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95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners 4th gen pickups and 3rd gen 4Runners

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Old 03-22-2007, 01:06 PM   #1
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Question Manual tranny 4wd selector question

Hi All,

This is a great board and tremendous resource for all Toyota truck and suv owners. I've lurked for a while and done a couple of mods that I've found great instructions for here in the forums.

I just had to have my clutch replaced (hate taking it in, but the 1.5 hour each way commute and 20 month old daughter don't leave me much free time for wrenching anymore), and I think that they may have misinstalled the 4wd selector shaft or return spring, but I can't remember 100% how it worked before (it's been about 5 months or so since I was even in 4H - for the same reasons as above).

I recall that when switching from 2H to 4H, I'd just pull the lever straight back and it would stay there - straight back from where it was while in 2H. After this clutch replacement, it now kicks out to the passenger side - below N and 4L. Does this sound right? Do other peoples' do this, too?

Here is the shift pattern before and after (please forgive my crummy diagrams):
Before (lever was where it says 4H):
.....4L
......|
2H...N
..|...|
4H _J

After (my lever now sits where the X is in this diagram):

.....4L
......|
2H...N
..|...|
4H _X


I'm not confident about the reassurances I'm getting from the shop, since they didn't route the vacuum hoses for the ADD correctly when I first picked the truck up - I'm thinking that they may have replaced a spring backwards or something. My concern is that with the lever where it is now, if stuff is jostling around in the cab, it my kick the TC into neutral at a bad time (plus it irks me to pay good money for work that's done wrong).

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

TIA.
W
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:13 PM   #2
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Well, your description of how things were before the new clutch sound correct to me, and that is how my 4WD lever operates. Sounds like they put something back incorrectly.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:04 PM   #3
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Thanks, Brian. I'm hoping a couple more people will see this and let me know as well.

-W
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:27 PM   #4
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In H4, the shift rails align in such a way that the tip of the shift lever can move sideways in the gaps in the rails in the T-case from the front drive rail to the hi-lo rail. When you move the lever from H2 to H4, you move the front drive rail forward, engaging the front drive in the T-case. When you move the lever from its indicated 4H position in the cab to the right (FROM the lower left corner TO the lower right corner of the shift pattern), you leave the front drive rail in 4WD, and place the tip of the lever in the T-case into the hi-lo rail. When you move the lever in the cab forward from there, you disengage the entire T-case (at position N) by moving the hi-lo rail BACKWARDS in the T-case (but the front drive rail is still in 4WD), and then re-engage the entire T-case in L as you continue pushing the lever to its most forward cab position, pushing the hi-lo rail further BACKWARDS.

Now, throughout that entire pattern, there is a spring in the top plate pressing the tip of the lever IN THE T-CASE toward the passenger side, meaning that rotating around the fulcrum, the cab end of the lever "springs" toward the driver side at the bottom/sideways portion of the shift pattern. If the lever inherently "springs" toward the passenger side inside the cab, then the spring's in backwards, which could be possible, if your T-case is like mine. If it just wiggles back and forth freely, either one or both ends of the spring have popped loose from the top plate inside the T-case, or the spring didn't get re-installed.

In any event, I really don't think it's a huge deal. There shouldn't be any inherent tendency for the T-case to kick into Neutral unless you bump the lever while it's at the lower right corner of the shift pattern while in H4. The main concern I'd have would be if it wiggles freely back and forth, the possibility that the spring could be completely loose down in the T-case and ready to wreak havoc should it get caught in the wrong place while the truck is in motion. Regardless, it's a super easy, quick fix. Pulling your shifter boots, followed by your T-case top plate, will verify what the problem is. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. Just be sure to replace the gasket or use some RTV when you put the top plate back on.

Hopefully that makes sense. I may have over-explained it, but I recently figured all that out when swapping out my T-case about a month ago, so it's fresh on my mind. I'm also terrible at explaining things concisely, so it may not have made sense at all.

But, without having ever done a clutch job, I can't imagine the necessity of removing the T-case top plate while doing a clutch job. The lever would probably need to come out for logistical reasons, but there's nothing obtrusive about the top plate. Others may correct me there, but I think that's odd.

Last edited by jdsdj98; 03-22-2007 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 03-22-2007, 03:00 PM   #5
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Wow!

Tons of description, and it sounds like it works just as I expect - Thanks JDSD!

I can't figure out why it would need to come out either. It's not loose, so I'm not concerned about that, but it does "spring" to the passenger side - in my mind (and your description) meaning that the return spring is pushing against the incorrect side of the lever - I've never taken it appart so I'm not sure if it can be turned around without removing that top plate or not. Also, as you mentioned, I'm not sure why it would need to be removed during a clutch job (I have had 0 problems with my tranny -even the shifting is still relatively tight).

Thanks for this info!

-W
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Old 03-22-2007, 03:04 PM   #6
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I have done numerous clutch jobs. It is easiest to remove both the tranny and transfer shift levers to make manuvering the tranny/transfer easier. It cannot go in wrong unless they dissassbeled the transfer case.

What you are describing is the lever sliding over in the gap as jdsdj98 described. This isn't normal, so id say that they didn't tighten the top plate down correctly. If it were too loose, it would slide pretty easy, making what you are describing possible.

The spring is difficult to dislodge, but i think that jdsdj98 is also right, and that if it is dislodged, it could serriously mess up your day.

Check it out.
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Old 03-22-2007, 03:15 PM   #7
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Just thought about the possibility that the top plate never came off, the spring is installed correctly, but the lever was re-installed on the wrong side of the spring. It's tricky getting the lever back in correctly, but I think it could also be possible to push the spring hard enough in the wrong direction when re-installing. With enough force the lever could still be installed correctly in the shift rails, but be against the wrong side of the spring, resulting in the spring pulling the lever in the wrong direction, rather than pushing it in the right direction. I'd be suspicious of that before suspecting the spring being installed backwards. Seems I recall that there really is only one way to install the spring, anyway, Check for that.

Also, if you pull the lever out of the top plate, be sure to shift the T-case into H4 first. That puts the shift rails into the easiest position for re-installing the lever.

Last edited by jdsdj98; 03-22-2007 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:32 PM   #8
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Hi Guys,

Thanks. I'm going to look at it tomorrow - my guess is that the lever has been reinstalled with the tip on the wrong side of the spring. That just seems the most likely as I can't imagine why they would have taken apart the T-Case, and it's entirely in keeping with the shoddy work (i.e. crossing the vacuum lines).

It's so nice to know that you can pay someone and expect them to do the job right.... or not.

But you guys rule!

Thanks again,
W
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:59 PM   #9
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Post what you find. I'm more of a shade tree mechanic and a lurker here, too, but just happened to have recent experience with this one. I'd like to know if I was finally able to help someone.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:32 AM   #10
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Thumbs up Another solution from the Yotatech members!

Hi All,

Just to wrap this up, jdsdj98's idea turned out to be the solution - the shift lever tip had been inserted on the wrong side of the spring - causing the tension to kick the lever out to the right in 4H. Probably not a big deal, but it seemed more likely to be moved accidentally with it sticking out. Plus, it just wasn't right. Took less than 20 minutes to fix (mostly because I armoralled the shift boot and cleaned it up - ughh there was some nasty junk down in the creases).

Thanks!
W
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:46 AM   #11
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did you go back to the place that installed the clutch and tell them they messed up?
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:08 AM   #12
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If you didn't, you should, and then go on a tyrade. Demand 20% back or something.
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:52 AM   #13
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FWIW, when I installed my crawler I built 1" aluminum riser blocks and created short throw shifters for my t-cases. On the stock case I did not reinstall the spring that is being discussed. I have been running it this way for almost a year and there are no ill side effects.

I understand that you want something right. So, this is about a 15 min fix. Just remove the 4 bolts in the top of the shifter and make sure the spring is installed correctly. It is fairly intuitive to determine which way the spring should go as there are 2 very small holes it sits in as well as a relief in the aluminum.

Steve at Sonoran Steel also has experience with this issue. Photo 74 on this link shows what I am talking about. The difference in my application is that I left the spring out entirely.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:19 PM   #14
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after reading this post I decided to go and see why my shifter wobbled back and forth in 4Hi. Sure enough, the spring was out of place. I've been using it like that since I bought the vehicle and never knew what was going on.

So after putting in back in place, now the shifter now is pushed to the driver side when in 4 HI. Is this correct?

Click the image to open in full size.
Is the shifter supposed to go on the flat side straight (left side)of the spring in the shown photo? I think so, but want to ask those who know for sure. thanks
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Old 04-25-2007, 08:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaugh View Post
now the shifter now is pushed to the driver side when in 4 HI. Is this correct?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaugh View Post
Is the shifter supposed to go on the flat side straight (left side)of the spring in the shown photo?
Yes.
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Old 04-25-2007, 08:48 AM
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