Multi-Mode 4WD w/5spd possible?
10-15-2009, 09:13 AM
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Multi-Mode 4WD w/5spd possible?
I have a 99 limited with the multi-mode transfer case which allows you 4hi, 4lo, and AWD. The only way these limiteds came was in the form of an automatic. I'd eventually like to do a 5spd swap and was wondering if this would be a problem with the multi mode or not.
"On the limited grade 4WD model, a VF3AM transfer, which is based on the VF2A transfer and contains a center differential mechanism, has been adopted. This VF3AM transfer is a multi-mode 4WD transfer that offers the advantages of a part-time 4WD that switches between 4WD and 2WD mode as necessary, and of a full-time 4WD that excels in driving performance."
"On the limited grade 4WD model, a VF3AM transfer, which is based on the VF2A transfer and contains a center differential mechanism, has been adopted. This VF3AM transfer is a multi-mode 4WD transfer that offers the advantages of a part-time 4WD that switches between 4WD and 2WD mode as necessary, and of a full-time 4WD that excels in driving performance."
10-15-2009, 10:53 AM
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Well, i'm just starting to research transmission/transfercase compatibility, so I don't know too much yet. All of the fancy electronics to get the multi-mode should be isolated to the transfer case correct? i.e. the automatic doesn't play a role in its operation...?
If that's the case, I just need to make sure a manual transmission (compatible years) and trucks (taco/4runner/both) will bolt between the 5vze and the VF3AM.
From what I have read in another thread, the transfer case isn't really changing between years, it's just the internals that are different. If that is the case I would just need the manual on up. I haven't seen it done with the multi-mode yet though.
If that's the case, I just need to make sure a manual transmission (compatible years) and trucks (taco/4runner/both) will bolt between the 5vze and the VF3AM.
From what I have read in another thread, the transfer case isn't really changing between years, it's just the internals that are different. If that is the case I would just need the manual on up. I haven't seen it done with the multi-mode yet though.
Last edited by CYi5; 10-15-2009 at 10:56 AM.
10-15-2009, 12:12 PM
#5
That's what I was thinking. Mainly you need to get the computer or whatever locks the transfer case. My main thing was if it bolted to the transmision.
Wait, it should be easier for you cause you're just replacing the trans. Well swapping to a manual will be tougher but getting the transfer case to work with the manual should be easier.
Wait, it should be easier for you cause you're just replacing the trans. Well swapping to a manual will be tougher but getting the transfer case to work with the manual should be easier.
Last edited by pkt1213; 10-15-2009 at 12:14 PM.
10-15-2009, 12:20 PM
#7
The Limiteds in 99 and 00 I think and then standard on 01 and 02s have a selectable transfer case locker. The older trucksm the transfer case is already locked but in the new models you can run it in 4 wheel but without the transfer case locked it makes it more like an AWD that allows the front and rear to turn at different rates.
That's how I understand it anyways.
That's how I understand it anyways.
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10-15-2009, 08:11 PM
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From the junglecode write up on the swap they note that the 3 transmission used for 1995.5-04 all use the same transfercase:
R150F 5-speed manual 4WD
A340E 4-speed automatic 2WD
A340F 4-speed automatic 4WD
Which leads me to believe transfer cases between these years should have the same bolt up pattern.
Does anyone know the ecm part number for a '99 v6 5spd?
R150F 5-speed manual 4WD
A340E 4-speed automatic 2WD
A340F 4-speed automatic 4WD
Which leads me to believe transfer cases between these years should have the same bolt up pattern.
Does anyone know the ecm part number for a '99 v6 5spd?
Last edited by CYi5; 10-15-2009 at 08:46 PM.
10-21-2009, 11:47 AM
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The R150F will bolt to the VF3AM transfer case. No modifications needed.
I feel like spilling my guts, so this is what I know:
The vehicle speed on all AWD 'runners with the digital odometer (which IIRC, is all USDM t4rs AWD Limited +99 models), is calculated by the ECU using the ABS speed sensors on each wheel. That's a real BIG problem for a manual swap in a OBDII toyota, because as far as I know, the auto ECU's throw codes if you do the ol' "wire to neutral" trick during the swap. If you can live with a CEL, it could be done I suppose. According to the few, read, very few, t4r manual swaps I've read about, most guys just change the ECU and convert (or replace) the engine harness, which leaves a nice, clean, codefree swap. But then we're left with no odometer because the ECU calculates speed/distance electronically. You could then retrofit a odo/speedo from an SR5 and run a standard vehicle speed sensor system.... but I don't think the ABS system will like that too much. I can't tell you for sure if the late Limited models used a ABS ECU, but I'm somewhat sure the SR5's did. I'm sure it'd be an enormous PITA...
Going the other way would be much easier; buy a manual truck and add the VF3AM to it. Having an auto SR5 truck isn't a big setback, depending on the year; a bit of custom wiring or a full harness swap could get the manual trans in there. It could be done. The REAL hard part is making the AWD computer work. The going gets tough once you see how many wires the t-case has coming out of it, and how few wires are accounted for from the AWD ECU. That said, the electronics of the ordeal are MINDBOGGLING when you see just how many wires are involved.
Now, in theory if you did manage to sort the wiring and electronics, physically putting the transmission in is a piece of cake. You need a clutch, flywheel, bellhousing, a bit of reworking to the driveshafts, perhaps a new transmission mount... and a nice shiney TRD shifter. Even better still, the VF3AM has a gear on the input shaft and a fitting in the housing for a standard toyota vehicle speed sensor... identical to the ones that come in every '96-2002 SR5 model 4Runner. How 'bout that eh?
The cliff notes are that the VF3AM would bolt right into pert near any 3rd gen 4Runner and onto the back of an R150F or A340F (think about it, why have two different transfer cases or tcase configurations when you can just make the back half of the trans the same?). I know they bolt together because I had an R150F and a VF3AM, bolted together on my garage floor. The problem is making the AWD ECU work in a retrofit install if you didn't have a masters in electrical engineering... which I lack.
So to your question; is it possible?
In the words of Tommy Lasorda:
"The difference between the impossible and the possible lies in a man's determination."
I feel like spilling my guts, so this is what I know:
The vehicle speed on all AWD 'runners with the digital odometer (which IIRC, is all USDM t4rs AWD Limited +99 models), is calculated by the ECU using the ABS speed sensors on each wheel. That's a real BIG problem for a manual swap in a OBDII toyota, because as far as I know, the auto ECU's throw codes if you do the ol' "wire to neutral" trick during the swap. If you can live with a CEL, it could be done I suppose. According to the few, read, very few, t4r manual swaps I've read about, most guys just change the ECU and convert (or replace) the engine harness, which leaves a nice, clean, codefree swap. But then we're left with no odometer because the ECU calculates speed/distance electronically. You could then retrofit a odo/speedo from an SR5 and run a standard vehicle speed sensor system.... but I don't think the ABS system will like that too much. I can't tell you for sure if the late Limited models used a ABS ECU, but I'm somewhat sure the SR5's did. I'm sure it'd be an enormous PITA...
Going the other way would be much easier; buy a manual truck and add the VF3AM to it. Having an auto SR5 truck isn't a big setback, depending on the year; a bit of custom wiring or a full harness swap could get the manual trans in there. It could be done. The REAL hard part is making the AWD computer work. The going gets tough once you see how many wires the t-case has coming out of it, and how few wires are accounted for from the AWD ECU. That said, the electronics of the ordeal are MINDBOGGLING when you see just how many wires are involved.
Now, in theory if you did manage to sort the wiring and electronics, physically putting the transmission in is a piece of cake. You need a clutch, flywheel, bellhousing, a bit of reworking to the driveshafts, perhaps a new transmission mount... and a nice shiney TRD shifter. Even better still, the VF3AM has a gear on the input shaft and a fitting in the housing for a standard toyota vehicle speed sensor... identical to the ones that come in every '96-2002 SR5 model 4Runner. How 'bout that eh?
The cliff notes are that the VF3AM would bolt right into pert near any 3rd gen 4Runner and onto the back of an R150F or A340F (think about it, why have two different transfer cases or tcase configurations when you can just make the back half of the trans the same?). I know they bolt together because I had an R150F and a VF3AM, bolted together on my garage floor. The problem is making the AWD ECU work in a retrofit install if you didn't have a masters in electrical engineering... which I lack.
So to your question; is it possible?
In the words of Tommy Lasorda:
"The difference between the impossible and the possible lies in a man's determination."
Last edited by Keros; 10-23-2009 at 07:06 AM. Reason: Did I say 2004? I meant 2002...
10-21-2009, 02:29 PM
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Thanks for the input Keros.
I wasn't aware that the speed was sensed by the ABS on these rigs, I can see how that would pose a problem. The electronic aspect of swapping the ECU's is truly the hitch in this swap. You mentioned you've seen CEL free swaps, but I have yet to stumble upon one. Without a CEL free rig, I won't be able to smog it in CA, so unfortunately I think I will just avoid the swap at the moment.
I miss my 5spd Ext cab taco anyways, so I will probably pick one up in the future instead.
I wasn't aware that the speed was sensed by the ABS on these rigs, I can see how that would pose a problem. The electronic aspect of swapping the ECU's is truly the hitch in this swap. You mentioned you've seen CEL free swaps, but I have yet to stumble upon one. Without a CEL free rig, I won't be able to smog it in CA, so unfortunately I think I will just avoid the swap at the moment.
I miss my 5spd Ext cab taco anyways, so I will probably pick one up in the future instead.
10-25-2009, 10:17 AM
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not to hijack guys but I have what I believe is A340F transfer case that was swapped out of a 99 automatic SR5. I'm a manny tranny- it's not out of my ride.
It's basically a giveaway. It needs rebuilt -there was some legitimate reason it was taken out but I just inherited it.
you guys seem like the type that might actually be able to use it...over $2K from a stealership new.
It's basically a giveaway. It needs rebuilt -there was some legitimate reason it was taken out but I just inherited it.
you guys seem like the type that might actually be able to use it...over $2K from a stealership new.
12-24-2009, 07:11 PM
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Just to confirm the multi mode T case bolts on a 5 speed tranny. (Just tried it .)However it is a few inch longer than the normal case.
Last edited by maxigaz; 12-24-2009 at 07:12 PM.
12-24-2009, 08:12 PM
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12-25-2009, 11:03 AM
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The transfer case is about 3" longer IIRC. I have one of these cases and am planning on doing the conversion into my '97 4Runner. IIRC, the R150 is also longer than the auto tranny. So to put a VF3AM behind a R150, you will need custom driveshafts.
As far as I know, all V6 4Runners SR5 or Limited uses the ABS for sensing the speed. I know my '97 SR5 V6 with a R150 does. I believe the 4cyl runners use a VSS and I know Tacos use a VSS.
For this swap to work on a '96-'98 4Runner, you will also have to get a '99 and newer ADD actuator for the front diff. '96-'98 is vacuum operated and '99-up is electric. The 4WD ECU that controls the VF3AM also controls the ADD actuator.
As far as I know, all V6 4Runners SR5 or Limited uses the ABS for sensing the speed. I know my '97 SR5 V6 with a R150 does. I believe the 4cyl runners use a VSS and I know Tacos use a VSS.
For this swap to work on a '96-'98 4Runner, you will also have to get a '99 and newer ADD actuator for the front diff. '96-'98 is vacuum operated and '99-up is electric. The 4WD ECU that controls the VF3AM also controls the ADD actuator.
02-15-2010, 06:12 PM
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The vehicle speed on all AWD 'runners with the digital odometer (which IIRC, is all USDM t4rs AWD Limited +99 models), is calculated by the ECU using the ABS speed sensors on each wheel. That's a real BIG problem for a manual swap in a OBDII toyota, because as far as I know, the auto ECU's throw codes if you do the ol' "wire to neutral" trick during the swap. If you can live with a CEL, it could be done I suppose. According to the few, read, very few, t4r manual swaps I've read about, most guys just change the ECU and convert (or replace) the engine harness, which leaves a nice, clean, codefree swap. But then we're left with no odometer because the ECU calculates speed/distance electronically. You could then retrofit a odo/speedo from an SR5 and run a standard vehicle speed sensor system.... but I don't think the ABS system will like that too much. I can't tell you for sure if the late Limited models used a ABS ECU, but I'm somewhat sure the SR5's did. I'm sure it'd be an enormous PITA...
Last edited by CYi5; 02-15-2010 at 06:13 PM.
02-16-2010, 05:32 AM
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So if we have an automatic with the multimode and we are replacing the transfer case with a non- multi...
Will we have to rework the driveshafts?
Change the ADD controler?
How about CELs and the speedo?
Will we have to rework the driveshafts?
Change the ADD controler?
How about CELs and the speedo?
