But I must reply:

Whitey, don't use my quotes out of context. My posted best mileage pulling my tent trailer was a shade under 22.5mpg. You fail to quote the part about it was 100% highway driving at 55-60mph (with stops only for gas), and that makes a HUGE difference in fuel economy. For example, when I opened it up to 80+miles per hour pulling my tent trailer, often slowing down for slower vehicles and generally poor traffic flow, my mpg dropped to 13ishmpg. That's what happens when I talk about traffic flow and driving fast.

Man4God, you stated you got 18.2 on the highway driving 65-70mph. Don't you think driving 55-60 for the ENTIRE trip on a highway with excellent traffic flow could possibly make a difference in your fuel mileage? I've experimented with this for years and there is quite a difference between driving 55 vs. 65+ on a 4runner for the entire trip. Remember the faster you drive the more drag there is, and considering we are talking about a 4runner speed will severely impact fuel consumption.

You guys are entitled to not believe our numbers, but until you've duplicated our driving habits/style, weather environments, traffic (flow), trailer set-up, altitude, vehicle, etc. you won't know for sure.

I generally get very different mileage consumption depending on the highways I choose, my driving style on a particular day, summer vs. winter gas, direction I head from the city I live in, wind speed. I've gotten significantly WORSE mileage driving the highways near my house WITHOUT pulling my trailer than I do pulling my trailer in a different part of the country.
All I am asking is that you are open to the possibility of people like me or Cackalak getting 20+mpg pulling a trailer. Rather than chalk it up to BS or something like that why not be open to the possibility that our numbers are true? It can be done in the right conditions consistently. There is no reason for us to make up the numbers we post.

Not only that, I got very similar numbers pulling our tent trailer with my wife's 1993 4.0 heep cherokee sport a few years earlier on the same stretch of highways. How's that for comparing apples to oranges? LOL

Cheers

Matt16 · 04-26-2008, 08:13 PM

Leave the Seadoo at home, you don't need it.

Man4God · 04-26-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denpacc

Cackalak, no matter how much we try to convince the skeptics they won't believe us. No big deal. But I must reply:

Whitey, don't use my quotes out of context. My posted best mileage pulling my tent trailer was a shade under 22.5mpg. You fail to quote the part about it was 100% highway driving at 55-60mph (with stops only for gas), and that makes a HUGE difference in fuel economy. For example, when I opened it up to 80+miles per hour pulling my tent trailer, often slowing down for slower vehicles and generally poor traffic flow, my mpg dropped to 13ishmpg. That's what happens when I talk about traffic flow and driving fast.

Man4God, you stated you got 18.2 on the highway driving 65-70mph. Don't you think driving 55-60 for the ENTIRE trip on a highway with excellent traffic flow could possibly make a difference in your fuel mileage? I've experimented with this for years and there is quite a difference between driving 55 vs. 65+ on a 4runner for the entire trip. Remember the faster you drive the more drag there is, and considering we are talking about a 4runner speed will severely impact fuel consumption.

You guys are entitled to not believe our numbers, but until you've duplicated our driving habits/style, weather environments, traffic (flow), trailer set-up, altitude, vehicle, etc. you won't know for sure.

I generally get very different mileage consumption depending on the highways I choose, my driving style on a particular day, summer vs. winter gas, direction I head from the city I live in, wind speed. I've gotten significantly WORSE mileage driving the highways near my house WITHOUT pulling my trailer than I do pulling my trailer in a different part of the country.
All I am asking is that you are open to the possibility of people like me or Cackalak getting 20+mpg pulling a trailer. Rather than chalk it up to BS or something like that why not be open to the possibility that our numbers are true? It can be done in the right conditions consistently. There is no reason for us to make up the numbers we post.

Not only that, I got very similar numbers pulling our tent trailer with my wife's 1993 4.0 heep cherokee sport a few years earlier on the same stretch of highways. How's that for comparing apples to oranges? LOL

Cheers

I get what you are saying. I really do: These trucks under the most ideal of conditions can get better than 20 MPG. Ok, fair enough. If you live in the sticks where you drive 100 miles a day to work with no one, even a moose on the road, yeah, 20 MPG is feasible. But real world for almost all these truks is more like 15-18 mixed, USA driving. As the gentleman from AZ stated, less than 65 there is tantamount to death and it's practically the same here in Southern California. Short of asking everyone on the planet to slow down so I can get 20 MPG on my way to work, it is just not a reality.

But 3 years with 3 different 3.4 Auto equipped trucks/4Runners and averaging almost 21 MPG? Get out. You drive in a dream world.

denpacc · 04-26-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man4God

I get what you are saying. I really do: These trucks under the most ideal of conditions can get better than 20 MPG. Ok, fair enough. If you live in the sticks where you drive 100 miles a day to work with no one, even a moose on the road, yeah, 20 MPG is feasible. But real world for almost all these truks is more like 15-18 mixed, USA driving. As the gentleman from AZ stated, less than 65 there is tantamount to death and it's practically the same here in Southern California. Short of asking everyone on the planet to slow down so I can get 20 MPG on my way to work, it is just not a reality.

But 3 years with 3 different 3.4 Auto equipped trucks/4Runners and averaging almost 21 MPG? Get out. You drive in a dream world.

If you read the OP's post you'd understand that I was responding to it:

"I am trying to get 20 mpg in the 98 4runner while towing the super jet and the blaster. I think if we are driving the speed limit (60) I think we can pull it off."

He was simply asking if it's possible to get 20mpg pulling a trailer that has his super jet and blaster (apprx. 1000#'s) with his 98 runner. I told him yes it is POSSIBLE under the right conditions doing 55-60mph. I didn't say he'd get it everywhere he'd drive pulling the trailer doing whatever speed he chose. I also mentioned in my post you quoted that my mpg's varied depending on numerous traffic, environment, highway factors. And where does it say I drove 3 different 3.4 Auto equipped trucks/runners???? My runner is a 5spd. Keep your yotatechers straight.

And yes I'd agree that regular "real world" day to day driving in these vehicles does average 15-18mpg. That is true, especially if you drive in the city or 70+miles per hour on highways. I never said it didn't. But as I said, occassionally real world driving can be ideal and you CAN get 20+mpg pulling a trailer of approximately 1000#'s on a secondary highway where the posted speed limit is 55mph. That's all.

You are the one calling BS and stating I "live in a dream world". Nice!

Cheers

Man4God · 04-26-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denpacc

If you read the OP's post you'd understand that I was responding to it:

"I am trying to get 20 mpg in the 98 4runner while towing the super jet and the blaster. I think if we are driving the speed limit (60) I think we can pull it off."

He was simply asking if it's possible to get 20mpg pulling a trailer that has his super jet and blaster (apprx. 1000#'s) with his 98 runner. I told him yes it is POSSIBLE under the right conditions doing 55-60mph. I didn't say he'd get it everywhere he'd drive pulling the trailer doing whatever speed he chose. I also mentioned in my post you quoted that my mpg's varied depending on numerous traffic, environment, highway factors. And where does it say I drove 3 different 3.4 Auto equipped trucks/runners???? My runner is a 5spd. Keep your yotatechers straight.

And yes I'd agree that regular "real world" day to day driving in these vehicles does average 15-18mpg. That is true, especially if you drive in the city or 70+miles per hour on highways. I never said it didn't. But as I said, occassionally real world driving can be ideal and you CAN get 20+mpg pulling a trailer of approximately 1000#'s on a secondary highway where the posted speed limit is 55mph. That's all.

You are the one calling BS and stating I "live in a dream world". Nice!

Cheers

I apologize for not making it more clear, but the last statement (separated) that I made was directed at cackalak han, not you.

I understand under these very specific conditions, it is possible. Not likely, but possible.

No big deal. I don't have beef with you and really I don't have beef with the other guy either. But I will call BS when someone states that they are constantly getting that fuel mileage, day in and day out. If he does, it isn't even remotely under the same conditions and I think it is incredibly dishonest to pass it off as some casual thing.

Rant over.

denpacc · 04-26-2008, 10:32 PM

Matt16,

ROTFLMAO. Great pic!! I loved it.

Whitey13 · 04-26-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denpacc

Cackalak, no matter how much we try to convince the skeptics they won't believe us. No big deal. But I must reply:

Whitey, don't use my quotes out of context. My posted best mileage pulling my tent trailer was a shade under 22.5mpg. You fail to quote the part about it was 100% highway driving at 55-60mph (with stops only for gas), and that makes a HUGE difference in fuel economy. For example, when I opened it up to 80+miles per hour pulling my tent trailer, often slowing down for slower vehicles and generally poor traffic flow, my mpg dropped to 13ishmpg. That's what happens when I talk about traffic flow and driving fast.
Cheers

I was not quoting you out of context. In light of your stated fuel economy I was saying that you were among those in this thread that would be averaging over 400 "miles per tank"...meaning much fewer fill-ups compared to my truck. Now you're saying that you've gotten as little as 13 mpg. I suppose, statistically speaking, that your data depends on the sample size it's derived from.
Like Cackalan mentioned, a "fill-up" for most is around ~15 gallons. So when you were towing were you getting an average of 22.5 for an extended period (say at least 15 gallons at a time) or was it just a few gallons at a time when conditions were ideal?
I understand that driving style plays a considerable roll in fuel economy and I assume full responsibility for my mpg #'s because there is absolutely no way in hell that I could cruise down the highway at 55 miles per hour.

cackalak han · 04-27-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man4God

I get what you are saying. I really do: These trucks under the most ideal of conditions can get better than 20 MPG. Ok, fair enough. If you live in the sticks where you drive 100 miles a day to work with no one, even a moose on the road, yeah, 20 MPG is feasible.

So now, 20MPG IS possible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man4God

But 3 years with 3 different 3.4 Auto equipped trucks/4Runners and averaging almost 21 MPG? Get out. You drive in a dream world.

Read the whole chart. I mostly drive on the highway. I can never drive 65mph or less on the highway. I keep the cruise at 70+. I hardly run into traffic. You probably run into a lot of traffic in So Cal, which is lots of stop-n-go and idle time that kills your MPG. BUT READ: I am not talking about highway+extended idle time+stop&go, etc--I am talking strictly highway (with some city) where I get 20+. You can't say your car gets XX highway mileage when you're on interstate 5 during rush hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic--that's not highway mileage! Why don't you take a trip out somewhere, set the cruise at 70 and report back what you get? I don't even know if that's possible near the vicinity of So Cal, which is another reason why it's a great place to visit, but never to live in.

BTW, if I drove in my dream world, I'd be in a GT3 RS getting 4MPG driving up an open canyon road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denpacc

Cackalak, no matter how much we try to convince the skeptics they won't believe us. No big deal.

Yeah, I know. Oh, well. But if I got that kind of MPG's, I'd be pissed, too, and do anything to keep myself in denial.

denpacc · 04-27-2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitey13

I was not quoting you out of context. In light of your stated fuel economy I was saying that you were among those in this thread that would be averaging over 400 "miles per tank"...meaning much fewer fill-ups compared to my truck. Now you're saying that you've gotten as little as 13 mpg. I suppose, statistically speaking, that your data depends on the sample size it's derived from.
Like Cackalan mentioned, a "fill-up" for most is around ~15 gallons. So when you were towing were you getting an average of 22.5 for an extended period (say at least 15 gallons at a time) or was it just a few gallons at a time when conditions were ideal?
I understand that driving style plays a considerable roll in fuel economy and I assume full responsibility for my mpg #'s because there is absolutely no way in hell that I could cruise down the highway at 55 miles per hour.

"So when you were towing were you getting an average of 22.5 for an extended period (say at least 15 gallons at a time) or was it just a few gallons at a time when conditions were ideal?"
The answer is the latter, on a couple LONG stretches of highway 300-350 miles (of ideal conditions 55-60mph) I repeatedly got a shade under 22.5mpg. On a side note which I haven't mentioned yet, on the way to my destination I got a shade under 22.5 mpg, on the way back I'd get closer to 19.5-20 mpg. My average, however, during those trips pulling my trailer was between 20-21mpg which is still quite good. On other trips pulling my trailer to completely different destinations I got considerably worse mpg than 20 mpg (again, traffic conditions and speed play a huge role). All I said from the beginning is that under the right conditions I can break 20+mpg on the highway pulling my apprx 1200# tent trailer. Don't get hung up on my 22.5mpg as it was my personal best repeated a few times on the same long stretch of highway, not an average of an entire trip.

I also acknowledge and respect the fact that you live in an area where you can't cruise below 65mph, which means you'll be highly unlikely to ever duplicate what I got for mpg. But if you lived in Montana, Wyoming, Dakotas, or certain parts of my country, you'd be able to drive differently and not worry about holding up traffic. And for that matter you may never want to drive that speed anyway, that's your choice and I would totally respect that). Most of the excellent fuel economy I received was driven in a province where the posted speed limit is 55mph (I usually was closer to 60mph on those stretches).

Seems like we are somewhat on the same page, but often our ego's get in the way.

Cheers

denpacc · 04-27-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man4God

I apologize for not making it more clear, but the last statement (separated) that I made was directed at cackalak han, not you.

I understand under these very specific conditions, it is possible. Not likely, but possible.

No big deal. I don't have beef with you and really I don't have beef with the other guy either. But I will call BS when someone states that they are constantly getting that fuel mileage, day in and day out. If he does, it isn't even remotely under the same conditions and I think it is incredibly dishonest to pass it off as some casual thing.

Rant over.

I like the skepticism as it gets me to think. The way I look at it, you and Whitey helped keep me entertained. As you said, no big deal. I've read your discussions in other thread posts, I completely respect your opinions and consider you decent yotatechers.

Peace.

Cheers

denpacc · 04-27-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cackalak han

So now, 20MPG IS possible?

Read the whole chart. I mostly drive on the highway. I can never drive 65mph or less on the highway. I keep the cruise at 70+. I hardly run into traffic. You probably run into a lot of traffic in So Cal, which is lots of stop-n-go and idle time that kills your MPG. BUT READ: I am not talking about highway+extended idle time+stop&go, etc--I am talking strictly highway (with some city) where I get 20+. You can't say your car gets XX highway mileage when you're on interstate 5 during rush hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic--that's not highway mileage! Why don't you take a trip out somewhere, set the cruise at 70 and report back what you get? I don't even know if that's possible near the vicinity of So Cal, which is another reason why it's a great place to visit, but never to live in.

BTW, if I drove in my dream world, I'd be in a GT3 RS getting 4MPG driving up an open canyon road.

Yeah, I know. Oh, well. But if I got that kind of MPG's, I'd be pissed, too, and do anything to keep myself in denial.

NICE DREAM WORLD!! Count me in. And good points about a busy interstate vs. strictly quiet highway.

By the way I laugh everytime I see your name. For some reason Cackalak makes me laugh, not sure why. Hope you don't get offended by my remark.

Cheers

Whitey13 · 04-27-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denpacc

I like the skepticism as it gets me to think. The way I look at it, you and Whitey helped keep me entertained. As you said, no big deal. I've read your discussions in other thread posts, I completely respect your opinions and consider you decent yotatechers.

Peace.

Cheers

It's all godd. A difference of opinion is certainly nothing to get bent out of shape about. I have to go now because my wife told me to stop stirring the pot.

Cheers- James

04-26-2008, 02:30 PM	#54 (permalink)
cackalak han Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Salt Lake Posts: 1,171	Are you even reading the whole thread? I've already stated I've had TWO 4Runners, and this Tacoma. They have all gotten the same mileage. If you're not getting the same, I guess it sucks to be you. Just for what it's worth, my gas light always came on about at 300 - 325 miles. 15 gallons at each time. That was 80% highway. BTW, how am I backed into a corner when I am the only one that posted detailed charts, had THREE 3.4L's (all auto's, BTW), and most in this thread have confirmed the 20mpg? Lastly, my Tacoma is 3700lbs (3850 with the shell). Get your facts straight. __________________ 01 Tacoma DC TRD OR 4x4 Last edited by cackalak han : 04-26-2008 at 02:40 PM.

04-26-2008, 05:28 PM	#55 (permalink)
sharrack Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 155	The gas mileage game.......... I can understand the whole drive slower to get better mileage, but driving 68 or slower on any major hwy in AZ will cause a major back up. I've driven past the 65 miles per hour crowd and there's always a somewhat dangerous dynamic when everyone is going around one car in the right lane.. The mileage game seems like a financial magic trick as well. Spend 100's of dollars and countless hours working while driving slow to save a few bucks a tank. Not sure it will ever even out especially in a year when many of the tune up, foam this, ad magic elixer mods will need to be done again. Again..........I'm referring to a well driven vehicle , not a garaged show vehicle. I drive alot here in AZ and I don't think I could drive with every car looking over at me as if I'm breaking down or as if I should have my hazards on. My 99 runner is stock with most air related mods reversed, a new tune up, auto , clean sensor etc. 17-18.5 will have to do. I could not imagine the 20's.............or driving 65 Kenny S> Last edited by sharrack : 04-26-2008 at 05:33 PM.

04-26-2008, 07:45 PM	#56 (permalink)
denpacc Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 173	Cackalak, no matter how much we try to convince the skeptics they won't believe us. No big deal. But I must reply: Whitey, don't use my quotes out of context. My posted best mileage pulling my tent trailer was a shade under 22.5mpg. You fail to quote the part about it was 100% highway driving at 55-60mph (with stops only for gas), and that makes a HUGE difference in fuel economy. For example, when I opened it up to 80+miles per hour pulling my tent trailer, often slowing down for slower vehicles and generally poor traffic flow, my mpg dropped to 13ishmpg. That's what happens when I talk about traffic flow and driving fast. Man4God, you stated you got 18.2 on the highway driving 65-70mph. Don't you think driving 55-60 for the ENTIRE trip on a highway with excellent traffic flow could possibly make a difference in your fuel mileage? I've experimented with this for years and there is quite a difference between driving 55 vs. 65+ on a 4runner for the entire trip. Remember the faster you drive the more drag there is, and considering we are talking about a 4runner speed will severely impact fuel consumption. You guys are entitled to not believe our numbers, but until you've duplicated our driving habits/style, weather environments, traffic (flow), trailer set-up, altitude, vehicle, etc. you won't know for sure. I generally get very different mileage consumption depending on the highways I choose, my driving style on a particular day, summer vs. winter gas, direction I head from the city I live in, wind speed. I've gotten significantly WORSE mileage driving the highways near my house WITHOUT pulling my trailer than I do pulling my trailer in a different part of the country. All I am asking is that you are open to the possibility of people like me or Cackalak getting 20+mpg pulling a trailer. Rather than chalk it up to BS or something like that why not be open to the possibility that our numbers are true? It can be done in the right conditions consistently. There is no reason for us to make up the numbers we post. Not only that, I got very similar numbers pulling our tent trailer with my wife's 1993 4.0 heep cherokee sport a few years earlier on the same stretch of highways. How's that for comparing apples to oranges? LOL Cheers __________________ 1997 3.4 4Runner, 5spd, e-locker, SS#1.1 Lift, 265/75/R16 Dick Cepek FCII Coming soon: ARB front bumper with T-Max or Warn winch, sliders, snorkel, etc.

04-26-2008, 10:32 PM	#61 (permalink)
denpacc Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 173	Matt16, ROTFLMAO. Great pic!! I loved it. __________________ 1997 3.4 4Runner, 5spd, e-locker, SS#1.1 Lift, 265/75/R16 Dick Cepek FCII Coming soon: ARB front bumper with T-Max or Warn winch, sliders, snorkel, etc.